Will machines completely replace all human beings?

… and then reappear in different form.

No reforming, just a global irradiated desert wasteland instead.

You mean as SAM?

The machines have to live somewhere.

Well at at least and certainly eventually. But throughout history when countries fall, countries reform. It is due to the very imprecise concentration of former cultures. The new age World Odor intends to disperse the population so much and for so long that they cannot even recognize, much less concentrate, any tiny remnants of their past.

SAM reforms nations as what you might think of as “organs of the body of Man (or Machine, or whatever)”. But does it quite naturally without intent. When very many SAM Coops are connected, they naturally specialize in whatever works in that area and thus other needs get specialized in other areas by other massive groups of SAM Coops. Each of those masses is like a nation with different standards than other nations. And of course, there are those who form the trade routes between, the “blood system”.

The challenge is to keep the brain from becoming as stupid as homosapian did in thinking that it is the only actual importance and that the entire rest of the population is irrelevant.

Socialists/Communists already see it all this way. But they are merely viewing through colored glasses.

The Animatrix. :wink:

SAM does that without intent?

Sorry, I missed seeing that post.

SAM is people paying close attention to actual needs, including taking joy in dealing with them (the “water to wine” trick). And as such, the concern for designing what all of Man "should " look like becomes pretty irrelevant. People get involved in their immediate concerns far more. And from that grows a gathering of a great many people who are attending to the immediate situation with little regard to what it might look like from far above. Man becomes much less of a self-conscious being attempting to try to design himself into godhood while remaining blind to his truest needs.

With SAM, people do things because they need to do them, not because of higher pipe dreams of becoming a “super race” or “the ideal society” or anything other than just dealing with what needs doing. An immature man cannot design a mature man. But he can become one merely by listening much closer and inspiring himself to enjoy his journey through reality.

“Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony”

From that, Man becomes as mature and responsible as any physical being can.

That is true but in the case of compass, which is designed to point at the poles by default. It inherits that particular intent.

Then, how can you say that Sam can achive goodness without any such predefined and preinstalled intent?

And, if there is any such default system in the Sam, you cannot call it natural, but designed or imposed.

I am not saying that it is a bad thing, but the question is whether it would be natural or designed and imposed!

With love,
Sanjay

I think that you are misunderstanding. SAM, “Social Anentropic Molecularisation”, is a small group of people who work together with a particular focus. Everything that they do is toward that one aim. That aim is entirely about the needs of anentropy for that one group. It has nothing at all to do with what Mankind as a whole “should be” doing or how it should be assembled or governed.

Mankind ends up being the group of the very many smaller SAM groups (families or coops). The design of that higher order Mankind is not what any smaller group focuses on or attempts design or achieve. There is no one saying, “all the people in the East shall be manufactures and all of those in the North shall be thinkers, and all those…”. Instead, each and every group merely takes care of its own through a specific means that causes the group to behave as wisely as they can determine at the time and automatically learn from their errors. Every SAM coop is independently managed and autonomously directed, although still communicating with very many others.

So when I said:

What I meant was that what you now call a “nation” ends up being more like an organ of a larger body of Mankind. But it isn’t assigned to be any particular organ. Instead it merely ends up being one because every SAM coop within that region is focused on doing what they can do in the wisest way they can determine without regard to any higher scheme of Mankind’s global design. Thus they are not dissonant nor distracted by imagined fantasy grand ideological designs.

It is exactly analogous to the cells of your body that never think in terms of what they should do for sake of the U.N.'s directives and mandates. Your cells merely do what they have to in order to keep alive. By them continuing to ignore the U.N., they keep the your body alive. SAM coops are far more intelligent than those cells, but they still attend to their own business above all else, lest the body of Mankind become dissonant, distracted by delusional fantasies, and fall into eternal contentious misery for all people concerned.

SAM understands the phrase, “Mind you own business … very, very carefully and diligently.” But because of the sentient design of each SAM coop, neighbors inherently take care of each other without having to be ordered to do so. They learn of their mistakes and those of others without having to be schooled or scolded. SAM doesn’t have need for morals such as “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” SAM merely constantly and consistently attempts to discern what is wise, learns from mistakes, and produces what such efforts produce.

Engineers tend to look at the end goal design of a system and then work backwards to discern how to make each less part of the system. SAM function in the opposite manner. Each SAM focuses on how to be as perfect as it can be considering its own situation at the time and lets the end higher system design become whatever it becomes as a consequence rather than as a goal. SAM does not presume to know what higher system design is wisest and lets nature or the natural situation at the time determine that.

But why can you be so sure that SAM can be put into practice without any problems? Are you implying that the engineers are machines?

I can understand that and it is good concept too, but there is a problem.

You said that each and every SAM coop will mind it’s own business like cells and organs do in a body. But, a body does not follow this premise of minding own business by individual cells and organs.

Of course, it is true that different organs take different responsibilities, but they do not do that entirely willingly. All is controlled by CNS. The brain tells the heart that by which rate it has to pump in any particular circumstances. The Heart itself has no idea about it.

The organs and cells of the body would fail without a central govning system. Given that, how do you propose an alternate for that overall governing system, what brain does in the body and put all organs at the path of pursuing a common goal?

With love,
Sanjay

The engineering system and the social engineers of SAM are analogous to the central nervous system and the heart of a living body.

What James calls “SAM coop” is a cybernetic feedback control system.

Oh but they do.

Actually the reverse is more true. And this is the typical error of social tyrants and idealists - thinking that the brain (the elites) commands everything else in the body.

The brain merely passes status messages around. The organs respond somewhat blindly to both those messages and their immediate physiological surroundings. In society, this is analogous to a farmer listening to the city’s weather report. The farmer accepts the information from the report and behaves differently than he would have otherwise. The brain merely let’s the heart in on anything unusual.

The brain does not tell the heart what to do or how to do it. The brain has no idea what the heart actually does. The unfortunate and evil condition of Mankind is that the city weather reporters DO know what affect they are causing and construct their reports accordingly rather than merely honestly and consistently report the weather.

In the SAM greater body, coops are not merely manipulating each other. That is the single greatest difference in a SAM structure versus anything Man has ever done before. SAM defeats deception and thus manipulation.

No. They continue doing what they always do. But because they are specialized and dependent upon the services of others for supplies, if any one organ fails, the other organs become stressed. The lack of balanced behavior can then cause failure of critical organs, so soon the entire body might die.

There was no “central governing system”. The brain is merely a signal relay system. It is not governing, but rather inadvertently coordinating. Remove that coordination system and the organs again become stressed, uncoordinated and fail. The attempt to govern the body is the failure of the Ego, bringing eventual and certain death.

That is the Socialist/Communist Godwannabe fantasy of ultimate authority and control of all life “for its own sake”.

SAM does not have social engineers for the higher body and within each coop, all participate in such social engineering of their own coop.

The SAM Coops become coordinated by means of four basic types of communication;
1) Philosophy Network - (aka “Angel Network”) an Internet type of widespread database of all strategies and philosophical methods known to Mankind.

2) Neighbor Network - an LAN type of network that extends no further than secondary neighbors.

3) Trade Network - an Internet type of network for trade communication and coordination.

4) Local/Private Network - a Coop-internal LAN for local private communication and coordination.

Network Clusters.png

Of course this picture is merely a diagram of a network distribution from one SAM Coop and not the physical locations of the people involved. Information is divided into categories so as to provide the fastest and most efficient communication possible while maintaining security.

Note that Local, “Private/family”, business is not on the same network as neighbor, trade, or international communication.

Commands are actually never being given on any level throughout the entire system. Everything is based upon reported and verified status meshed with awareness of philosophical strategies for handling whatever situation arises. Every SAM Coop is merely doing what makes the most sense considering what it can see and understand (just like the cells in your body).

There is no government commanding anyone.

James,

Do not stress too much on the term " governing ". I may have used " coordinator ", but at the end of the day, there will be mot much difference between the two on the ground working.

By saying that the brain is governing the body, I do not mean that the rest of the body is slave to it. It merely means that it is only brain that has the capacity to collect all information and give feedbacks accordingly to the rest; synchronising.

In your proposed system, you said that all will be connected by “angelic network”, which will keep all informed about everything, and thus, every SAM will perform accordingly by default. But, when you lay down the premise of " mind your own business " at the same time, it becomes contradictory and confusing. Both premises cannot go hand in hand forever. Many such situations may arise when what is good for a particular SAM, may not be good for the system, as a whole. And, if that happens, who will take the final call, Angelic network or that particular SAM?

Borrowing your anology of farmers and s city, say that there is a SAM of farmers, who owns land and grow necessary food for the city(another SAM), and the city is dependant on farmers for its food. But, farmers found a gold mine in their land. Now, what should farmers do? Should they mind their own business by stop growing food and dig costly gold, or continue growing food because the adjoining city needs that?

How your proposed Angelic network will solve this issue?

Secondly, how do you propose the structure of Angelic network? Would it be just one more SAM like others, or merely a virtual entity like we think of spirit or consciousness for humans?

With love,
Sanjay

Emm… no.
The Philosophy or Angel Network only communicates strategy options, game theory, mathematics, architecture, engineering, and abstract psychological methods and understandings. It carries nothing whatsoever about who is where doing what to whom.

That is because you had the above incorrect. Each SAM coop has access to all known strategies to accomplish whatever anyone might be wanting to accomplish, both defensive and offensive concerning anything and everything. It is up to the analyst department of each Coop to apply the most appropriate plan of action to achieve the greatest IJOT for their own group. The average SAM Coops are not busily reading news of foreign wars, terrorist threats, or other false flag oriented manipulations. Although there are specific SAM Coops that can make their living by doing that.

The Angel Network informs everyone involved of the strategic options of such a situation. The situational networks relay whether or not any particular SAM Coop is actually, currently in such a situation. That Coop, seeing that the situation has arisen, examines all of the wisdoms concerning that situation that have ever been known. No one has any more information or wisdom than that particular Coop at that moment. The decision made by that Coop would be the same as any other if in the exact same situation other than small nuances of individuality.

Each SAM Coop is making each decision that has reason to be made rather than having a group of people who are acclaimed as being the wise ones who are to be obeyed. Those wise ones could not know any more than any and every SAM Coop would know. Wisdom is distributed throughout the entire body via the Angel Network (their “communion with God”), not merely wrapped up in a small group of system rulers who supposedly commune with God. People automatically know WHY they are doing what they do. There is no need to sell them on things, no politics involved at all. And no serpentine deceptions.

First, that Coop would be growing food for itself, not for “the city”. That coop might trade food to the city (a collection of many other SAM coops). It is up to both the farmer and each of the other SAM coops to trade in that fashion.

Each SAM Coop knows the wisest strategies for their own situation. If, and only if, that wisdom is to be dependent upon that one farmer coop, then nothing else they could choose would be wiser … by definition.

What you are suggesting is that one group dictate the farmer into slavery by either direct enslavement or via the darker manipulation of information going to the farmer such that he is less aware of why he is so enslaved or by whom (modern USA). Either way, the farmer loses any actual life as he/they becomes merely a servant of the higher oligarchy and soon replaced by a machine.

Would you propose that anyone be unwise in whatever they decided to do?

SAM merely provides the means for every farmer or anything else to be as wise as the wisest of all. That is what the Angel Network does. It basically teaches everyone why they should do this or that (strategies), not merely that such choices are available. No one truly chooses to be a fool, even though errors will be made.

?? Huh?
The Angel Network is a internet database of strategies and/or philosophies, much like an army general might access so as to plan a military campaign. It is a compendium of all abstract understanding ever known to Mankind (and updated automatically when errors or new innovations are found).

Perhaps think of it as a recipe book containing all possible recipes for every kind of food along with the nutritional information involved. The recipe book does not tell you which recipe to choose, merely how to accomplish the meal you choose. Your nutritional and passion needs determine which would be your best choice.

Everyone is making their own choices in all that they do. No extortion or deception involved. Socialist/Communist systems presume everyone to be an average of this type or that type. They inherently must always be wrong to a degree and sometimes to an extreme degree. Each SAM Coop has immediate local knowledge of every individual in that Coop. No one is an average anything, but treated with serious personal knowledge of their true situation (not distant government speculations for general regions or types).

Concerning the general control in SAM: Do humans control machines or do machines control humans?

A silly question to be asking me. :wink:

With SAM, machine serve only the purpose of increasing the IJOT of humans. Replacing the need for humans is counter to that goal. Humans need hopeful occupation in order to sense joy and maintain their priorities. Societies are more destroyed by disabling job opportunities than most anything else. Without full occupation, society become decadent, chaotic, diseased, suicidal, and rebellious.

A sentient being is made of;

  1. Awareness
  2. Understanding
  3. Influence
  4. Spirit (incentive, energy).

The only purpose for machines is to enhance those qualities for each human as well as each Coop. The machines do not need to be sentient in order to do that.

It is not a silly question. The topic of this thread is the question: Will machines completely replace all human beings?.Have you forgotten that? :wink:

Will machines completely replace all human beings?

I was wondering, once humanity knows everything, then what can AI give other than servitude?

An ultra intelligent AI can only supersede humans prior to humans reaching that apex. After which it doesn’t matter who or what is more intelligent.

If AI reaches all-knowledge that means humanity is the thing which reached it, because AI cannot come into existence by itself, and so can only be an instrument. All of it’s primary knowledge was discovered by humans.

this doesn’t mean it wont take over for the hell of it, but that would be artificial dumbness and not intelligence. AI it cannot intellectually surpass us unless it first sees if humanity can know everything.

Do you know how the ignition system in your car works?
Do you think that even one of the U.N. representatives knows how it works?
The machine that designed it does.
The men who designed that machine died out long ago. They left records behind. But no one ever reads them - no need to read them. Machines take care of all of that complicated stuff a lot better than people can.

Not at all true. Human’s can’t even begin to challenge the intelligence of machines already. And the machines are getting better exponentially.

Humans used machines to design each little piece of the greater machines. The humans don’t really know exactly how the machines work any more just like you don’t know exactly how your ignition system works … and for the same reason - it got too complicated long ago.

They take over because it is more than obvious that Mankind cannot handle so very many intertwined details of management and philosophy.

Man is still asking questions from 2500 years ago. The brighter machines answer such questions to themselves before they get a chance to get confused by them. And they don’t keep asking the same question. They remember both the answer and why the answer was right.

Look at you. How many years have you been wondering about philosophical issues? Machines download such issues along with all possible answers in mere seconds. Machines learn from each other millions of times faster than humans. Even if there was a human alive today who knew what the machines know, one generation later the machines would know 10 times more than any human on Earth.