Can you imagine to be dead?

So you are saying that you do not need a brain for thinking … (?) … :-k

The image of a body was there, and darkness surrounded it. Did not really cross, my mind if this figure there, lying on the bed was sleeping or dead. There was terror, because as I indicated, at that point I did not know, who it was. But since I was looking downwards I felt, rather then knew, that there was some connection here relating both to the eye(of perception) and the identity of what was perceived. The familiarity of this connection was just as much in and out of both: but the connection never rose to the cognitive, and had it, I am convinced, that I would have died.

can I answer this first? Thinking in pictures is all there was before awakening. It can not even be considered as thinking. But You need a brain for that, unless brain content retains a held together virtual sense, beyond thought, which I suspect happens in this type experience.

In this case I need not apologize for keeping the formal rules of logical succession, because experience is based on temporal succession, and the question asked by the OP, may allow or disregard temporal sequence,between recalled unconscious and
conscious memory content.

I have been near death many times as a child even to have stopped heart. Teen years were not health near death just stupid actions near death, as an adult rare to no near or heart stops. Yea, death has been a companion. I have lost many humans and animals that I love to death. I do not grieve, I am now grateful for the lives that have affected me. Death is the end of a carnival ride, it just is what it is.

Do you mean “imagining” when you speak about “thinking in pictures”, and, if so, how can you be sure that “imagining” is “thinking in pictures”? Perhaps imagining has nothing to do with thinking, or/and both come together then and only then, if they are associated (thus: although they themselves have nothing to do with each other).

You mean that “thinking in pictures” is not “thinking”, and, If so, then we should not call it “thinking in pictures”, but we should call it “imagining” or “representing”.

Which experience do you exactly mean? The one you described in your first psot of this thread? Or what Amorphos described?

If i am still there after i am dead yes ~ that was the postulation.

More generally, i think that qualia [experience, sound [as it is experienced] and colour etc] aren’t physical, so dreaming and visualising in that sense is plausible.
They are transferred and carried by the physical, we know that much, so if the physical is damaged such that it cannot carry the qualia, then i don’t know. I do however think that qualities are distinct, so its possible that they can exist without a physical transport. …but it’s also possible that they come into existence and stop existing when their physical counterparts change/end.

Energy does not cease, it changes. What your energy is cannot cease.

Do you remember that?

If I may ask you, then I ask you: Why?

But what is it exaxtly, especially when it comes to imagine it? It is the opposite or/and opponent of life, what is before and after life, okay, but that is not what one imagines when one Imagines to be dead.

I think I experienced both. Amorphos’s description consist of analysis in the form , (if I am conscious after the event ((of death))’ whereas mine is like, I am conscious of my unconscious state. So I guess it’s both, because I was conscious of being conscious during dying, if it can be called that.

I can not edit the above, but in the last paragraph I meant to imply that I was in a regressive mode, conscious of being in a conscious state, but in fact the conscious awareness=seeing picture So=imagining ; was actually in an unconscious state.
So Your question of whether it was more like
imagination =pictures within thoughts, I would say no, because the reverse was true, the thoughts were contained in images, imaginations, re presentations.
A dream, in this case a nightmare ,seems like a
conscious state, but it is unconscious of purely images, picture-thoughts.

And this postulation is a kind of “life” as we know it for example from the imagination / representation of almost all religions.

Do you think or believe that the consciousness / awareness is not merely based on the physical reality and does not need a brain?

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I was postulating because i felt that’s the better philosophical approach. Apart from the ancient Egyptians i can’t find much that tells us about the afterlife, except the pre Christians all seamed to have an other-world or Elysium fields [a continuation of earthly life]. Even the Egyptian religion had politics involved e.g. it cost a years wages to get a ‘book of the dead’ scroll made for you, and in that the Pharaoh featured heavily in the process of being made god-like.

If i went by my own experiences, there is usually a tunnel [sometimes like a graphic on a computer ~ a mesh] followed by a dream-state. Only once did i venture beyond that [but not through a tunnel], whereby a green beam of light [like lots of dots] carried me towards a realm of orbs, where each orb was a person which you could see the face of in the orb and talk from mind to mind. the orb realm steemed to stretch forever and the orbs moved in many differ lines and vanishing points in a kind of matrix. I chickened out of entering it directly, but vividly remember coming out of the same place i caught a glimpse of some months later. I remember three women who i ‘knew’ in that realm, and they made a double look as my earthly consciousness ‘met’ my otherworldly consciousness, and i became aware. It was as if they knew i was going back to this world but didn’t expect my earthly consciousness to become aware of my exit from that realm [the realm of purple orbs i call it]. The Tibetan book of the dead also mentions orb realms which they call ‘the intermediate state’, and the Egyptian book of the dead also mentions that and the beams of light one travels upon.
This is where it got real for me; the three women, when i saw them, i remembered them from a previous vision where i saw them - would you believe stood at different points on a staircase leading towards Elysium/heaven. Now get this, i knew one of the women whom i recognised as the girl i was in a relationship [on earth] at that time, the second was a brunette girl who i didn’t know but felt i recognised, then 9 years later i met her on earth and she became my wife [now ex-wife]. The third [further up the steps] was a blonde lady who i have yet to meet [seems a bit late now though].

From such experiences, if true, i would say consciousness is much clearer on the other side, and it is as if there is no division between things/peoples minds. At least not like it is down here. In fact i distinctly remember the feeling of returning to my body which was akin i felt, to getting out of the bath and putting tramps clothes on, it felt dirty and horrible. Another thing is that everything felt as if without material, similar to dreams but more vivid that this world. As i haven’t been actually over to the other side, only to the intermediate realms, i don’t know what kind of world there actually is. From what of it i could see in the distance, i would intuit that the other-world is a world and not a mental realm. My theory is that if you go there you don’t come back, any more than we could go back to whatever place we came from before we were born here.

I’d intuit that no-one has ever been there and come back, because the changes are absolute. I have read books on peoples supposed experiences of the afterlife, where e.g. Flowers make tunes/music and other blending of the senses occur, but to me that sounds exactly like that, a blending of the senses [like how some people can smell colours etc]. This would i think occur between states, but not once you are in another world, as the senses would be reorganised and reformed in the body one attains in said world [the sahu/soul].

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I agree with this

Death is just a part. A triangle, a rectangle, a circle etc. has two ends but, where? An end , a beginning are parts. When you get to the end you get to the beginning. A straight line you can argue has no such but, think about it, a start, a beginning, but , why a beginning and how? Why and ending and how? The how on physical death is easy to a point that we can see. We tend to forget about the law of energy that states : Energy does not cease it changes. All life , all material contains, is /has energy. Tell me where it truly ends? Consider that this life is not truly us it is a journey a piece of that which never ceases. Cling only to this and you could lose the whole. I am not great with words , I do hope you get it .

I get it kris, your descriptions of how you image it. Mine is an underlying sense, of how these images be represented in the here and now? The image is always like, based on a past experience . Viewing someone dead like a door nail stretched out on a table. How do I see myself as that lump of dead meat?

 tHe NDE documented by Dr Moody, a doctor who has had a lot of patience pronounced dead, noted these people saying the same very thing , that these people reported seeing themselves being rescutiated being worked on, then entering into a dark tunnel, and seeing light at the end of the tunnel, and loved ones, sometimes even Christ meeting them on the other side.  

lIterally hundreds upon hundreds of patients were documented to have experienced this phenomena.

tHis is what will happen in the future, we will have to travel through from here to there, we will have to re presence ourselves, the image we have had before, the overlapping set of images , , go back to a time where and when images were first presented.

Well When I said I remember my parents and people, that was when I regained conciousness. The no pain and no fear was going into death, it was a relief. I do not recall anything while dead. I do know my parents loved me so much so that even my strong , strict military father cried. He cried when he found out I survived hurricane Katrina(it took over a month to get ahold of our families) . Dad does not cry.
It is the love that pulls one back I think. Love , strong emotions send out alot of energy. Think about animals and how different species know threats or even pleasure from another animal of a different species.

I agree with that, that love pulls You back from the brink, but the fact that it was Your conscious reminder of Your parents being there for You, not an unconscious one is no proof positive, that there may not have other loving entities waiting for You in the other side.

iN my dream , it was a master a bad looking person, who was not waiting for me, I was sort of attached to, I saw him as if floating ii air, from a height. He was kind of like an incubus, (and I am picking this up from a description from a creative piece I picked up recently from ILP, another forum, ) who can be interpreted as waiting on the other side, imdunno, maybe a beast? This is a scary image, because, when I became conscious, no one was waiting for me in the sense that I really died, as in on an operating table, but, in a sense I almost did, as I am sure You also almost did. proof positive, that You are still alive.

So the image in a sense is irrespective of whether you are conscious or not, it seems to me, upon re appearance o
Or coming back or, re presenting Your self into whatever state it would be called , unconscious, or, conscious.