I agree with this
Death is just a part. A triangle, a rectangle, a circle etc. has two ends but, where? An end , a beginning are parts. When you get to the end you get to the beginning. A straight line you can argue has no such but, think about it, a start, a beginning, but , why a beginning and how? Why and ending and how? The how on physical death is easy to a point that we can see. We tend to forget about the law of energy that states : Energy does not cease it changes. All life , all material contains, is /has energy. Tell me where it truly ends? Consider that this life is not truly us it is a journey a piece of that which never ceases. Cling only to this and you could lose the whole. I am not great with words , I do hope you get it .
I get it kris, your descriptions of how you image it. Mine is an underlying sense, of how these images be represented in the here and now? The image is always like, based on a past experience . Viewing someone dead like a door nail stretched out on a table. How do I see myself as that lump of dead meat?
tHe NDE documented by Dr Moody, a doctor who has had a lot of patience pronounced dead, noted these people saying the same very thing , that these people reported seeing themselves being rescutiated being worked on, then entering into a dark tunnel, and seeing light at the end of the tunnel, and loved ones, sometimes even Christ meeting them on the other side.
lIterally hundreds upon hundreds of patients were documented to have experienced this phenomena.
tHis is what will happen in the future, we will have to travel through from here to there, we will have to re presence ourselves, the image we have had before, the overlapping set of images , , go back to a time where and when images were first presented.
Well When I said I remember my parents and people, that was when I regained conciousness. The no pain and no fear was going into death, it was a relief. I do not recall anything while dead. I do know my parents loved me so much so that even my strong , strict military father cried. He cried when he found out I survived hurricane Katrina(it took over a month to get ahold of our families) . Dad does not cry.
It is the love that pulls one back I think. Love , strong emotions send out alot of energy. Think about animals and how different species know threats or even pleasure from another animal of a different species.
I agree with that, that love pulls You back from the brink, but the fact that it was Your conscious reminder of Your parents being there for You, not an unconscious one is no proof positive, that there may not have other loving entities waiting for You in the other side.
iN my dream , it was a master a bad looking person, who was not waiting for me, I was sort of attached to, I saw him as if floating ii air, from a height. He was kind of like an incubus, (and I am picking this up from a description from a creative piece I picked up recently from ILP, another forum, ) who can be interpreted as waiting on the other side, imdunno, maybe a beast? This is a scary image, because, when I became conscious, no one was waiting for me in the sense that I really died, as in on an operating table, but, in a sense I almost did, as I am sure You also almost did. proof positive, that You are still alive.
So the image in a sense is irrespective of whether you are conscious or not, it seems to me, upon re appearance o
Or coming back or, re presenting Your self into whatever state it would be called , unconscious, or, conscious.
I remember a situation after having an accident when my consciousness and also the pictures came back. It was similar to what you can sometimes see in a movie. There was a white color, perhaps a white curtain, that slowly disappeared and let the reality come through.
Would you say that, actually, there are no beginnings and ends?
If one thinks a “beginning” or/and an “end”, then there are often also thoughts like the following two questions:
“How does a beginning begin?”
“How does an end end?”
Not sure if I can explain,
For a beginning there must exist something for it to begin just as with endings.
Energies are part of material. Take a rock, you can crush it to gravel or fine sand, you can heat it to melt or become an ash of type. It did not begin as a rock it is not ending as a rock. Yet what made the rock still is. Given the proper treatments it could be a rock again.
Our bodies and what we call souls/self had to have something to make them. The material and energy had to be there. They will be there after these bodies change. The energy of self cannot cease. Look at radio or TV. Those energies and how they go from a station to your TV or radio is a proof or example of this. The fact that we can measure the brain activity shows that what we are is leaving our bodies as energy. Yet we are. Now what happens to the energy? It can not end. It changes , adds itself to like or something. Parts may end here or there it may stay cohesive as a radio wave does. Either way your memories exist as part of some thing. A forming brain may take some of the energy. It may remain together in a form that is called spirit or ghost. Think about those two words and the ways we use them other than refering to our souls out of body. When you do that apply the thoughts back to the energy of self and think about radios, TV ,even light.
This is yet another idiotic thread.
No you cannot imagine being dead. Death is the cessation of sensation and feeling.
Being dead is a contradiction in terms.
Death cannot be experienced. it cannot be imagined as a thing imagined needs content. Death is without content.
That’s why they call it death.
Kris,
You may not be able to explain it perfectly but you get the gist of the issue.
With love,
Sanjay
@ The one who is so idiotic to think this thread would be “idiotic”.
The title of this thread is a question. And if you do not know what questions mean, then ask you therapist or your hairdresser (both are the same 
).
If one can imagine (imagine!) to be dead, then this one should tell us in this thread how and why this one can imagine to be dead. In other words: This thread is meaningful, and the reactions to it show very spectacularly that it is meaningful.
So you think what is without a beginning and without an end is a ghost or a spirit as a kind of energy or just energy itself.
As soon as we say, energy exists or some kind of energy, we think of it as a ‘thing’. A thing is a measurable entity, even brain waves can be measured. But what if things do not survive death? Is love a thing, can that be measured? Is love a form of energy?
Uum I guess my warning of maybe not being able to explain , was right.
To have a beginning there must be something already existing for it to begin. For something to end there must be something absorbing the matter or energy , changing but, same.
What came first, energy or matter or both are one?
Lev Muishkin
What of experiential qualia, and colour, sound etc qualities, do they not exist? It is true that if you change the physical values of information, then you change the corresponding qualities, but we know that in our experience those things can change yet the experiencer remains throughout the changes.
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Fundamentally there cannot be a prime mover, if creation exists by the universe [causally] or other e.g. God, for creation to exist it must have been created. Creation is thus eternal and outside of universe ~ prior to and after, and because it is eternal is must be ever present throughout the universe. This is why we see life being driven, the reason ‘why’ there is a desire for survival. Creation must be doing something simply by being there.
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If either way, if you agree there can be no prime mover, then all of causality has no original cause. Ergo when you attest that ‘Death is the cessation of sensation and feeling’, this may only refer to the causal aspects of reality, but there is always a reality prior to, and fundamental to it.
_
No matter how absurd it may sound, it is true.
Brain has nothing to do with thinking. No physical entity (as we understand physical generally/scientifically ) can think. Brain is merely a data providing center for mind to think. Mind cannot interact directly with what sense organs experience. Brain acts as a mediator between physical senses and the mind.
Thinking is just like breathing. One may say that we breathe from the nose because all air goes into the body through it. But, the actual act of breathing takes places in lungs, not in the nose. Nose it merely a raw material provider. The same is with the brain. It is also merely a sensory inputs provider, which serve the purpose of raw material for the mind.
with love,
sanjay
This tunnel which you experienced, exists in reality. It is known since ages. After the death, every soul has to go through it while returning to its native spiritual realm. It can also be experienced through meditation. Both in Sufism and Hindu Sant-Mat, meditation is considered as willful and controlled dying. This may happen in the dreams too. The shape of this tunnel is curved like a new moon but upside down.
This tunnel is called Bunknal in Sant-Mat, which can be roughly translated as Crooked Tunnel. This is connector between Sahastrasar (7th plane) and Trikuti (8th place). The sufi names of these planes are Aalam-e-Jabroot and Aalam-e·Lahoot/Muslasi.
But, souls can go back there and come here again, either willingly or unwillingly.
with love,
sanjay
zinnat
Thank you for the information, it’s most interesting.
The tunnels were curved [as if they came down and towards you] as i saw them, so i suppose that could mean ‘crooked’. Can you tell me more about those planes? Is ‘Sahastrasar’ the dream level/type plane? So the tunnel goes from there to ‘Trikuti’, which would be the plane of visioning level awareness?
From what i can tell, there are many realms between this world and the otherworld, but no stories i have read have talked about the otherworld ~ except in glimpses of it. If we consider for example that the senses can get rearranged such that you can e.g. hear music from flowers. This sounds to me like a between place, and one which appears during transition rather than after full arrival in the next ‘world’.
This is the bit i don’t get, and i don’t know if eternity is not there in place of another world, or if there are other true ‘worlds’?
People sometimes say you can’t die in a dream… False. In a dream I was shot and died. All I saw of an afterlife was that everything became brilliant white. It was as if the colors of mortal existence went back to the totality of color–White. There was no tunnel. There were no images of Jesus or family and friends. I simply experienced the absence of all things personal and particular.
I’m fond of the Tibetan Book of the Dead and hope that those stages of afterlife purgation exist. Hope however does not align with my only dream of dying. It seems that in the dream I was erased as if I never existed. Maybe I misinterpret the white light. All I know is that in the dream of dying I ceased to be anything I was.