What's so bad about the New World Order?

Actually, the entirety of the British Empire recognizes the Queen as head if state. I mean, maybe the penguins on South Georgia Island don’t, but that’s another issue.

The British Commonwealth recognizes the Queen as head of the Commonwealth, but not as the head if states of each country… I know both India and Mozambique are Commonwealth Members who don’t accept her as head of state, and a few Caribbean countries are debating going Republic.

The US has full qualification to join the Commonwealth, but there us little point, WTO trumps it, and we don’t know how to play cricket, seriously, not a single one of us, so we would be no fun at the Commonwealth Games.

And I’m well aware about morality, I’m the forum’s go to guy on systems of ancient Ethics and Morality, as well as statecraft in general. Doesn’t mean I’m always right or knowledgeable about everything, but if someone is expected to know it in this area, it’s me. My old name Onasander was a pagan Platonist who wrote on military psychology and Just War Theory. Christianity didn’t develop in a void.

15 other states besides the UK have the Queen as head of state, namely Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Jamaica, Barbados, Bahamas, Grenada, Papua New Guinea, Solomon Islands, Tuvalu, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Belize, Antigua and Barbuda, and Saint Kitts and Nevis. Some of those states are actually quite important. As a tiny island, Britain could never really hope to match the military might of vast, monolithic continental empires like Russia or the USA (at least once they had caught up in industrialisation) but as far as soft power goes, nobody does it better.

My own opinion on morality is based on my experience. Pagans, for example, are very ethical people, and I have never met one who would consider abortion, because all life is sacred. Christians, on the other hand, sometimes think it’s ok to to kill people to stop abortion.

I know pagans who got their wives to have abortions, your just sheltered. We got alot if groups here, of every stripe… some intellectuals with radio programs, others crude as fuck.

And there are some graveyards in Carthage and Phonecia you should look into. Christians didn’t do that… Infanticide pops up equally mixed in pagan as well as “monotheistic” cultures, many Islamic countries actively encourage it, like Iran. China dies too, and they have a heavy Taoist and Buddhist core.

Also, some pagans were monotheistic. I know, strange concept.

But yeah, violence is always going to be associated with abortion/infanticide, as long as it exists. Its guaranteed to attract crimes of passion from fathers who just found out, out of the blue their wive just aborted their baby. Imagine walking around, thinking your going to have a child, happy… come home to the great news that she killed it without informing you. You got a Russian novel in the works with that opening plot. Its no different than having a German concentration camp… allies liberated the camps, became disgusted at the sight of death, dragged in local Germans who pretended to have nothing to do with it, or know what was going on, made to bury the dead.

How do you think a future liberator to the UK or America will take our abortion clinics? Wouldn’t they be right to drag us kicking and screaming to view the baby parts all over?

We more or less showed from our actions I’m WW2 a intention that locals should of resisted. We have WW1 international precedent excusing acts of assassinating commanders of genocide as a legitimate act of compulsion.

When people blow up or attack compulsion clinics, it’s very similar. Paganism and Christianity has nothing to do with it, it’s the degree of compulsion and their unwillingness yo allow a death camp nearby to continue to exist. We find this argument repulsive, but it also has legal supports to it from history and international law. Just liberalism absolutely must deny this reality at any and all costs.

We are all very wrong and sick in the head for allowing this sort of abuse, squashing human life, to go on. You can’t say your moral on one hand, yet denounce them in another, and yet speak of a older universal morality as well. Some people are moved to react, the paranoid schizophrenic especially… but is the root recognition that abortion clinics kill people is wrong? Nope… they most certainly do. Police and military likewise respond to threats as well. Its why it’s very hard to break the paranoid crowd of this fixation to target abortion clinics, it’s irrefutable at root, abortion clinics kill. Default, absolute default. How well can they reason beyond this? Not well. How well was WW2 for any side reasoned? Not well. Yet we essentially arrived at the same conclusion in mass, upon seeing these camps and the sick Nazi mentality up close.

When your able to see, some sights make you dizzy to the knees, like your going to hurl. Its not like a knife on the chalkboard annoyance, it’s sickening dispair. Fixates in your mind. Never leaves you, causes intense rage whenever you return to those thoughts.

It will never beveradicated from society.

And no… it’s impossible to stop 3D printers from printing… you can print a 3d printer from a 3d computer… motherboard is very primitive and simple. Guns are coming, increasingly over the next two generations. We already have plans on the net for them, a few printed out. Not precision, but it gets the job done.

Or the war will then shift as one towards it’s own citizens and there are clear signs this is happening everywhere. There are also countertrends, take the reduction in the USSR and other secession movements elsewhere. Where in history has power not been severely abused the more centralized it became? Where has being more degrees of separation from the ‘represented’ helped? Centralized powers have always wanted to surveile and control their populations, but they have never had the technological potential for both survellance and control that they now have. And let’s think for a moment who the players will be in the NWO and how their personlities will shape the world.

Why do you assume that a One World Government will have this policy?

Smaller nations have managed to make socialism work. These nations tended to maintain a high per capita income on either direct colonialism or indirect via corporation colonialism. Now that jobs are leaving these nations their economies are in trouble. Not as much as the USAs, but that has a lot to do with the global presence the US has had.

But it won’t cease to exist. Jesus provided perfect ideas for the control of populations, including his separate of church and state lecture. The monotheisms will continue.

Power without counterbalance corrupts absolutely. Nations and wars causes all sorts of problems, it’s true. One massively powerful government will solve us to empty shell lives.

Modern Paganism is not the same as ancient Paganism. Unlike monotheistic religions, with their holy writ, Paganism can freely evolve.

While morally repugnant, I would not compare abortion clinics with Nazi exrermination camps. That sort of thinking gets us nowhere.

The technology to print guns will develop apace with the technology to stop it. One can easily imagine a technology in the future that can detect when certain programmes are running somewhere, and jam them.

No, you can ruggedize electronics, prevent external detection, and we got plenty of 3D programs floating around bootleg on CD.

And ancient Paganism often was allowed to freely evolve, just as Christianity usually has. There are significant theological and philosophical approaches, for example, between the Catholic and Greek Orthodox Church in acceptance of Aristotle. Its to the point whenever I visit a Greek monastery I can’t mention any Orthodox theologian or Philosopher who wrote on Aristotle, as they see it threatening to their position on Gregory Palamas. I suspect you’d be interested in Gregory, given his influence on visual, Zen like meditation of seeing internal light patterns in the mind. It gets more complicated once you spread farther into the other holy sees, and even within the Catholic church you have radically different, competing schools. Same with Protestants… we actively induct foreign philosophies like Buddhism and Taoism into Christianity too now, be it Thomas Merton, a Catholic, or Seraphim Rose, Orthodox. The Orthodox are the slowest to change, but they are also the most aggressive in adopting eastern philosophies. These are the mainstream churches of Christianity. Its hardly stagnant. We are the ones who developed the big bang.

And comparing abortion clinics to nazi death camps is spot on. Its not a matter if political acceptance, but finding the correlates that drive people to violence… you gotta find the equivalent points in yourself. I’m not Muslim, I’m opposed to Jihad, but I try to figure our the mindset they act on, read their ideologies, why they say they are motivated. Its irresponsible not to investigate if your a philosopher, or act like it’s incomprehensible… they are human, so am I, so are you, it’s within reach. There really isn’t any difference whatsoever between a abortion clinic and a death camp… similar results, a structure dedicated to killing. Same for the sacrificial alters and burning of babies in the ancient world.

A question seemingly unrelated, but I was pondering… did they ever teach you the stars in the constellations, or did you learn how to make up astrological charts from scratch, or geometry?

I know Didymus the Blind was a accomplished writer on geometry… just, your emphasis on Paganism… usually it’s accompanied by a knowledge of geometry and the stars. How aware of you of this? I know you can’t just look up and see them, but you know how to draw them, their rough spacing? Can you put together a natal chart?

If not, I don’t think it be that hard for a friend to get some laminate paper with a design printed on it, cut it for you so you can get used to the format, run string through it to make a natal chart. You can learn basics of astronomy that way. Your approach to paganism has to always be in opposition to Christianity, but I figure if you learn more, you can rest your faith in it’s merits more, rather than opposition. I’m a Christian, but don’t have to bomb pagans, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists every time I mention my faith. I’ve rarely seen you mention your religion without doing the Father Ted “I hear your a racist” dace the British woman does in the background screaming about Greek immigrants:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=6zkL91LzCMc

Basically, the Cather does a childish impression of Chinese people, and is seen doing so through the window by a Chinese couple… he panics, runs outside to explain, but everyone already heard he was a racist… to his shock and horror. Then the lady in the background goes crazy, kicking and hollering, shopping bags all over the place. I take your rants against Christianity in a similar light… if you learned more about some areas outside mere texts, such as astronomy, maybe you can balance your emotional scope a bit, not feel so threatened?

This is really a question of “how much control do you want over your own life?”

You can get some benefits by ceding control to others. For example, constant police presence and surveillance will probably reduce violence and crime… but is that a good trade-off?

And the followup question is "if you accept that giving up control now is good, how do you know that it will still be good when the system evolves? ". Maybe it will deteriorate into something that you do not want. Is it worth the risk?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synoecism

That’s why I mentioned this Phyllo.

We’re talking about future technology here, with the ability to detect whenever a certain type of programme is being run in a given vicinity. I’m not sure this is so beyond the realms of possibility.

I wasn’t saying that Christianity doesn’t evolve, it clearly does. But it does so within the straightjacket of the Bible, and like all monotheisms tends to regard other branches of itself as heresy and, given the chance, will try to violently stamp them out. Paganism, however, is free to evolve in any direction without restraint, and to become anything at all, without having any problem with recognising other branches of Paganism as equally valid. This is the fundamental difference in mindset. Monotheism, with its belief in one god, has to also believe it is the one true way.

I agree that it’s a good idea to understand why people think that way, but this does not imply any sort of agreement. Abortion clinics are different to Nazi death camps in a number of ways. Firstly, and primarily, is the motive behind it. Secondly, the babies are not deliberately worked to death as slaves before being killed. And thirdly, abortion clinics are not staffed with sadistic guards who like torturing people.

I have never personally put together a natal chart but the maths is surely not beyond me. Natal charts do not require a visual diagram and can be read and interpreted just as easily as a list of numbers. Say that your Pluto was in 29 degrees Virgo, for example. I don’t need a diagram to show me this, as I’ve just said it. If you’re asking, however, if I can visualise or imagine what the sky looks like, the answer is no. I can’t visualise or imagine what anything looks like. I do, however, have a very good awareness of spacial geometry, but I’m not really sure why this should be relevant to Paganism.

Right, we should trust shitty people who overthrow democratically elected governments and the same people who got feminists to promote smoking cigarettes for young women. We should trust bad people with our lives and guns, the same corrupt people who fund oil interests overseas and approve of toxins in our foods…right…

We should become like britain, who produce tv shows even more inane and retarded than the us of a…shows like this…
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcVrm2dCf0s[/youtube]
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An ai promoting natural beauty, what a farce. The same people who obsess over “natural” beauty probably eat junk food everyday.
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Why not add china and retarded african nations in to the mix as well, so they can degrade our quality of life and remove our rights even further.

It’s possible. But it’s certainly not desirable unless you accept that you should only be allowed to do what “the government” approves.

I can’t see where a pagan would not be extremely skeptical about a one world government. Paganism has always been attacked by hierachial religions and cultures. That is,ones that are more hierarchical than pagan societies and groups. Paganism in general is more resistant to hierarchy than monotheisms. These religions are not about control and restriction in the way monotheisms tend to be and thus are problematic for control orientied, hierarchical cultures, whether corporate - which a one world government would surely be - or governmental. Once a giant bureaucratic monstrosity is in place they have absolutely no reason to pretend they give a shit about what you consider valuable. Just as they are losing interest now, after years of seeming cultivating individual freedom, they do not need Westerners anymore to be happy or thinking they are free. The have globalized their businesses and the West is slowly being ignored and there are less freedoms, more surveillance and more central control.

How could a pagan not be wary of this? It is precisely the opposite of a pagan culture where power is generally always temporary and earned. Some huge, cold machinelike corporation running the world. NO, thank you.
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I can imagine a pagan not being sure this is a bad idea. But a pagan who is not extremely wary, that is a hobbyist, who just wants her tarot cards and social media contacts around disconnected rituals. A kind of suburban playing around,while working some 9to5 office cubicle soul destroying job or living on disability and who does not really have to out there in the real world. When that one world government decides that blind people are less effective cogs in the machine and her ‘representatives’ are across an ocean and could give a shit about her opinions since they answer the the boards of directors of an oligarchy, she may find herself out on the street, selling her body, just as third world women, who never thought they would have to chose that option found themselves doing in when their US or USSR coached oligarchies took over the economy.

Why does a one world government have to be dictatorial? Why can’t it be federal, like the EU, which makes it a policy to devolve powers to the smallest local unit that can efficiently carry them out? Surely this is better than the current situation, in which states can go to war against each other? Why is it that half the world is on the breadline and the other lives quite well? It’s because of capitalism, and its channelling of resources into things like war and other useless pursuits, and the inherent inefficiency and waste in the system it creates.

History isn’t linear, it’s cyclical.

Smaller groups converge into larger ones based on share interests and later diverge into smaller ones due to internal conflicts.

There are indeed attempts to connect the world not only technologically, but memetically also - imposing the same memes (ideas) upon all politically governable entities (humans) by appealing to a common denominator they all share - humanity, thus humanism, but everybody who isn’t an imbecile and has a more profound sense of self that goes beyond such base categories as species would reject such a shallow identity imposed upon them.

Sure. As soon as police, military, and all government law enforcement agencies disarm themselves.
Or are you saying that guns should be banned for one group of people and not for the other group, and not only that, but the other group can also possess weapons as destructive as nuclear bombs which can level entire cities?
Do I really have to point out what’s wrong with that?

Indeed. Socialism is a sign that the country’s previous political/economic system was too successful so the country accumulated resources that it can spare… it is an indication of the country’s downfall.

EDIT: Maia is not a pagan, or did paganism become a new trendy, popular thing that wanna be rebels adopt in order to sound edgy, akin to emo and goth culture?

The twin scapegoats for everything … capitalism and Christianity.

Don’t other economic and political systems waste resources, have useless pursuits and engage in war?

She doesn’t like capitalism, but she wants a one world government, which will probably be run by America, which already owns most of the world. She must not know that America is capitalistic. Brilliant.

Interesting discussion from my POV. I have been thinking along the same lines since long.

I more or less agree with Maia that sooner or later humans would have no option but to form some sort of world government.

Having said that, I disagree with her presumption of Christianity/ monotheism having no role in that future order. I think that just like administration, political and economical issues, the issue of religion/faith will also be sorted out one day by some gives and takes within all major religions.

All religions would also have no options but to converge at same point one day. And also, the new world order is not possible without happening that in the first place either. That is a necessary precondition/event, which will pave the way of unification of the world in all other aspects.

And also, that may happen much earlier than we are assuming.

With love,
Sanjay

Why cant we just make a dna machine so people will stop being retards and clinging to their polidicks, religion, stupid tv programmes and weekly world news. We wont even need a world government, there will be no need for war if people stop being stupid baboons.

Instead of the dna machine we get walking vaginas who say the new world order is good. Shoot me now

Given the time spent , in this forum, and elsewhere, on rapidly escalating technology, it’s considerable, that the new politically viable programs are being analyzed by strategic computerized game theory, as much as any game theory which was used during the days of the Cold War and beyond. These theories opt for the best possible scenario, and it’s equally probable that , in this instance technology would trump popular opinion.

This was foreshadowed even as early as, 50+ years ago, in a little known French film ‘Alphaville’ where the scientific community were bound to programs regarding security issues. I disagree, whether the ethical notion regarding the coming world order, is open in the way it is thought to be. It may already have passed that stage.