Hunger

Reminds me of the chorus of an old song … something to the effect …"Freedom’s just another word for “nothing left to lose”

I’m statistically poor. Otherwise, I have enough–decent, warm apartment, good food. Meanwhile there are people in our city who are homeless. I have much to be thankful for. So how does one decide what is more than enough?

“I’m just a soul whose intentions are good.
Oh Lord, don’t let me be misunderstood.”–Eric Burden

I have plenty left to lose, but plenty more to gain through freedom. Freedom is more than just having nothing left to lose. It’s looking at the world around you and how bullshit it is and deciding, ‘you know what, I may not benefit from this, but if I can succeed, at least future generations can have better than I did and hopefully will be more appreciative for it if I truly do succeed.’

It’s something to gain for more than just myself, which is the appeal to me. I didn’t drag myself out of my darkened days for just myself, that would have been pointless, though I had to do it for myself to better be able to help others and the world around me. I did it for non-selfish means.

Of course charity begins at home. You have to take care of your own needs before you can tend to those of anyone else.
Consumerism does not teach this; it depends on the bloating of your hungers in order to sell products you often do not need.
I’m reminded of the 1980s when kids demanded expensive designer jeans and tennis shoes in order to fit in with their peers. Our family couldn’t afford that, so my wife ran up all credit cards out of peer pressure. The 80s reversed the 60s where individual expression determined what was bought. I don’t know where minds are in century 21, except that consumerism still reigns supreme, that is taught hunger trumps actual hunger.

Ierrellus,

Good question, Ierrellus.

The way I look at it, by taking an honest, in-depth look at the way other people live. We have to really “see” others, experience them. For instance, families living out in the street, and “feeling” and comparing their human experience to our own. Of course, I think it takes a sense of appreciation and gratitude for what we have. I don’t really see a whole lot of that these days. The more we have, the more we want.
Their seems to be such a “hunger” out there for things because of the inner hungers which aren’t satisfied or which were not often satisfied, because of the human fear which people experience and which they try to stifle and suppress with “things”.

I think that it is human consciousness and fairness (compassion and empathy for those who do not have) which can also decide what is more than enough. Our human intuition can tell us this but we have to be willing to first “see” it then to affirm it. But gratitude I think is the “missing link” here. We’re not often grateful because we are just not capable of seeing what holds “real” meaning in our lives.

Yes, it is a decision to “see” that we have more than enough, to voice that to ourselves, but the decision can only be made through conscious self-awareness and of those around us who have much less.

Maybe it’s akin to pain. Some have a greater threshhold (sp) for pain than others - perhaps some have a greater threshhold for living with less - and it being MORE THAN ENOUGH. It’s like the Charlie Brown christmas tree for me - simplicity in something is a beautiful thing - it’s in the eye of the beholder - sometimes less is more in a way I can’t quite figure out.

I also have a sense that when we can live with less we appreciate it more. Can we stuff and stuff and stuff our faces with good food and appreciate that more or less than when we eat more of what is good but eat it slowly and be more discriminate about what we’re eating? okay, I’m getting carried away here.

We need to learn to be more epicurean when it comes to everyting and I sense that having less allows us a better appreciate for what we do have but that’s just me.

I actually had and still have quite a bit to lose. When I first started down this path, I knew the Devil’s game already; I already knew the family member against family member, the friend against friend. Even closer to our perceived reality, I already knew that what I was getting myself into on the internet was attracting attention from various agencies around the world, both government and secret and I knew that they wouldn’t hesitate to make me ‘vanish’, if they thought they could, that they would seek to rip me away from those who loved me, ruin my life, drive me into homelessness and drive me into reacting in ways that would make people stop caring about me or to drop communication with me.

I knew that by making the choices I was making that I was putting my family and friends at risk just the same as myself and made my decision anyway. I live everyday of my life with the knowledge that the woman that I love; that I am en route to go sweep off her feet if I can, is in more danger than any other person I could ever care about or love because of my infatuation and my enemies.

And, I kept myself. I kept contact with people, I still have people that care about me and miss me and it becomes too widespread for these agencies to actually do what they want to do since enough people care about those people and would miss them, too, that it becomes too much clean-up to do and they’re not ready to play openly like that, at least not yet.

And then there’s you all, here, that I keep in contact with while homeless and recount my experiences with and who I continue conversations with as if my life hasn’t changed all that much and just taken on a fresh path; I made it align; and don’t think that wasn’t without intent on my part.

You all sit here, watching me go through life; through hardship; and not raising a finger to help. Not to judge, I didn’t ask any of you for help and I don’t intend to start. You also haven’t hindered my progress and I look at that; it’s not your responsibility to help me, either. But the fact remains that you sit here and watch and pay attention to more than most of you will admit to; not just to this message board, but to life in general, though certainly some members here do pay more attention to certain members and threads than they care to admit. Regardless, it keeps a line of communication open and steady enough to where if anything happened to me, you’d know about it. Whether friend or enemy, it would alert you that something happened. Either I died on the road in the cold or in nature due to some wild animal or some random thug, which is entirely possible but I also seem capable of handling myself through such situations already, or what you fear more actually happened, and I got wiped out for running my mouth against a system that hates to have loose lips around or loose ends flapping in the breeze. And, it chafes them.

I have more to lose than any person here, because I understand the gravity of my plight and appreciate all of the good given to me in my life to the fullest, more than any person here can truly understand. I’ve already lost everything, even the things I don’t have, yet; at least in vision and emotion and feeling. Something tried to kill me all away and failed substantially in the past year and a half; or multiple somethings, which is far more likely.

Also, in response to the question even though it wasn’t asked of me; when you react naturally to something in a violent seeming manner, then you know when it is more than enough. If you had ever been in such a situation where something has been more than you can handle without resorting to anger, impatience and violence, you wouldn’t even have to ask the question. If you’ve ever even pushed someone else to a breaking point or been there your self, you wouldn’t have to ask the question.

And, we only truly appreciate things more when we live with less because we have to. People today live in such excess that they lost sight of what it was like just 130 years ago. I just read a book about Butch Cassidy last night that highlighted some of the differences in what people go through then and now. They didn’t even truly know that what they had was less and lived off the land to an extent; weren’t afraid to go hungry or possibly freeze to death or get a bullet; at least not the people who had yet to be conformed by society into false living.

Realistically, when you have to live with less while so many others have more, or when you know you could have more, it does make you appreciate the more more, but then you realize that you’re not even living bare minimum like people did 130 years ago and nobody truly is living with bare minimum and yet everyone is ‘making only enough to make ends meet’ because of what they choose to spend their money on, bills, etc. That makes me appreciate it more coupled with the fact that I have to do without the luxuries that I should have based on the resources available to the world at large. I should have the same things as everyone else, regardless of my appreciation for them.

And when you realize that appreciating things better does give better life satisfaction, you also realize that others don’t truly appreciate what they have and the only way to share your brand of wealth is to take it all away.

At least, that’s what I’ve, personally, come to realize. And, when you already appreciate life better than other people, even in luxury, you begin to get a little bit too angry enough to burst out of being angry to become calculating, instead, and thoughtful. And, if you have half a brain, you put off a cheery air, seem simple and stupid enough; maybe crazy; until the actual action begins to hit and then you become as dangerous as you actually are, and surprise the people who sorely underestimated you and that’s what makes you more than dangerous; it makes you perilous.

Also, that deep appreciation of life and what exactly it is that you stand to lose, makes you lot more dangerous than your average idiot when you use your intellect correctly; and infinitely more dangerous than any evil thing could be. It’s what makes legends like The Lord of the Rings and Aragorn seem perfectly plausible; that one man can be worth the weight of thousands of warriors in battle; that just by name alone, can be feared more than the might of an army. One man.

Phred is such a Jesus, and Kris is such a Jew.

From “Bear Creek 1998”

The best way to stop a revolution
Is to put it up for sale.
The market place solution
Is that fads will never fail
To bring in the customers daily
To buy what they cannot do
While the video, voyeur security
Sucks the life right out of you.

This is what happened to the youth movements of the 1960s. It’s also what century 21 is all about in the USA.

“Buying and spending, we lay waste our powers;
Little we see in Nature that is ours.”–Wordsworth

Without a sense of being part of Nature, we are imprisoned in our heads. Commerce gives us that sense of belonging by having, not by being. It is no wonder that lust for having creates have nots.

I admit I’m an old hippie. But I haven’t seen here in the USA a better, or even an equal, sense of brotherhood than that expressed by the young people of the 60s. Consumerism dulls all ideals eventually. It is taught hunger that fits the ego better than natural hunger.
The wealth disparity now in the USA is 98 % poor, 2% wealthy. Doesn’t that prove there is something wrong with a system that allows this to happen?

“98% poor, 2% wealthy” - really?

Yes. This amount of income inequality has not been experienced for 100 years.

Well, you can draw the line wherever you want so you can get practically any number … 98%, 50%, 15%.
But by saying that 98% of the US is poor, you lose all credibility because even a cursory investigation shows that much more than 2% of the population is well-off and comfortable.

Also : Poor is the US is much different than poor in Bangladesh.

I’m not discussing Bangladesh.
About the wealth disparity in the USA, just google “wealth inequality in the US”; you’ll find my claim not exorbitant.

There is a difference between wealth inequality and wealth.

For example, let’s say there are 100 people … one person has a yearly income of $1 billion and the others each have have an income of $100,000. All of them can live comfortably on their incomes. There is income inequality but the 99 are not poor.

About 20% of Am. families make a six figure income. One hundred thousand dollars per year would make a rich man of a single individual, but it reduces a family of four to ability to pay for the bare essentials. In the USA this family of four or more with a six figure income (100,000 per year) would be considered poor. The % of persons, families who make less than this is more than 20. So, what happened to the American dream–that anyone can pull themselves up by their own bootstraps and, with true grit and practical husbandry, get the rewards of prosperity?

Americans should have 2 kids, no more, anything else is habitat destruction.

I agree. In the 1970s two kids per family was known as zero population growth. (ZPG). Isn’t China attempting something like this?

I don’t care to know about China, it is a filthy country full of bad people. If it were up to me it would have negative population growth.

Americans are not degenerate like them, they would not shoot their daughters for money, therefore we can safely instill a 2 child policy in America.

What if the Am. family has two daughters and wants a son? I knew a family that had seven males and only one female.