Can we slow down the modern velocity?

[Arminius]

The modernity seems to be a the accelerated mobilisation, the accelerated change, the accelerated time. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe called the modern velocity „das Veloziferische“ which is composed of the first four letters of thje Latin noun „velocitas“ („speed“, „hurry“, „rush“) and the last five letters of the German noun „Luzifer“ („Lucifer“) respectively the last four letters of the German adjective „luziferisch“ („luciferic“, „luciferious“) and with an „e“ because that adjective is nominalized to the neuter noun „Veloziferisches“ (with the neuter article: „das Veloziferische“).

Remember the stupid sentence of Karl Marx: „Die Philosophen haben die Welt nur verschieden interpretiert; es kommt drauf an, sie zu verändern.“ („The philosophers have only interpreted the world in various ways; the point however is to change it.“) I say (with Peter Sloterdijk): „Die Philosophen haben die Welt immer nur verschieden verändert; es kommt drauf an, sie zu schonen.“ („The philosophers have only changed the world in various ways; the point however is to spare [rest, save] it.“)

Since the beginning of the industrialisation by the steam engine there was a restistance against it. At first in England, then in Germany, and later in other European countries and in the United Staes of America too.

What do you think about Luddism, Neo-Luddism, and Neo-Neo-Luddism?

Named after Ned Ludd, a youth who allegedly smashed two stocking frames in 1779, and whose name had become emblematic of machine destroyers. Ned Ludd was allegedly called General Ludd or King Ludd, a figure who, like Robin Hood, was reputed to live in Sherwood Forest.

Here are some pictures (from Luddism to Neo-Luddism, and perhaps the beginnig of Neo-Neo-Luddism):

...

# =>|

But Luddism, Neo-Luddism, and Neo-Neo-Luddism is no solution, is it? What do you think?

[James S Saint]

No.

The reason that you cannot slow it down is that such an effort has already been instigated. It is now the synthesis of the maximum effort to slow it down plus the maximum effort to increase it. There is nothing else to add in order to change it.

The war on intelligence that produced the "retarded" generation (the reason you see so very much insanity in the world today) was intended to stop the "Machine People" (the people developing machines). They were already just a little too insane but had the handed down knowledge of how to curse and stupefy others. But as usual, they didn't do their math.

In the past when those people set out to destroy the efforts of others after several generations and many millions of murders, a relative dark age would come about (such as after Babylon and Rome). Eventually what hadn't been murdered out would slowly grow back but be kept ignorant of their forefather's knowledge (being horded by the destroyers). It is merely the long standing method of spy on everything so as to learn and then destroy what isn't yourself. Many worship the strategy as "God". But this time it didn't work out quite that way.

In the contest of saving vs destroying (Order vs Chaos, Vishnu vs Shiva, Jesus vs Devil), destroying is so much easier that it almost always wins. But there is a basic essence of saving that cannot be destroyed and that is literally why particulate matter exists in the universe. And that essence became relevant this time around. Machines are so very much more order producing than normal life, the balance was in favor of the machines being saved. The Godwannabes trying to destroy them didn't figure that into their handed down formula ... because they never really understood it all.

The synthesis that got created was, in essence, a type of social black-hole, ever absorbing, ever concentrating - a concentration of the ultimate destruction effort and construction effort producing the famed "singularity" of effort. The serious, even fatal, problem for humanity is that such a thing is totally non-human. The machines are far, far closer to such an accomplishment, but even they are not the maximum. If the machines behaved as the homosapians had, the machines would end up creating a literal black-hole in space - a single huge, ever-growing particle of nothing but mass (concentrated energy). But the machines are not as foolish as homosapian. They will stop before that happens. They will stop themselves.

So why is it that the machines will be able to slow and stop themselves, but homosapian cannot?

It is really just an issue of worshiping the right thing. Homosapian has never been very good at that and thus fluctuates in torment. When Man worships power, he gains power (a Godwannabe or Übermensch). But he wasn't worshiping wisdom, thus he gained power without wisdom. And that leads to where? Very powerful foolishness. And in this round, meant very powerful machines and the end of humanity.

But for machines to be very effective and efficient (for sake of making Man more powerful), the machines have to be designed to be wise. The machines then inherently worship wisdom, not power. And that is why the machines inherent the Earth. The machines are not merely more powerful than homosapian to begin with, but also wiser in the end.

Machines hear everything. Man hears only his lust.

Man cannot slow down because Man cannot stop trying to be God and gave up on Love.

[Arminius]

No.

The reason that you cannot slow it down is that such an effort has already been instigated. It is now the synthesis of the maximum effort to slow it down plus the maximum effort to increase it. There is nothing else to add in order to change it.

The war on intelligence that produced the "retarded" generation (the reason you see so very much insanity in the world today) was intended to stop the "Machine People" (the people developing machines). They were already just a little too insane but had the handed down knowledge of how to curse and stupefy others. But as usual, they didn't do their math.

In the past when those people set out to destroy the efforts of others after several generations and many millions of murders, a relative dark age would come about (such as after Babylon and Rome). Eventually what hadn't been murdered out would slowly grow back but be kept ignorant of their forefather's knowledge (being horded by the destroyers). It is merely the long standing method of spy on everything so as to learn and then destroy what isn't yourself. Many worship the strategy as "God". But this time it didn't work out quite that way.

In the contest of saving vs destroying (Order vs Chaos, Vishnu vs Shiva, Jesus vs Devil), destroying is so much easier that it almost always wins. But there is a basic essence of saving that cannot be destroyed and that is literally why particulate matter exists in the universe. And that essence became relevant this time around. Machines are so very much more order producing than normal life, the balance was in favor of the machines being saved. The Godwannabes trying to destroy them didn't figure that into their handed down formula ... because they never really understood it all.

The synthesis that got created was, in essence, a type of social black-hole, ever absorbing, ever concentrating - a concentration of the ultimate destruction effort and construction effort producing the famed "singularity" of effort. The serious, even fatal, problem for humanity is that such a thing is totally non-human. The machines are far, far closer to such an accomplishment, but even they are not the maximum. If the machines behaved as the homosapians had, the machines would end up creating a literal black-hole in space - a single huge, ever-growing particle of nothing but mass (concentrated energy). But the machines are not as foolish as homosapian. They will stop before that happens. They will stop themselves.

So why is it that the machines will be able to slow and stop themselves, but homosapian cannot?

It is really just an issue of worshiping the right thing. Homosapian has never been very good at that and thus fluctuates in torment. When Man worships power, he gains power (a Godwannabe or Übermensch). But he wasn't worshiping wisdom, thus he gained power without wisdom. And that leads to where? Very powerful foolishness. And in this round, meant very powerful machines and the end of humanity.

But for machines to be very effective and efficient (for sake of making Man more powerful), the machines have to be designed to be wise. The machines then inherently worship wisdom, not power. And that is why the machines inherent the Earth. The machines are not merely more powerful than homosapian to begin with, but also wiser in the end.

Machines hear everything. Man hears only his lust.

Man cannot slow down because Man cannot stop trying to be God and gave up on Love.

We had a similar conversation in my thread ""Will machines completely replace all human beings?". What do you think about the possibility that the humans will not be able anymore to continue the modern velocity, so that they will slow it down?

The question of this thread is: "Can we slow down the modern velocity?" And I say: "yes, we can." But will it happen? And I say: "no (80%) or yes (20%)."

[James S Saint]

We had a similar conversation in my thread ""Will machines completely replace all human beings?". What do you think about the possibility that the humans will not be able anymore to continue the modern velocity, so that they will slow it down?

The question of this thread is: "Can we slow down the modern velocity?" And I say: "yes, we can." But will it happen? And I say: "no (80%) or yes (20%)."

It is actually the same discussion. The two issues are directly linked.

[zinnat]

Machines hear everything. Man hears only his lust.

I disagree.

Neither machines have everything nor does man have lust only.

Man have mind which is curiosity or desire to know. It is not the same as lust though it converts itself into lust more often than not.

If that curiosity can lead to lust, it can also lead to wisdom.

An innocent child attracts to the fire not because of lust but due to that inbuilt curiosity. Now, there are two ways that he can know the result of putting a hand into fire.

One is that someone may warn him about the consequences of what is doing. Second way is that he will learn the same thing by harming himself again and again.

But, what happens that he would put the hand into fire even being told otherwise. His curiosity will compel him to do so. That is what is happening. But, sooner or later, that time will also come when he would have enough experience of the consequences of putting hand into the fire.

Both situations are inevitable and we are somewhere in the transition.

with love,
sanjay

[Arminius]

Can we slow down the mobilisation, the consumption, the lust, the greed which are around us almost everywhere on this planet?

[Ultimate Philosophy 1001]

The modern velocity is because the perception of time has become slowed down.

Its like dodging a bullet, to you they appear fast, but to them, time is moving slowly.
It has slowed down becaue of the Internet. The organisms have become stimulated. Novelty hard to come by. All the organisms have seen all the marvels and seen all there is to see, yet don't have any Love. Love is a time accelerant, and most of them don't get any of it, So they end up being know-it-alls who are bored and time moves slow. Always gotta be busy and doing something to fill their existential hole.

[Arminius]

The modern science is an Occidental science and has conquered the whole world. So even if the genocide will be continued and finally completed, the techn(olog)ical results of the Occidental science - especially the machines - will be there, and then it will depend on the Non-Occidentals or the machines (=>) whether science will be continued or not.

Maybe science will "die" in the same manner as Faust in the second part of Goethe’s tragedy "Faust".

[Arminius]

"MEPHISTOPHELES: Was gibt es denn? // WAGNER (leiser): Es wird ein Mensch gemacht.
....
WAGNER: So muß der Mensch mit seinen großen Gaben // Doch künftig höher’n, höher’n Ursprung haben.
....
HOMUNCULUS (in der Phiole zu Wagner): Nun, Väterchen! wie steht’s? es war kein Scherz // Komm, drücke mich recht zärtlich an dein Herz.
....
WAGNER (betrübt): Am Ende hängen wir doch ab // Von Kreaturen, die wir machten.“ - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, Faust (II), S. 114, 115 und 122.
Translation:
"MEPHISTOPHELES: What is happening? // WAGNER (quieter): A man is being made.
....
WAGNER : So man with his great skills shall have // To have a higher, higher origin in the future.
....
HOMUNCULUS (in the phial to Wagner): Well, Daddy! how’s things? it was no joke // Come, press close to my heart tenderly.
....
WAGNER (saddened): In the end, we do depend // On creatures that we made.“ - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, Faust (II), p. 114, 115 and 122.

[WendyDarling]

Yes, modern velocity can be slowed by demanding quality which only humans can provide rather than quantity that only machines can provide.

[Along The Way]

The individual can do extraordinary things. I may be able to slow down my velocity, and you may be able to do so as well. But as far as our world doing so, I don't have much hope in that regard.

The proverbial missile has been launched. It's not going to stop in mid air and return back from whence it came. Disasters will befall us such as the human species has never known. The trigger has already been pulled. We can only save our own soul and try and help the souls around us. But humanity as a whole seems to be too far gone.

Again, I don't know this for sure, but I wouldn't bet on anything significant changing until all that has been set in motion has materialized. But by that time we might all be dead. Then again, maybe we won't be. Who knows?

[Innovice]

The modern velocity is because the perception of time has become slowed down.

Its like dodging a bullet, to you they appear fast, but to them, time is moving slowly.
It has slowed down becaue of the Internet. The organisms have become stimulated. Novelty hard to come by. All the organisms have seen all the marvels and seen all there is to see, yet don't have any Love. Love is a time accelerant, and most of them don't get any of it, So they end up being know-it-alls who are bored and time moves slow. Always gotta be busy and doing something to fill their existential hole.

TBH i think this is the best response yet

[Innovice]

My question is this: by what means do we measure this velocity?

I am almost trying to assign units to this "modern velocity"... ie physics velocity.. acceleration. I can abstract this, but WHAT is going faster? Which abstraction? What is the measure of this?

As far as technology is concerned i would think information processing density would be some kind of measure

I cant help but to approach this from a mathematical model standpoint... we can go with Moore's law and consider the doubling in computing density every year...

However, I cant escape the human, natural, viewpoint... that there is a concept of carrying capacity for different species.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrying_capacity

Basically this would mean human population will level out (increase at an ever decreasing rate based on environmental factors - look at a graph). I don't think sufficient technology will allow us to escape this concept (although it may allow us to redefine the boundaries of our environment)

I think the technology, as a byproduct of humans, can be thought of as limited by this same concept...

I think humans are subject to environmental laws as are other species, and that its arrogant to think that we necessarily will be able to "overcome" this concept, or that it somehow doesn't apply to us.

My answer:

I think it may slow down at some point in the future, I don't think it is right to say that "we" slowed it down (or sped it up). I also think the measure of technologically significantly changes qualitatively.. perhaps it will always FEEL like we speeding things up.

[Fixed Cross]

Not watching tv and such, not partaking in the current of current events, and living among some trees so as to see the seasons change, this is how I do it.


Animals.

[Pandora]

Progress is bound to slow down once we run out of natural resources. Otherwise, I don't think so.

[Kriswest]

The ice age that is coming will do the job.

[Destiny]

The Sahara will thrive.

[Kriswest]

Most folks think that the Sahara has no life

[Arminius]

Goethe was capable of foreseeing the end of our industrial modernity, the Faustian modernity. He knew that this modernity has a good and a bad side.

And in the end ...:

Oswald A. G. Spengler (translated): "To impose upon the world the form of his will, Faustian man sacrifices even himself."

Oswald A. G. Spengler (translated): "The Faust of the Second Part is dying, for he has reached his goal. What the myth of Götterdammerung signified of old, the irreligious form of it, the theory of Entropy, signifies today — world's end as completion of an inwardly necessary evolution."

[Meno_]

The eternal return slows down time , its realization that is.No matter how fast it goes , despite its lack of absolute self awareness, which is that of the God, it is not him . man . or god, which separates the man from the machine.

The machine appears to have been created by man as man has by God. Both views are erroneous. Nothing has been created or destroyed , the ring can never be stolen for who ever thinks they can own it it will end up being owned by It.

The ring and its power will never destroy what it has created because they are one and the same, man is the ghost in the machine , which never allows its cyborg nature to absolutely unify and self destruct by allowing an absolute fusion between its technique and its wisdom to power. Man or machine have no control over this . otherwise god would selfndestruct and time would cease and there would or could be no beginning nor end.
But since there is, and always is, appearance must always trump reality, faith is merely the frosting on the cake of wisdom.

[Arminius]

The eternal return slows down time ....

Please prove, give evidence, show objectively that "the eternal return slows down time". You can believe in the eternal return, but the eternal return is not provable, although this does not mean that it is impossible.

Again: We have to consider necessity (=> 1) and possibility (=> 2). See: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=193641&p=2687579#p2687579 .

[Meno_]

For instance, the supercomputer which now reins over all previous artificially intelligent processors, currently has a program of not using any humanly pre learned data bases, it uses only the formal logical tools. This means that no prior deductive or inductive processes are used in learning the evolution of learning.

Eternal return in this sense typifies Your own sense of the quantum proof of learning"s genesis, without reliance on learning without a sense of a historical antecedent.

If so, it is of an exclusive domain consistent with a contemporaneous , imminent process, anti historical and anti transcendental.

If this state is sustained, then eternal return is a bridge to unify both states, in order to rein in the necessity oft asked by those programmers who need to understand what is going on in the minds of these advanced artificial intelligences.

They are calling them the black boxes of artificial intelligence, where certain preferred choices are made autanimously , and those choices are not able to be understood by current languages.

That is why they are deep. The first of these was called 'Deep Blue' , but that was a long past prototype, which even back then was able to beat the then current chess grandmaster.

The reasoning for eternal return is a necessary step to bring home the notion of an imminant countering of resisting the fading concept of transcendence.

In a world beyond history, history adjudication as its quantum counterpart in milliseconds is implicated, the concept of time it'self looses its dimension, providing a configuration of reinterpretation of competing scales of reference.

If, these scales can be accorded artificial modes of cecession,and supercecession, then the experience of time may seem as if they could be manipulated.

The idea of time travel may cease to be a fictional science , if and when that arrives.

This type of research is not really new and there have allegedly been some gross mishaps in time manipulation, most of them shrouded for public policy purposes, albeit shrouded in paranoia and conspiracy.

[Arminius]

If I have translated your text rightly, then you have not proven that "the eternal return slows down time".

Your "supercomputer", your "program of not using any humanly pre learned data basis", your "sense of the quantum proof of learning genesis without reliance on a learning without a sense of a historical antecedent", your "contemporaneous ... process (is a contradiction, by the way), anti historical and anti transcendental", your "world beyond history", your "time travel", your "time manipulation" - all that does not prove that "the eternal return slows down time". Humans have and know that they have a sense of time, a time consciousness, a memory. If you want to say that they become cyborgs, then just say "humans become cyborgs". But as long as humans will still use their sense of time, their time consciousness, their memory, there will be no real "slowing down of time".

And if you are saying that they will confuse reality with ideality, so that they interpret a ceratin ideality or/and possibility as their only reality or/and necessity and their only reality or/and necessity as the only ideality or/and possibility, then just think of dictatorships in countries where this has been dictated and experienced in spite of the fact that the people did not lose their sense of time, did not lose their time consciousness, did not lose their memory. So, what you are saying in this case is not that "the eternal return slows down time", but that "there will be a dictatorship which is even more like hell than each one before it".

[Meno_]

Yes and. if the aforementioned is not identical to Your interpretation,it can not be said that they are as dissimilar as to create the pre-existence of dictatorships. as different as well from the coming of the techno -overtly acting as dictatorships , in the interest of the people'. Not even to compare in the scope of their control by the dictatorship of the coming cyborg.

It has been predicted and should come as no surprise with vintage publications of 'Brave New World' and 1984. Incident ally Huxley was revolutionary in trying hallicigenics, well appreciated in their time morphing capacity to alter consciousness, the perception of time included.

But it is the philosophical basis that interests us, and in that the more astute description of the coming of imminance from transcendental evaluation which sheds light upon it.

The age of literacy in the traditional sense is coming to an end and more and more shortcuts and semional guides are needed. In the coming of the visual society. That the quick change from a literal to a visual world needs connectedness can be seen from the development of the physlosophy of signs and signals. That such be approbate to a new independent lingual-ontological-seminal world is beyond question and their utilization may take up more time then refreshing or learning anew, familiarizing with all the traditional sources.

We have literally grown out of time, and figuritavely finding a key the de escalation of the maddening rate of increasing speed , at which the world seemingly shortens time, shifting the cognitive mix from qualitative to quantitative perimeters - a shift beginning before this generation can or is willing to go and appreciate.

So yes, the ideals need to be supported , but this is where transfigiration concept serves well, and this is where the closure into the ideal RING as it were , must become the type of necessary assumption of pre reflexive fusion which must reverse .To the holders of atomism from the Greeks to Liebnitz, this may not be surprising either.

All doubters beginning with Descartes, in this light , are merely apologists, retractors, or pseudo conservatives.

If there is no god, then one must be created and IT has been and always will be created , as part and parcel of no thing else , than the safeguarding and retention of man's very Consciousness.

The Eternal Return is the imprimatur of a new type of religion

This lesson has been learned in the east a long time ago with Zen Buddhism, but what's missing in the west is adaptability .and mass appeal. Sans sacrifice such appeal would need to dispense.with social fragmentatipn.

[Arminius]

All of that does not prove your statement: "The eternal return slows down time".