It ain’t so . . .There is no nihilist in me. I believe meaning is everywhere and not because I want it to be so - but because that is what is evident to me in nature. Your response was well formed given the jilted nature of my instigation. I wanted to see how well you would smooth out the bumps. Now I will combine some of our writing and add pieces to it and edit small pieces and you should see a little harmony present. Meaning should be evident
This is an experiment - if you take enough notice you will see that there is a kind of flow that was not there before.
< << <<< Disturbance can be harmony >>> >> >
. . . I must admit I have not been following it as pantheist logic. Obviously it is that and I do see what you mean. Pantheism might be a bit strong. How 'bout panpsychism. Objective, subjective or whatever else-ive, meaning I do not believe is confined to an ism. I have never thought of it as confined to an ism either–as in meaning makes sense in this-ism but it doesn’t in that-ism . . .
The quality of a good argument, a good debate and anything agreed upon can be seen as a sort of harmony when comparing the words of the interlocutors. Quality would then become a separate topic. Is disturbance not a quality? You might think of it as a class of qualities. When building a good argument you can see disturbance in it and this I believe is a type of meaning and knowledge. When having a good debate as we stated earlier, both parties are able to express differing points of view, enjoy the debate and still there is harmony in the disturbance - a type of quality involved. When people agree, it is hard to distinguish the outcome from the outcome. Yet when we agree, the previous state of the situation when we didn’t agree has been disturbed.
< << <<< Disturbance is a set of qualities >>> >> >
I can not distinguish one of my cells from the other - they are too small - the ones flowing through my veins present a particular difficulty. Yet they are built in to me. That’s a limitation of epistemic awareness. And “disturbance” is just the best word I could think of. I’d be cautious about running with it–as if to say: there are experiences that count as “disturbances” and there are experiences that don’t. The outcome for each person is different and yet they believe the outcome to be the same - two sets of qualities, experiences and ultimately meaning - one of the sets is disturbance or all of the sets are disturbance if not two of the sets.
< << <<< Disturbance holds meaning >>> >> >
Do we experience when we believe? What is knowledge? How are we defining knowledge?
Knowledge and belief as such aren’t experiences–they’re more like states or dispositions–in the sense that we can say: Joe knows X even though Joe may not be thinking of X. Similar with belief. But there are states of mind that we do experience in which we can identify the belief or knowledge. When Joe actually is thinking of X, I think we can say he is experiencing his belief/knowledge.
We are defining knowledge as the ability to say “X is the case” and to believe it (obviously, if you go with the Aristotilean definition, you also need truth and justification).
If not, then it still might be possible to say that the universe knows about us but only by way of some indirect physical effect that our more immediate effects on our surroundings have on the wider world (i.e. further along the chain of cause-and-effect). If, at some point on this chain of cause-and-effect that we initiate, the signature of the physical action in question qualifies as that which corresponds to knowledge, and if that knowledge is specifically about the original “feel” that we directly caused (the disturbance), then we can say that the universe knows about us. But I don’t take that as a foregone conclusion.
< << <<< Disturbance can be felt and becomes knowledge >>> >> >
This small essay points out one of the “most human traits” in nearly everyone that dare not think outside the box. Can you see the trait in these words? I don’t take it as a foregone conclusion? Why would I? I have no idea how to identify knowledge in terms of physical actions. To think that there is no meaning - we may as well not do anything. To think that there is meaning - we may as well do something.
Sophistry, art or neosophi? Let us conclude.
So with our combination have we presented a third point of view? A third set of opinions? A third meaning? A triangle has been formed by existence, the first person and the second person in the form of discussion and a disturbance has been left in the wake - somehow in some sort of harmony, a good or bad set of qualities and holding some sort of meaning to present to us new knowledge and a new slice of wisdom pie.
Oh, nooo!!! You’re a nihilist! Say it ain’t so!
It ain’t so.