There isn't really a muse thread.

Thanks Mowk, somethings are better left unsaid, at any rate.

I didn’t see anything matching that description, but often times the intended meaning escapes me.

Ok, seeing is not always believing.and a book can’t be usually judged by its cover, however, in a different yet totally unexpected sense, they can. It is possible , or, in this age of approaching the elimination of most disarguable variables, the cover can express the most certain re-source, that mirrors within it’s TITLE, the exact aim for which the substance of what the substance implies .

Mowk, I really know this argument may appear as confusing, so its only a proposed idea with and within which we may intend to explore.

Ill go further: For now I shall not redact
but offer a remedy, please stop with ‘you can’t judge a book by its cover’ and then we can forge argument for now, giving me/you? some future intended source for reasoning.

in other words I don’t intend to offer You more then You bargained for, yet retaining some idea of where I/we were coming from. After all, I’m not wasting any paper/trees here.

In anything for ever or always?

Seeing is often all it takes to believe, and sometimes it isn’t enough. I judge books by their covers, and stories by their titles, as well. It isn’t that you can’t but perhaps you miss out on something if you do.

I can miss understanding you and yet that doesn’t imply that I have arrived at a misunderstanding.

Bargaining for? Negotiating a deal, sort of bargaining? The universe doesn’t often allow me to get away with doing that. I can either deal with it or bitch about it until it is dealt with. Assimilation in some flavor generally occurs; either me to it’s relationship or it’s over me. I never come out on top and I always do.

Ok, lets say I see the cover of a book. ’ Being and Nothingness’ , and am tortured by an evil genius to interpret the book by the cover title.

Now if I didn’t know how Sartre connects with Descartes, I am forced to interpret the Cogito Ergo Sum to Being and Nothingness, in their most reduced manner, that is nominally.

Do knowledge and existence relatable in some way to Being and Nothingness on this level, even if using the most approximate translation to Greek? Of course they can, but how reliable so such become? One needs to read volumes before such relationships become truly understandable. Then the questions relating to how ideas develop can clarify differing meanings in that sense.

Could such an attempt be made without regard to the span of two thousand years, and what would such mean in terms of compatible understanding? Was it attempted by Plato or Aristotle or any of the other thinkers?

Now I would, without further ado answer in the positive, and this is exactly what Nietzsche waa trying to do. I admit I’ve only read him part and parcel, but I believe his intended method consisted of getting this across.

What your take is on meaning can only be unearthed if and only if, it is an intentional attempt to seek look beneath the cover, hiding a depth which can only reflect whomever is inquiring.

But then, some think the same of a summary, a forward , or an epilogue.

Many writers do not put them in the right order, without actually correlating them in order, to let each suppose , that a defiance of sequence will enable the other to travel through time, as of it was reversible.

And in a few cases they can, and bring faith to the idea of the immortality of a work, and the author.

Don’t fear, this is not tantamount with bargaining or dealing with Faust, to restrain himself.

The whole reason for this demonstration can be spelled out from Sartre’s ‘self thought man’ from his tremendous novel ‘Nausea’, and which I am only citing because of some criticism I received from a past ILP member St.James, who wondered my reductive style (.reversely)
To my mind , immortal works will, of approached with total faith , reveal themselves whichever way.
That is why between covers there lies substantial somethingness to cover the nothingness of an abyss, which will reveal much more then the mere reflection of whomever appears to look into IT.

And again, since words can so totally mirror an opposite effect, that this illustration tries to prove the transcendence of an idea of ever which way a narrative is constructed.

then I felt I owed this to you.

Thanks Meno_,

Good stuff to chew on. You are far more well read than I.

MagsJ. Coasting is painfully apt. I admit to the point of life seeming rather obtuse, as if none exists.

Maybe it is as simple as what is Is. No other point to it then life expressing life. I tend toward the thinking all experience can be reduced to a self/not self dichotomy. Life in any of it’s flavors is simply a game of “I spy” between creator and created. A sort of get life, give life arrangement.

Meno_ you play your part remarkably, At times it is really quite difficult to distinguish on which side of the forward slash you fall. Bombs strike quite close to home but seem to come from so far away. Perhaps I have considered myself an observer for far too long and maybe that’s all you ever get to be. How many other languages can you express yourself so compassionately in? The path you have tread seems worn into the walk around the block I have navigated once or twice.

If there is purpose to life, it isn’t homo-sapiens concentric.

Live, with life, in demonstration of being alive. “I am where you are”. I hear it in the rush of waves in a conch shell, but I am uncertain if it can be heard, should be heard, through any other’s shell. Are there really any more then just the two of us in the house?

Clearly you are not me, therefore you can only be part of the creator; any friend, any foe. It is that simple when I can manage to be that simple.

group hug; or are we alone?

I think power in words comes when they can represent both the literal and the figurative. Two birds with one stone.

thinking out loud.

Mowk,

Can not begin to consider Your thoughts , at this time, only thanks for. their implications. I must have some time, to organise a less figurative reply. The continuum between cogito ergo sum and esse est percipii bears to my contextual and situational differences, and You may imagine how difficult that is in terms of autnonomity. In very general terms that is the underlying struggle within which I try to find some comic relief whenever they become available.
At any rate , the existential suspense is remarkably sustainable at a not overly remarkable level, so as to afford some breathing space.

Until then, Happy Holidays.

Many returns.

Thanks , we are never truly alone, nor, never sure if someone else is there in a hug. Always there is a margin for error, as it should be , but not to exceed reasonable limits.

Christ will return , and we all share his body, though not necessarily his spirit.

When?.I really think the time is near but know one really knows the time of His coming.

I don’t know Mowk, but I really think , that miracles are upon us and yet science has not waken up on this ad of yet.

To me the smiles of children are proof in this tremendous energy.

Spoken like someone who has a child. I haven’t seen it from that perspective. But I won’t deny the sentiment. The smiles of children…to you, yeast dividing to me. It is all a demonstration, whether that is proof? That is a question clouded, by waters that don’t always run so clear. Seasons.

Miracles? There is wonder and awe but, I’m not thinking science isn’t on a starboard tack, a right of wind track. Eventually if you are heading up wind you’ve got to adapt to a port tack. Left of wind, rinse, repeat. Sorry to resort to sailing metaphors but I like to sail. Same as what everyone likes but different.

Christ and His return… I’m not sure about any thing but I put money on being on the created side of the framework, and gender doesn’t have a whole lot to do with it.

Timing isn’t the question.

I can only make an off the cuff remark , in reference to sailing through such a different medium.

The width of a vessel determines the possible speed it can navigate, and although although sailing ability here is minimal, the thinnest canues can be outfitted with sails , and navigated properly with skill.

How narrow can such vessel be constricted in practical terms?

But hypothetically, when accommodating a virtually paper thin robotic sliced reality , the speed can overcome most resistance.

Nearly miraculous.

Both mediums sailed through are fluids, and an off shore breeze is unmistakable in direction. It’s which direction the ethereal wind is blowing that makes it challenging. It is easy enough to find yourself stuck in irons.

the lean of the boat has to be compensated for by quickly sitting on the side opposite to the slant.

Compensation of political bias, is at times opportune but only a way to regain lost substance below nomenclature.

Appearences often trump reality.

Changing with the direction of the wind does not necessarily abandon the original destination.

Though for most, such does not work, long term , if the destination has no more then nominal significance.


A grief ago,
She who was who I hold, the fats and the flower,
Or, water-lammed, from the scythe-sided thorn,
Hell wind and sea,
A stem cementing, wrestled up the tower,
Rose maid and male,
Or, master venus, through the paddler’s bowl
Sailed up the sun;

Dylan Thomas

Hey Meno_

I appreciate the stretch to stay “in” a nautical theme, but a sailboat heels over; and from a landlubber perspective it does look an awful lot like leaning. One means of countering a hard heel is to have the weight shift itself as you suggest; less sail and a bit further off wind helps too, particularly single handed.

Politics, what does it accomplish?

Changing direction is the only way to sail into a wind. Chasing the wind, is an apt description of what sailing is. Literally and figuratively.

Kind words… humanity/people always prove that it’s unwise to be too rash. :-k

It sounds like a case of having to get involved, so as for existence to be less obtuse/more experiential.

…a question that’s been asked since we realised that there was a whole universe full of other worlds beyond us. :laughing:

Hugs :romance-grouphug:

here again it is never a problem of obtuse or? But obtuse and, by progressive realization that the choice is based not on singular, but progressively involved effects.

The most regressed lack of choice is still a choice, as the least realization of.corresponding historicallrepetitive patterns understood to be fixed like an idea fixee. There , repetitions become manifest and appearing as an absolute.

For instance, been impressed here in Hanoi, by some ideas related by some casual talk and observations of every day life, and getting a dose of real down to earth comparables between political contrast between the world’s of social communism and capitalism:

Unlike in pre detante days in Europe, here is virtually no homelessness and I bet it’s illegal to lay around streets doing nothing.They will either imprison you or cart you off to a mental facility. In the world of capitalistic society , there is freedom of choice, one can choose between the above two, and even express freedom in the more sublime and ethereal world of finding shelter in downtown shelters, (of which the supply is becoming rarer, as the corresponding demand is sharply rising, do somewhat to the changing perimeters of the downward mobility of the middle class).

Very general and somewhat casual observations.

Other thoughts are negative to the above, and some factored in casually, are affordability, repressive fair trade of values, reaction to ideologically replaced procedures and their replacement of them : as in creating more believable simulations of measured indexes of economic growth.

The 5 year’s plans of yesteryears’ allegedly always had to be fabricated to an equally measured corresponding qualified need.

In pre detente communism, the common saying went as follows: we work with such lack of enthusiasm, as to mirror the low level of our pay.