There isn't really a muse thread.

[Meno_]

"Stasis is movement? That's a statement that begs for qualification."

Stasis is appearance.
The mind in the middle, as You say, perceives this appearing. Appearing is through movement.
When things appear balanced, then there appears no movement, it is still

But when do things appear still? Either when the movement is very slow , or, fast. This is because of the neurological effects up in interpretation: the brain can not distinguish many moving parts as anything but continuous: the film effect. Take a lot of very similar stills, splice them, and the movement is continuous and natural. The stills run at high speeds blend into a higher order stillness. Reverse that process and the continuous reality breaks down into, cut away, from movement, they become multiplicity of stills. In brokenness there is no movement.


The very slow appears still. Cosmological events seen from human eyes, early on are fixed. With astrophysics they gain momentum. Periods through the middle ages.were. comfortably predictable. They did not bite reality.

We have cut away reality and increased the momentum and the velocity of life, so anti create the effect of it's shortness of duration.we quantified life by shifting the qualifiers of existence through disqualifying existential variables which could have been.
We then back and rewrote history by continually short cutting inconvenient recreations . This is why history is merely a recreated revision of the short sighted.
It is hard not to fall in.

The man who fell to earth: ?


https://youtu.be/KUtJ5FnwfCk

[Mowk]

I don't agree, stasis is what it is. Whether perception is accurate or not. Some may see stasis but that is as illusion of a time frame, or a particularly timely point of reference. If it has moved a centimeter in an eon it is not still, static. if it has moved a meter it is less so. Movement in the cosmos negates any lack of perception of relative movement, or the lack there of. I'm not seeing any human contribution as cosmically relevant. A fairly small pool to sample from.

[Meno_]

I don't agree, stasis is what it is. Whether perception is accurate or not. Some may see stasis but that is as illusion of a time frame, or a particularly timely point of reference. If it has moved a centimeter in an eon it is not still, static. if it has moved a meter it is less so. Movement in the cosmos negates any lack of perception of relative movement, or the lack there of. I'm not seeing any human contribution as cosmically relevant. A fairly small pool to sample from.

What then is absolutely fixed in stasis, ?

[Mowk]

No thing, and many ideas.

[Meno_]

No thing, and many ideas.

No thing and many ideas , where ideas = nothing's? Or, are ideas something, where things ~ no things . (where ~ means relational)

& things could be x, y, z, or any symbol.
Or/& are symbols need not be even visual clues . they could be auditory, >>
https://youtu.be/84VIZ6d0nUk<<?


Or, below that without organic life, still
the void ?


But here is the problem.
If IT is what IT is, then what it is is also IT, and that is, by virtue of being it, IS also , and therefore if, (and only of) IT must be eternal, therefore it is also eternal.

Therefore, if it is because of IT, even if IT is no thing, it must be both . (some thing & no thing)

Where ideas ~ no ideas .

Where ~ and. -(~) are some or no thing.

Because they are both static and potentially still.


The only thing which satisfies all of the above is a vanishing point and/or an infinity of them in ONE that are at once are STILL and/or ; and/and resonate.


Now, Mowk

If all the above means nothing: that is merely Your own existential prerogative, so
Agreeing or not is part and parcel of it !

Up in sierra Nevada's. Very private here. Met this guy first guy I could really dig, been all through Hungary, and Slovakia where Mrs. Trump was born and check republic, looked like a red neck haircut gave it away, and conversed a but but cut short when Mrs arrived.
Anyhow bought a nice bike for a song and was real friendly.

This is Rockport a tee bit from Mono Lake, where we will be heading soon.

So he goes biked through here and there, met a guy in Rome and after crisscrossing Hungary he went back to Rome and gave the bike to his friend.

Chewed the fat for a while, (about 20 sentences in about as many minutes)
Told him o spent time in a small town where there were no cars except horses and buggies and a slow summer life with one picture show.

Continue in a min.

[Mowk]

I don't know about eternal. Could be just an idea. If something can become then it didn't exist before it became.

[Meno_]

No thing, and many ideas.

No thing and many ideas , where ideas = nothing's? Or, are ideas something, where things ~ no things . (where ~ means relational)

& things could be x, y, z, or any symbol.
Or/& are symbols need not be even visual clues . they could be auditory, >>
https://youtu.be/84VIZ6d0nUk<<?


Or, below that without organic life, still
the void ?


But here is the problem.
If IT is what IT is, then what it is is also IT, and that is, by virtue of being it, IS also , and therefore if, (and only of) IT must be eternal, therefore it is also eternal.

Therefore, if it is because of IT, even if IT is no thing, it must be both . (some thing & no thing)

Where ideas ~ no ideas .

Where ~ and. -(~) are some or no thing.

Because they are both static and potentially still.


The only thing which satisfies all of the above is a vanishing point and/or an infinity of them in ONE that are at once are STILL and/or ; and/and resonate.


Now, Mowk

If all the above means nothing: that is merely Your own existential prerogative, so
Agreeing or not is part and parcel of it !



This is Rockport a tee bit from Mono Lake, where we will be heading soon.

So he goes biked through here and there, met a guy in Rome and after crisscrossing Hungary he went back to Rome and gave the bike to his friend.

Chewed the fat for a while, (about 20 sentences in about as many minutes)
Told him o spent time in a small town where there were no cars except horses and buggies and a slow summer life with one picture show.

Continue in a min.

[Meno_]

I don't know about eternal. Could be just an idea. If something can become then it didn't exist before it became.

Mowk:

I meant the eternal present.

Think of it this way.Not when You are young but after some threadware, life appears as more of a point then an extended vacation.Point being? Not the one having to do with vanishing, or some geometric ratio , but more as a life worth living, and the reason.
Then look back to the myriad generations who lived suffered and bore some consequence, and their orientations having bearing, and how that extension is not spatial nor temporal, and their similitude , that what made You


Then understanding comes about the re-linerasitation of a poligraphic life.

And that point is You and supposed to share with kind like ilk.

Get my point? That is the polymetric by which we judge a point~unto eternity, or a point in IT , or an eternity in a point.

[Mowk]

The eternal present? Tense is a manner of a languages description of events that take place in time. That there is an eternal present is simply a mechanism of tense.

Do you get full? And once you are full are you never hungry again? I don't think so.

Even as it is, always in flux. Not static; flowing. I don't really have a difference of opinion with you, and I do.

[Meno_]

The eternal present? Tense is a manner of a languages description of events that take place in time. That there is an eternal present is simply a mechanism of tense.

Do you get full? And once you are full are you never hungry again? I don't think so.

Even as it is, always in flux. Not static; flowing. I don't really have a difference of opinion with you, and I do.

Patterns.

For a very long time I sought patterns.
Repetitions
Like on Kierkegaard.
More meaty then Nietzche's eternal occurance. More fated.


"don't really have a difference of opinion with you, and I do.[/quote]'


Either/or

Why not eternally occur ing repetition, -difference of opinion with indifference
? ? ? ?? ?

Partially reconstructing souls from the disorganization of deconstructed selfhood?

[Meno_]

Just a thought to send re: Your earlier posts:

https://youtu.be/VzgQoGvSKA4

[Mowk]

Swing and i missed. Which of the hundred and fifty or so posts do you refer? I've mused a bit. Man just talk to me. Your style is less important then what you have to say.
A couple days ago I did not wish to be a conscious being. I really craved unbeing. Up and down.

Some fairly serious depression/mania runs in my family, on both sides. Don't let anyone diagnose you, You define the prognosis. In other words don't let anyone tell you what you are, you tell them.

I am angry, frustrated, and living in a human contrived world that makes little sense.

Are humans doing the best we can? Even a crook doesn't plan a job to go sour, or maybe some do for other reasons. Aren't they still doing the best they are capable of? I mean let's blame capacity not the willingness to achieve it.

If I gotta shit, then shouldn't I be responsible for digging the latrine? How did we get to paying someone else to do the dirty work? And Prismatic claims I'm brainwashed? It isn't my planet. Who the fuck pays for the resources and who do they pay it to? Someone paying someone else to do the dirty work. I have dirt in my nails right now. Black dirt a century old digging in a hundred and thirty year old houses floor boards, scraping away every previous owners cheap solutions.

We can save you money by just covering over that old shake roofing and three layers of shingle. Until I come along and have to deal with all the half assed short cuts previous owners of this home have done. We have commercial enterprises that are profiting from covering up the past. Every time I see a Rebath commercial I want to puke. In ten years it'll be yesterdays colors and an out of date style and the poor fucks that bought that home are going to have to deal with not the removal and waste of one bath but two.

Man I got so much shit to bitch about and you're like waxing poetic Meno_. And people ask why am I soooo angry?

[Meno_]

Emptier . then ..again.
Way better swing.
Better
Not to.

Ok. better sleep . it off.

[Meno_]

Emptier . then ..again.
Way better swing.
Better
Not to.





Ok. better sleep . it off.

Run, bases, rabbit, run

Ok now.

the motorcycles , the houses, the racket, the birds all contribute to
and what of?
What of it?
Never you mind. Strike.

[Mowk]

More of the same from Meno_. No, I am not disappointed.

DIY.

[Meno_]

More of the same from Meno_. No, I am not disappointed.

DIY.

I'm glad. As awareness of prescriptive analysis overcomes their descriptions, as You point out in Your current political forum, the search for objective meaning becoming reliant on wider and wider gaps toward approximating meaning, I may take that as a compliment.

[Mowk]

Intended. You're a smart fellow, well read, been around the block. But as if you aren't rather stylish already.

For a while I thought I was an artist. Plenty of examples of the attempts here. Thing is, I thought I didn't have any style. Look at it, it is clearly cohesive of a manner of representation, I may not always like my style but it's full blown flat out what came out of me. I could post under a thousand pseudonyms and If I posted what I drew you would know it is me. And the sculpture is like a three dimensional version of my drawing. Can't escape it regardless the media.

So yeah, if you have to. By all means.

[Meno_]

'i' don't have to because the 'i' is at an uncharted position, forging and being formed by the vertex of what modernity has broken down toward more more fragments, meaning less substance, of prepossessed style, it is
more effective as a recollection of prior unity then that which style tries to connect.
The absurdity which is the result of of reduced value, is akin to Remembrance of value.

Ran out of time need more time not now availed to.

I always wanted to live art , and express it in a sense that does not define itself as art.

Something like art for it's own sake. Without a porfolio, or even a central unity as style.

For instance cutting down the street, in some unforgiving street, as Dr. Sax would have, accentingly, poindorously, as if not ever having been there, visually, or Nietzche unbearably at the sight of horses whipped.

Style diffused to minimal shreds, evoking semblance of memory lost, along with paradise.

Yes, You're right : I have to . , now that given half a chance.

And You? If once thought an artist, that defines You.course not fully conscious. Its merely an internal compensating agency, expressly or not.

No its not scrappy, nor a snap, it ain't smooth, nor seasonal, for your eyes only, it flows and spins some meaning in an unforgiving place somewhere along a delta somewhere under a blazing sun, a canopy of sheltering sky.

[Mowk]

You pitched I swung and missed. Strike; like 379 but who's counting. I believe you are giving me way too much credit; given my batting average. Like I can understand half the contributions you have made in this thread. I mean I gotta reach like way out of my reach and all of a sudden I'm grasping at spirits. I don't believe in spirits, which makes the whole notion of grasping for them rather absurd. (maybe way out there and far misunderstood, and beyond my capacity for understanding, so far... sorta of hoping chance swings in my favor, but what are those odds.)

You have managed to participate with me for some time. Thanks. As the moment by moment clock ticks your presence, is noticed. I have come to the opinion the notion of friend has become far too political and is used for reason friendship should never have been corrupted by. It's a lame label anyway. Better to recognize a kinship of sorts. Chance and change and the immutable,just forces me to cut you some slack in anything considered. I'll think for days on it.

Here's my problem. Reason. I don't believe any law exists in the universe that can't have experimental data that backs up the hypothesis. Maybe I haven't been around the block as much as you. Life experience and all, certainly different by fathoms but I've lived my experiment, I have collected the data, I am certain You, Ecmandu, URwronx1000 and the Greatest I Am, as well as including Phenomenal Graffiti and Carleas in the quantification, are rather unique thinkers, and beyond Carleas, no one has provided so much as an experiment or presented data that any of us can perform or independently investigate any substantiate for their claims, A thesis comes far closer. I guess that strange twist of never ending change in combination with the immutable is going to have this [individually singular, haven't yet the requirement of general acceptance results.] The genius of it lies in the capacity to prove the claims. You gotta get really close to it for a really long time and perspire with it. I believe that god itself could spend several lifetimes here on earth and succeed in far less. Sort of that whole notion of never ending change and the immutable interaction.

I get so frustrated that I can not translate even the experiential data I've managed to collect into an experiment anyone else can perform to reach the same conclusion. Any law proposed must be experimentally verifiable. It has to fulfill the quality of commonality of experience in a experimentally testable fashion. "WE" have to access to the same data that a "WE" can become a we that can use this "law" beneficially, predictably.

Come on, does not a retrospect of our history provide substantial evidence to support the hypothesis? >what ever code is required to make the banana dance here inserted<

Hey MagsJ. a merry mowk as a permutation of perception is hypothetically possible, accepting the hypothesis of distortions present in the experiential continuum.

Take care now, to the who and why are which people pitching what shit for what reason?
We can throw all sorts of hypothesis out there, the ones that survive have become testable.

Hypothesis: A distortion exists in the experiential continuum. How does one design an experiment to validate such a hypothesis? Can't answer that question... then you have done less than 1% of the work required.

Waxing poetic inspires, but somebody still has to do the dirty.

[Mowk]

So why do people change their user names. Seems an all too obvious reason is to play mind fuck games with others. Maybe it's just a consequence. But how brain soaked do you have to be for that to slip bellow the radar. Perhaps >this< much. (Gestures a figurative line just above the nose.) Precariously close to not being able to guess again. I am uncertain if any amount of practice is going to improve on this game. Being a coward has saved my life on more than several occasions. Perhaps I should muster the courage. But then some brainwashed fuck head will come along and call me a coward for doing it.

Now Meno_, >that's< the sort of mind fuck I'm talking about. If a guess is a deconstruction then so be it, It still got me one more day to guess again. I believe it may be prudent to try it again tomorrow, unless of course you'd like to try again to convince me otherwise. The foil is created by a whole lot of others who think they are all that individually unique. So what, do we say fuck 'em and let 'em eat worms? The notion that anyone does it on their own is a fucking myth. Easy enough for a left thinker, if one were so inclined, to argue that's where the real brainwashing has taken place. A hero with a thousand faces, documentation that even as isolated groups we are still capable of imagining similar things. I do not think the greatest thinkers give a rats ass who got the credit. Can't go back and ask Newton now if his thinking gained any inspiration from an other's thoughts. As far as thoughts go, he didn't create the proverbial apple, he likely didn't even gather the seeds and plant the tree.

But the myths we believe in do speak volumes about who we are. So what if the metaphor is low hanging fruit. [drum rim, cymbal crash, dubbed in audience laughter.]

And now, a word from our sponsors, who's contributions have made this programming possible.

Cue the commercials.

[Mowk]

The system sucks. It allows for all sorts of corruption to take place hidden bellow the surface masquerading as the way business is done. Insurance, humbug.

I broke a partial denture. I called around for someone to repair it. In the end I had to see a dentist.

Of course they wanted me to fill out a new patient questionnaire. They even had to have me sit in a dentist chair for an exam, hows that going to contribute anything to repairing the partial? Adding the cost of an exam on top of what I have to pay to have the partial repaired.

When I go in for a cleaning, I get charged the same amount as someone with all their teeth, If you've had your wisdom teeth pulled you don't get a break for there being fewer teeth to clean. And if you have even fewer you are paying for work that isn't being done. It is built into the system. Taken for granted, that's the way it is. I was born with a genetic susceptibility to periodontal disease, my mom had it and my grandfather before her and my great grandmother before him. I've had to pay out a lot for those genes, and I didn't have one shred of choice in the matter. A dentist spreads out the cost for specialized training and equipment across their entire customer base and then charges a single patient a premium for the service. Plus they write off the cost on their taxes as a part of doing business. They are in effect getting paid three times for the same work. Hell, the whole medical industry thrives under the same built in conditions.

Families of children born with genetic defects are financially burdened for there entire lives. A child with autism requires a lot of specialized care. These are things the entire human race should be responsible for not just the unlucky few who's fate has drawn the card. A type I diabetic shells out a lot of money for insulin, daily, for a condition that they weren't responsible for. There are far too many examples.

My father in law has donated more than 16 gallons of blood, but I'm fairly certain if he ever needed it, as part of a medical procedure, he'd get billed for it by the pint, whether he needed the whole pint or not.

I'm not a super fan of Bernie Sanders but he makes some sense that health care is a basic human right. Grateful I just have bad gums.

This is just another example of how we are all connected. I'm am certain we could get together and fix everyone who was born with one leg shorter then the other, either left or right... or maybe that isn't fixable. Being born with one leg shorter then the other is a genetic condition as well, beyond notions of choice and personal responsibility. Sure what is done in spite of that condition is more individual. But it's there bellow the surface, beyond the guise of individual control, as if nature itself isn't sure which is the better survival strategy.

[Meno_]

Mowk said "The foil is created by a whole lot of others who think they are all that individually unique. So what, do we say fuck 'em and let 'em eat worms? The notion that anyone does it on their own is a fucking myth. Easy enough for a left thinker, if one were so inclined, to argue that's where the real brainwashing has taken place. A hero with a thousand faces, documentation that even as isolated groups we are still capable of imagining similar things. I do not think the greatest thinkers give a rats ass who got the credit. Can't go back and ask Newton now if his thinking gained any inspiration from an other's thoughts. As far as thoughts go, he didn't create the proverbial apple, he likely didn't even gather the seeds and plant the tree.

But the myths we believe in do speak volumes about who we are. So what if the metaphor is low hanging fruit. [drum rim, cymbal crash, dubbed in audience laughter.]"



Meno wrote,


"Jung wrote an interesting little book entitled " Synchronicity", and there are similarities between human beings that approach exact identity, where, the totality of the personality result from minimum missing pieces of difference.

I think such persons become incredibly humbled from the experience Newton and Leibnitz were perfect in that regard, except Newton less so, since he became more assertive toward taking credit.

Darwin's evolutionary ideas caused the suicide of an Austrian biologist, having opposite ideas, but they were driven more by healthy competition more than ego problems. I think the search for truth diminishes any sense of nominal differences in understanding.'


I could relate spectacular personal experiences, regarding extra sensory events in my life, and I do not consider them unique, but at the time they happened, they were so real that it knocked my socks off. Will forgo going into them, and defer them, perhaps, to a later time, given an opportunity.

[Mowk]

I've had too few of those sorts of extra sensory experiences, they are, some times, after too much time, to easily dismissed. I have been down a few of the spiritual paths, they have taken me just so far, and the confusion caused requires me to tap out to catch my breath. I do hope some time, you will find some of that opportunity. Even if, as just hearing from someone else could shed some light and understanding upon them.

I mentioned an accord in another thread. I will struggle at a task; some challenge set before me, and get fairly hard on myself for how difficult It seems to have become, and in a flash of insight the way becomes clear, the solution obvious, as if I should have known it all along. I sure wish I knew from where this insight comes. As if the solution comes from some source within and without at the same time, a whisper in the ear, a sort of seeing with eyes closed, the world out there, in a different light. Without anything solid to grasp at it is hard to manage even a guess.

[Meno_]

Mowk said, "sure wish I knew from where this insight comes. As if the solution comes from some source within and without at the same time, a whisper in the ear, a sort of seeing with eyes closed, the world out there, in a different light. Without anything solid to grasp at it is hard to manage even a guess."


Shootin' the stars, the breeze, one thing, no mind now, host nothing
: displaced ego.
naturally, reduced, for the sake of expediency,
A form,
An art to commune,
Displace into the ethereal, somewhere, sometime.

Channels, and products to anywhere.

[Meno_]

This effusive alto- gather impersonally
so that wherever it's coming from , you know the clouds close in soon as the winds gather firm,

It is going to someplace coming from some place this coming and going is a parappsychic something from beyond to be yound.
Will feel the same then only more, but the more never the less,

That is, the same be coming, as you pass,

And accomodation and other perfected perfected virtues.

The deference before and after various partially with a variety of interlocking manifestation which can be deconstructed and reconstruct
ed edifices to churn.

I wouldn't say such elevated prefaces
worthy of note.

The expansion s are painful to maintain, and are abstract expression for hidden meaning, and they must conform in some approximation to the corresponding .....What?....Or rather .....Who?

Not to ask why how where and when?