New Discovery

Yes, and then this principle bumps into the principle that nature compels us to move only in the direction of that which it has, in turn, already compelled us to conclude is the direction of our greater satisfaction. That principle then thought to be no less SOUND than yours.

Then what?

Well, then nature either compels others to move in the direction of one point of view or the other.

Whose conscience, pertaining to what environment, pertaining to what two-side equation, pertaining to what actual chosen behaviors?

What on earth does that mean?!!!

Yes, the aliens residing in autonomous part of the universe have the actual option to choose – to either note how the author’s own options reflected merely the psychological illusion of choice back then or to note how your own options today can never be more than nature compelling you to “choose” to come back into this exchange with me.

Only in my own rendition of determinism, it’s nature all the way down. And then all the way back to an explanation for existence itslef.

Note to others:

Is it even possible, in terms of the behaviors that we do choose, to encompass the meaning of “for all practicle purposes” in a more obscure, obtuse and hopelessly abstract manner.

From my frame of mind [compelled or not] it encompasses instead precisely how the author’s “discovery” above [encompassed in excerpts] is little more than an “intellectual contraption”.

She brings none of it down to earth, in my view.

Yes, I agree that probing the brain of a particular woman with an unwanted pregnancy hooked up to fMRI technology is not the same as probing it in the context of the choices/“choices” she makes on the way to the abortion clinic.

It’s just a start until the technology is shrunk down to an instrument able to be taken into the clinic with her.

But how on earth is the author’s discovery applicable to the brain of this woman making her choices. How on earth does he connect the dots between here and now and a progressive future where the hurt inflicted on the shredded fetus and the hurt inflicted on a woman forced to give birth somehow just go away. If, for now, only in the author’s head?

We know that in our dreams we are no less convinced that we are freely choosing to behave as we do. Or, rather, that’s the way it is in my dreams. Only upon waking do we become cognizant that this “reality” was created entirely by the brain in our brain.

Only how do we demonstrate in turn that our becoming cognizant of the dream upon waking is no less a necessary manifestation of nature having remarkably evolved into matter able to accomplish this?

Where is the author’s explanation for that?

And if you actually see no connection between the points I raise about dream reality and waking reality in a wholly determined universe, then, well, damned if I know.

Back again to that mysterious manner in which [here] you are in sync with my own frame of mind, but…

…but then make our “choices” both 1] a part of a necessary unfolding of history into that which it can only ever be and 2] able to particpate in the author’s “progressive” future in the moment of “choosing” to before the true “no free will world” kicks in.

In other words, whatever that means. And, no, for me, it’s not just “for all paractical purposes”. Even as an intellectual contraption itself it makes no sense to me.

But, I’m willing to acknowledge two things…

1] that the problem is me…your explanations are more reasonable than mine but I am unable to grasp them…though only as nature compels this to be

2] that we both have some measure of autonomy here…and that your reasoning is still more sophisticated than mine

peacegirl, you refuse to provide me with the sort of evidence that demonstrates to me that the author is able to bring his intellectual contraptions down to earth…such that I am enticed to explore his discovery in full

Besides, nature has yet to compel me to read it.

Right?

Okay, step by step, in regard to the global economy today, note how the author is convincing in persuading us to see this transformation more clearly.

Also, just out of curiosity, how did he react to the manner in which Marx and Engels also envisioned a progressive future predicated on the historical evolution of political economy into a classless society which as well minimized the pain and suffering of humanity?

Theoretically.

Of course they actually brought their own speculations down to earth by noting the actual evolution of political economy over the course of human interaction down through the ages. Focusing on the means of production and the manner in different types of human communities predicated social and political interactions – the superstructure – on these fundamental forces. The infrastructure. The economic base.

Over and over and over again you level this sort of accusation at me — in much the same manner that those who embrace free will would.

The irony then being completely lost on you.

Keep telling yourself that. After all, it’s not like you actually have the option not to. But that’s between you and nature.

But [compelled or not] I’m sticking to my own assumption. That, psychologically, this exchange with me is creating more and more cracks in your own objectivist font.

And that won’t be tolerated. Not for now. And I know this because it took years before the cracks finally led to the crumbling of my own objectivist font. Fonts, actually. God. No God.

No one I suspect would ever want to end up construing things as grimly as I do “here and now”. I sure as shit don’t.

And again the seeming simple minded but not simple question re-occurs, where is the assumptive reconstruction of an objective which can transcend self interest to the public domain?

Has the retrogression into a nihilism been made compatible enough phenomenally to induce enough power to will such a notion? ( to choose better and better options to improve everybody’s lot? Or is that a Marxian outdated economic problem set on failed projections? (Communism: 5 year plans)

For if immanent projections fail indifferent to transcending qualities, which confirm quantified universal production quotas, in a senseless truncated past and future objective economy, can such be transcendentalilly obvious to even low level ananysts?
The fact that such universally adapted theory did fail, presents the problem of immediate reapplication for any currently viable methodology contraindicated at best, and unsupportingly fallacious at worst.

youtu.be/T3JzcCviNDk

Yes, time is unthinkable , and consciousness of it defeats it’s eternal presence that is measured by it.
Or the measure of infinite duration, what we understand by eternity, is destroyed by it’s self, by the affected of it’s own immeasurability.
Yes but this fallacy, immersed in it’s own contradiction, is effectively a requisite mirror by which ‘it’ comes into being…
The birth of tragedy is in it’s own existential despair of an untangling of it’s being it’s self.

youtu.be/kB2Aypn5kMk

There is no “evil” when one is always ignorant to parts of the context in their intent and you can’t be both wise and evil, so there you go.

Not sure how nature can compel anyone to do anything externally when the very “compelled” being is the very same nature itself in different form and content. Determinism determined itself free by wisdoms/knowledges existence. That’s consciousness and the universe is inherently selfish, creation/manifestation holds traits of creator/spawner.

It’s funny too how people think they have no choice but to participate in this loop of malleable energy, I assure you if you have seen the nothing, the void, you would want to stay participating. Welcome to nature with comfort and complacency, seeing the incomprehensible breaks and baffles the mind like a stretching rubber band. We’re not “compelled” to be here by nature, we’ve chosen it but that seems to be just another lost memory.

Artimas , Peacegirl wrote,

"]Look how far we’ve come, but this formal transition will catapult us into the Golden Age of man — an age where there is no war, crime, or poverty

excellent. now that the human species has finally stopped bullshitting around, we can focus our collective efforts on space colonization, exploration and expansion.

the headlines will read: the year two-thousand-something… when humans got their shit together and finally stopped behaving like monkeys.
[/quote]
Just remember we couldn’t help but go through the necessary stages of evil to reach this turning point in history!
[/quote]
There is no “evil” when one is always ignorant to parts of the context in their intent and you can’t be both wise and evil, so there you go."

Ignorance really, is not bliss, contrary to popular opinion.
That frames the intensional of the natural progression, belies it’s intentional objectives."

It seems as of this qualification muzzled indications of how and why it was done this way.
Or rather, how or why!
The only loop is that which goes nowhere but is everywhere, nowhere to go.

there is no such thing as ‘evil’, but as close as we can come to calling someone evil would involve identifying the disparity between intent and action… so yeah, you’re sorta right. but really this quality ‘evil’ only amounts to incompetence, which is what we call that rift between one’s beliefs and one’s actions. in the context of this thread, this rift was identified as the incompetence of any individual or state that believes these three things in unison: that the structure of their current society is not conducive of excessive conflict, that partaking in such conflict purposely is immoral, and that those who do have objective knowledge of ‘right and wrong’ (of which there is none) also have the freewill (which doesn’t exist) to choose one or the other. it is these three systemic errors in reasoning that combine to produce the sum total of such egregious incompetence. now if anything were ‘evil’, it would be this.

but there’s more. what here appears to look like an excess of power as it is usually understood - the ruthlessness of a society that holds itself together even while these three fundamental errors are operating… and how this seems to demonstrate a body that is strong enough to incorporate its errors without jeopardizing its vitality - it is really a total absence of power in that this society demonstrates that it needs to lie in order to function. and here is where the problem of ‘intent’ is raised, and how what is most simply just a kind of incompetence now becomes something gross and contemptible.

that so many centuries have been spent in designing the erroneous theoretical and philosophical background against which western capitalism has evolved, is quite frankly astonishing. if it stood only on social darwinism and had the courage to accept the logical consequences of this premise, it wouldn’t be so contemptible. but it had to not only create an order in which a minority could live and prosper off the productive energies of a majority, but also devise carefully thought-out ideological trappings which would help it sustain itself against what would result from pure anarcho-capitalism. such things as ‘equal opportunity’, ‘moral right and wrong’ and ‘freewill’ would become cornerstones to this process. finally the glaring incompetence reveals itself to those who have greater insight into the machinery. these three fabrications aren’t just lies, but useful lies to a system that is so weak and with such cowardice, it cannot prosper without them. if it stopped holding to these lies, social darwinism in its purest and most volatile form would take life and quickly eliminate those who’ve relied on such lies to sustain their places of false power.

anywho what i’m saying here won’t make much sense unless you are able to assess great spans of history, their social and economic structures, and the respective ‘philosophies’ that backed them through their development. there is a very distinct pattern or direction of thought from platonism to analytical philosophy; the first comes into existence to back the aristocratic contempt for materialism… the last comes into existence to destroy that entire lineage of lies.

disposing of the myth of ‘freewill’ is a surgical strike against the status-quo and, ironically, frees those who are oppressed by such tyranny from being subject to the operant conditioning of guilt… something that is critically important to the status-quo for keeping those who are subordinate to it, under control.

it really is a big deal, dude… i mean as far as the social sciences are concerned. get the idea of freewill out of the heads of people and western capitalism will suffer a tremendous blow. greater attention will be paid to those environmental factors/circumstances which statistically produce crime and conflict, than ever before. and that’s precisely what the capitalist/conservatives don’t want to happen.

oh cool here’s a rough analogy for ya. take an animal (poverty stricken criminal) that’s infested with a parasite (capitalism). the parasite hijacks the mind of the animal (philosophy of freewill and objective morality) and makes the animal believe that not only was his crime of stealing ‘immoral’, but also that he had a choice not to steal.

in doing this the parasite is able to regulate and keep manageable the dysfunctional behavior of the animal that it has caused through its infestation. the animal becomes a zombie that the parasite can continue to feed off of.

danielmiessler.com/blog/free-wi … agreement/

For the above reason i suspect that pro-forma, the positivist group is not only a defensive approach , but a harbor for instigating a reduction into an absurd epoch, literally!

There is no sense in entertaining data, that belies the sense of certainty through which it can make sense of it.

Here an intensional structural requirement develops , leading to a supposed and overblown arsenal of political power.

It will continue the conflation until it needs no further justification, because it will become independent of
It.

It all fell apart where the social power through authority lost credence.

Loss of political power is replaced by it’s figurative counterpart.

So go and figure$

However, the ‘parasite’ is the generic middle man, without which absolute.control would need to be exercised, it would morph into the auto-immune virus that brings the systemic ‘evil’ back into an unsustainable feedback system.

Which is factored in, where the epoch is sustainable only by utilizing an absolutely variable resource system.

Not bliss but lack of consciousness is innocence, that’s why babies, mentally incapacitated and animals are innocent.

And what is proposed instead of capitalism?

gloomism, the brainchild of our very own gloominary.

The ones who are expected to loose innoscence, do not include the last two. Babies , of course to puberty are included. So let’s not put all in one grab bag. The gloom and doom of disqualification is a natural process, not a categorical imperative.

It’s been awhile since I’ve been here. It seems this thread got completely off track from the original intent to explain why man’s will is not free and what this means for the benefit of all mankind.

declineandfallofallevil.com/ … APTERS.pdf

So how would that have a benefit to mankind if it were true? My stance is still that both exist and operate from each other.

Because responsibility for one’s actions is increased, not decreased. The impact of this knowledge is huge because it prevents what blame and punishment could not accomplish.