Given the opportunity, Abraxas forbid, Trump will surpass them all.
I think Americans have a very long unintegrated shadow and, despairing of it, project their dark stuff on Trump now. It is rather upsetting to see the nation reach so deep in darkness to cast off its moral shadow on such a convenient scapegoat, who in effect is doing really good work around the globe, handling the ‘darkness’ of US capacity for violence with elegant precision and, as far as Im concerned, highly sophisticated priorities. But … Trump plays it this way. It’s his method. I am in awe.
The moral struggle of integration is very much related to judging reality by what really happens, rather than what it makes you feel.
Ill shift to a more human-sized shadow. youtube.com/watch?v=SIkK-XH6TG8 - it just appeared in my suggestions and it is elementary shadow play.
“Every time this shit is coming, I turn this into a joke. I don’t want to go too deep. Because Im gonna get - maybe Im gonna understand. And Im gonna get scared for real.”
Is this thread going to be a vice signaling competition?
Yes lol I was gonna say.
Politics, dude.
Its the most complex shadow play there is in this world, wouldn’t you think?
What do you think of the comparison I made of clandestine services and the Shadow?
Again - I feel the Key, if there is any, to Jung, is the paradoxical relationship of the individual shadow with societal shadow.
Its almost like an LSD trip to contemplate them together.
For example, it is a common pattern to see musicians celebrate the individual shadow in one song and denounce the societal shadow in the next.
Sex drugs and rock and roll, and then preaching of peace and love and social order. Eminem, who becomes famous by rapping about violence and then uses this fame to help enforce moral restrictions on less wealthy people.
Meaning such celebration of the shadow as what he is famed for is what Jung attributes to monkeys.
Its almost as if art has yet to be born.
It may be necessary to know a bit of Nietzsche in order to wade through Jung’s murky shadow concept, which appears to exist beyond the distinction of individual and society.
The individual as a polis of drives inside of a larger polis of drives, without a clear distinction.
This explains much of camp-guard type behaviour. Violence is displaced. And also on the other side, excessive meekness is cultivated.
Both go hand in hand to create death-camps. The US was set up almost to enforce a bit of capacity for violence upon everyone, to push for integration of the shadow.
“When we strive after the good or the beautiful, we thereby forget our own nature, which is distinctiveness, and we are delivered over to the qualities of the pleroma, which are pairs of opposites. We labor to attain to the good and the beautiful, yet at the same time we also lay hold of the evil and the ugly, since in the pleroma these are one with the good and the beautiful. When, however, we remain true to our own nature, which is distinctiveness, we distinguish ourselves from the good and the beautiful, and, therefore, at the same time, from the evil and the ugly. And thus we fall not into the pleroma, namely, into nothingness and dissolution.” ( From" Septem Sermones ad Mortuos" by Carl Gustav Jung, 1916)
You want it darker? youtube.com/watch?v=v0nmHymgM7Y
Let me lift one out to study.
“Taking it in its deepest sense, the shadow is the invisible saurian tail that man still drags behind him. Carefully amputated, it becomes the healing serpent of the mysteries. Only monkeys parade with it.”
How does one amputate the shadow?
What does it mean to carefully amputate the shadow?And what does it mean to parade with it?
Am I parading with my shadow when I talk down on people whom I think are being stupid?
Is rap music parading with the shadow, or is it rather the healing serpent?
Or both?What precisely is the fucking shadow?
What is your shadow, if I may ask?
“What precisely is the fucking shadow?”
He may have changed his mind - since - (these chaps were renowned for writing lots of books). However, from what I hear, Mister Young said, in the IotP:
The character that summarizes a person’s uncontrolled emotional manifestations consists, in the first place, of his inferior qualities or peculiarities. Even people we like and appreciate suffer from certain imperfections of character that have to be taken into the bargain. When people are not at their best, such flaws become clearly visible. I have called the inferior and less commendable part of a person the shadow.
My hat is off to those who skip through the process!
“When we strive after the good or the beautiful, we thereby forget our own nature, which is distinctiveness, and we are delivered over to the qualities of the pleroma, which are pairs of opposites. We labor to attain to the good and the beautiful, yet at the same time we also lay hold of the evil and the ugly, since in the pleroma these are one with the good and the beautiful. When, however, we remain true to our own nature, which is distinctiveness, we distinguish ourselves from the good and the beautiful, and, therefore, at the same time, from the evil and the ugly. And thus we fall not into the pleroma, namely, into nothingness and dissolution.” ( From" Septem Sermones ad Mortuos" by Carl Gustav Jung, 1916)
You want it darker? youtube.com/watch?v=v0nmHymgM7Y
Bru that’s not even sundown. It’s in fact nine o clock in the morning when everyone realises it from tme to time.
If not every day.
Same to Derley. A little darker would be good.
I want to normalise world peace.
Let’s put this in the shadow and see how it looks.
The shadow side of world PeAce.
☆♡ So hey?
Jakob: Same to Derley. A little darker would be good.
Imagine. You are a lifelong fan of FN.
You turn up at a Philosophy Forum and your attention is drawn to the statement: I’ve returned to Jung, because he’s right.
So you decide to study Jung. Because he is right.
And Jung says: Zarathustra is more for Nietzsche than a poetic figure; he is an involuntary confession. Nietzsche also had lost himself in the darkness of a life that turned it’s back upon God and Christianity, and that is why the revealer and enlightener came to him as the speaking fountainhead of his soul.
Dark or Light?
The Rosarium makes Hermes say: Ego lapis gigno lumen, tenenbrae autem naturae meae sunt: “I, the lapis, beget the light, yet the darkness is of my nature.”
Light and right.
But now, years later, I am considerably more ambivalent about all of the things I did back then. From the radical right to the radical left. Back in my own “objectivist days”.
As for Jung, how would those here who share in any of the points he raised above react to what I did back then? How would the Freudians?
I would say that you threw yourself on the Shadow immediately, as did a lot of Vietnam veterans.
Their confrontation of it became a whole corpus of literature, music and film and formed a basis of a new national conscience.But, the shadow is elusive.
As it is in oneself.
Let’s try this. Over the past year, you have no doubt been in situations that stood out as, say, more momentous than others. Sets of circumstances that were more crucial by way of impacting on your life than did others. How would you describe the shadow’s presence here? If only generally.
Clearly each individual has to deal with the manner in which his or her brain/mind/“I” reacts to the world around it in intertwining the id with the ego, conscious awareness with subconscious and unconscious states of mind, genes with memes, nature with nurture.
Now, my interest here would be in exploring the shadow as it manifest itself to you in the either/or world and then in the is/ought world. That is simply my “thing” here in all of these discussions. .
In other words…the Shadow and dasein? the shadow and conflicting goods? the Shadow and political economy?
Morality on this side of the grave, immortality on the other side.
Thus I would be curious in turn to explore Jung’s shadow as it pertains to death: ideapod.com/carl-jung-explains- … n-you-die/
Jung:
“The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.”
How does that fit into my reaction to the Vietnam war? Damned if I know. What the hell does this even mean in regard to any particular individual facing any particular situation in which moral and political narratives come into conflict?
Well yes, this is a distinction, a problem I also noticed;
We have the individual shadow and then he societal shadow which is far larger, and yet, the same.The elusiveness of the shadow points to the mystery of separation and unity of the individual and his world. Thats a thought that comes to me now, writing this.
Well, only to the extent that someone is able or willing to grapple with his or her shadow more substantively, descriptively, empirically etc., would their account be of much interest to me.
More to the point [mine] in terms of your own interactions with others involving “considerable moral effort”, what does it mean to you?
Cite a situation you have been in that allows you to describe it more substantively.
it means so very, very much.
My life, dude, I can not even tell you a single detail. Its unfortunate. Lurkers.But in general, Ive always made a great effort to bring to light the darkness where I would rather not recognize it.
One thing I can tell you: People who consider themselves “light workers” are usually the very opposite. Demons, sick people.I suppose this is in part why I was so drawn to Nietzsche, and in particular his darker side. I never had the slightest faith in anything that wasn’t addressing the very heart of darkness.
In other words, for whatever personal reasons [reasons I am not likely to grasp in not being you], you don’t/won’t go there. The things you then note are [to me] just more general description intellectual contraptions.
I have no idea what in the world you are talking about in regard to “bring[ing] to light the darkness where I would rather not recognize it.” Demons? Sick people? When? where? how? why?
The dark side as a manifestation of biological imperatives more or less than traumas encountered over the course of living your life out in a particular world given a particular set of experiences rooted through nurture in dasein.
As for Baltimore, the Wire, sure. And John Waters films. But the film that came closest to it for me was Jodie Foster’s Home for the Holidays. It was mostly filmed a few miles from my home in Lauraville. I remember a co-worker coming into the company I worked for claiming to have seen Jodie Foster in the seven-eleven in Hamilton. And the part where Robert Downey Jr. is walking past the cemetery on Moravia Road was less than a mile from my house.
Hmm. I wonder how the shadow fit in there? Fit into those characters struggling up on the screen to sustain their human-all-too-human interactions.
The question is how wise is it to divulge even bits of ones own shadow-path.
On the bright side, I have a small video which lightly touches on what turned out to become my shadow-path, which features an explosion from a very dark and Jungian Vietnam horror film, “Jacobs Ladder”.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaKU8GDe0Gk[/youtube]
The question is how wise is it to divulge even bits of ones own shadow-path.
On the bright side, I have a small video which lightly touches on what turned out to become my shadow-path, which features an explosion from a very dark and Jungian Vietnam horror film, “Jacobs Ladder”.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaKU8GDe0Gk[/youtube]
“Shadow path” nicely said. Mine took decades to unfold. To reverse Jesus’ saying, shall we cast our swine before pearls? Iambiguous, you go first. And last.
The question is how wise is it to divulge even bits of ones own shadow path
Well if it is affecting your ability to function on any significant level simply ignoring it is probably the worst thing you can do
Your demons will not just go away if you are too afraid to confront them as that will only make them stronger in the long run
Jacobs ladder. I’d forgotten that movie. Those shake-head demons scared the bejesus outta me.
“Shadow path” nicely said. Mine took decades to unfold.
Mine too.
if I may ask, did get you anywhere?
To reverse Jesus’ saying, shall we cast our swine before pearls?
Iambiguous, you go first. And last.
Yes. Hahaha.
Jacobs ladder. I’d forgotten that movie. Those shake-head demons scared the bejesus outta me.
Yes, that was a very good depiction of hell I thought.
I got a kick out of showing the movie to my friends.
Also remember going to watch Se7en many times in the cinema just for the reaction of the crowd to the Sloth moment.