stay tuned!

Discussion of the recent unfolding of history.

stay tuned!

Postby iambiguous » Sun May 24, 2020 9:37 pm

To wit:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/24/us/p ... e=Homepage

'WASHINGTON — In October, President Trump declares a state of emergency in major cities in battleground states, like Milwaukee and Detroit, banning polling places from opening.

'A week before the election, Attorney General William P. Barr announces a criminal investigation into the Democratic presidential nominee, Joseph R. Biden Jr.

'After Mr. Biden wins a narrow Electoral College victory, Mr. Trump refuses to accept the results, won’t leave the White House and declines to allow the Biden transition team customary access to agencies before the Jan. 20 inauguration.

'Far-fetched conspiracy theories? Not to a group of worst-case scenario planners — mostly Democrats, but some anti-Trump Republicans as well — who have been gaming out various doomsday options for the 2020 presidential election. Outraged by Mr. Trump and fearful that he might try to disrupt the campaign before, during and after Election Day, they are engaged in a process that began in the realm of science fiction but has nudged closer to reality as Mr. Trump and his administration abandon longstanding political norms.'


Is anything really out of the question these days?

On the other hand, should Trump pursue any of these options, what recourse could those in opposition to it actually pursue?

Would the police/military have to be brought in?

Then this part:

'Marc Elias, a Washington lawyer who leads the Democratic National Committee’s legal efforts to fight voter suppression measures, said not a day goes by when he doesn’t field a question from senior Democratic officials about whether Mr. Trump could postpone or cancel the election. Prodded by allies to explain why not, Mr. Elias wrote a column on the subject in late March for his website — and it drew more traffic than anything he’d ever published.

'But changing the date of the election is not what worries Mr. Elias. The bigger threat in his mind is the possibility that the Trump administration could act in October to make it harder for people to vote in urban centers in battleground states — possibilities, he said, that include declaring a state of emergency, deploying the National Guard or forbidding gatherings of more than 10 people.

Mr. Trump has said he expects the election to be held on Nov. 3 as scheduled, and under federal law he does not have the power to unilaterally postpone it. But a recent comment by Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and adviser, about whether the election would be held as scheduled — “I’m not sure I can commit one way or the other,” he said — renewed fears that Mr. Trump would try to move the election, or discredit the balloting process, if he thought he was going to lose.'


Imagine if, in the Fall, the dreaded "second wave" of the covid-19 pandemic really does occur?

Who can even begin to pin down what happens if that unfolds.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: stay tuned!

Postby Meno_ » Sun May 24, 2020 9:55 pm

iambiguous wrote:To wit:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/24/us/p ... e=Homepage

'WASHINGTON — In October, President Trump declares a state of emergency in major cities in battleground states, like Milwaukee and Detroit, banning polling places from opening.

'A week before the election, Attorney General William P. Barr announces a criminal investigation into the Democratic presidential nominee, Joseph R. Biden Jr.

'After Mr. Biden wins a narrow Electoral College victory, Mr. Trump refuses to accept the results, won’t leave the White House and declines to allow the Biden transition team customary access to agencies before the Jan. 20 inauguration.

'Far-fetched conspiracy theories? Not to a group of worst-case scenario planners — mostly Democrats, but some anti-Trump Republicans as well — who have been gaming out various doomsday options for the 2020 presidential election. Outraged by Mr. Trump and fearful that he might try to disrupt the campaign before, during and after Election Day, they are engaged in a process that began in the realm of science fiction but has nudged closer to reality as Mr. Trump and his administration abandon longstanding political norms.'


Is anything really out of the question these days?

On the other hand, should Trump pursue any of these options, what recourse could those in opposition to it actually pursue?

Would the police/military have to be brought in?

Then this part:

'Marc Elias, a Washington lawyer who leads the Democratic National Committee’s legal efforts to fight voter suppression measures, said not a day goes by when he doesn’t field a question from senior Democratic officials about whether Mr. Trump could postpone or cancel the election. Prodded by allies to explain why not, Mr. Elias wrote a column on the subject in late March for his website — and it drew more traffic than anything he’d ever published.

'But changing the date of the election is not what worries Mr. Elias. The bigger threat in his mind is the possibility that the Trump administration could act in October to make it harder for people to vote in urban centers in battleground states — possibilities, he said, that include declaring a state of emergency, deploying the National Guard or forbidding gatherings of more than 10 people.

Mr. Trump has said he expects the election to be held on Nov. 3 as scheduled, and under federal law he does not have the power to unilaterally postpone it. But a recent comment by Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and adviser, about whether the election would be held as scheduled — “I’m not sure I can commit one way or the other,” he said — renewed fears that Mr. Trump would try to move the election, or discredit the balloting process, if he thought he was going to lose.'


Imagine if, in the Fall, the dreaded "second wave" of the covid-19 pandemic really does occur?

Who can even begin to pin down what happens if that unfolds.



It does not merely rise to the possible, but engages unto the realm of probability. An anyone gather it to above, say 10-25 percent?

Given the history of this administration, nothing can be excluded.
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Re: stay tuned!

Postby Ecmandu » Sun May 24, 2020 10:00 pm

Trump is a moral nihilist. No integrity whatsoever.

He says what he needs to say, does what he needs to do, to stay in power.

He doesn’t give a fuck about anyone or anything except himself.

People who think god hates them are trump supporters (which is a lot of people)!

They vote for trump to punish themselves because they believe they deserve someone who hates them to be president here.

Trump is mentally ill. So are they.
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Re: stay tuned!

Postby iambiguous » Sun May 24, 2020 10:09 pm

Ecmandu wrote:Trump is a moral nihilist. No integrity whatsoever.


Yeah, I tend to agree that, when push comes to shove, Trump is a "show me the money" moral nihilist.

On the other hand, Adolph Hitler, to the best of my knowledge, was a hardcore objectivist. And who would doubt that from the point of view of those who embraced him, he was bursting at the seams with integrity.

Indeed, imagine him and his ilk in power today!

On the other other hand, is it even possible to imagine political ideology making a comeback in our brutally deconstructed postmodern world?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: stay tuned!

Postby Meno_ » Sun May 24, 2020 10:43 pm

iambiguous wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:Trump is a moral nihilist. No integrity whatsoever.







Yeah, I tend to agree that, when push comes to shove, Trump is a "show me the money" moral nihilist.

On the other hand, Adolph Hitler, to the best of my knowledge, was a hardcore objectivist. And who would doubt that from the point of view of those who embraced him, he was bursting at the seams with integrity.

Indeed, imagine him and his ilk in power today!

On the other other hand, is it even possible to imagine political ideology making a comeback in our brutally deconstructed postmodern world?




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Re: stay tuned!

Postby Ecmandu » Mon May 25, 2020 4:26 pm

Another thing about trump is that his entire base is anti-intellectualism. Which is part of the post modern trope.

“Words are just words talking about words, so when you say something about me or anything for that matter, you’re not actually saying anything about anything or me!”

It’s to reject accountability. I understand why people don’t want accountability, trust me, I do! People fucked up hard on earth! But this is not the way to turn. Can you imagine a spirit of vengeance saying this to you as they torment you for eternity?!?!

It’d really piss you off! Post modernism pisses people off. I know people are scared of accountability, not just scared, but really scared! That’s what we’re seeing in the theater right now... tremendous fear.
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Re: stay tuned!

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Mon May 25, 2020 4:45 pm

Much as I am no Trump fan, it seems like the scenario doesn't include an explanation of how a fair election in a lockdown could take place. This would be a step into making a non-partisan preventative measure, rather than a conspiracy theory about something that hasn't happened. I haven't seen much interest in either Iamb or Meno for example in the possibility of a conspiracy potentially being behind events that HAVE actually happened. But they are interested in speculation about the conspiracy behind and event that has not happened.
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Re: stay tuned!

Postby Ecmandu » Mon May 25, 2020 5:06 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:Much as I am no Trump fan, it seems like the scenario doesn't include an explanation of how a fair election in a lockdown could take place. This would be a step into making a non-partisan preventative measure, rather than a conspiracy theory about something that hasn't happened. I haven't seen much interest in either Iamb or Meno for example in the possibility of a conspiracy potentially being behind events that HAVE actually happened. But they are interested in speculation about the conspiracy behind and event that has not happened.


Karpel,

It's enough just to know that the US can hack it's own elections even if that's not what's actually occurring! Like, you really expect us to just TRUST YOU?!?!

This problem is 30 years old right now! The biggest story in American history. Not a peep from news organizations. And because there's not a peep... we know for a fact that we live in a propaganda state (at a minimum!)

I still vote on the off chance these people are honest! But I know how to make voting anonymous and transparent! And nobody is even mentioning the problem! I consider all these presidents - misdirection presidents! Oh sure, Russia, right? No YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!!! The US can AT WILL hack their own elections!! That's the real issue here. The more drama, the less likely people are to not see the real issue here.

The "fair election lockdown" is misdirection Karpel! What? Voter suppression? Illegals voting? People voting twice with dead people?

ALL!!!!!! misdirection!!!
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Re: stay tuned!

Postby iambiguous » Mon May 25, 2020 5:37 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:Much as I am no Trump fan, it seems like the scenario doesn't include an explanation of how a fair election in a lockdown could take place. This would be a step into making a non-partisan preventative measure, rather than a conspiracy theory about something that hasn't happened. I haven't seen much interest in either Iamb or Meno for example in the possibility of a conspiracy potentially being behind events that HAVE actually happened. But they are interested in speculation about the conspiracy behind and event that has not happened.


A "fair" "nonpartisan" election?

Here's my very own "conspiracy theory" regarding that: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=173789&p=2187045&hilit=bullfrog+films#p2187045

Not that any of our speculations here aren't rooted in political prejudices encompassed in a "self" derived existentially from dasein.

Unless of course I'm wrong. :wink:
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: stay tuned!

Postby Meno_ » Mon May 25, 2020 7:17 pm

Karpel Tunnel said:

"haven't seen much interest in either Iamb or Meno for example in the possibility of a conspiracy potentially being behind events that HAVE actually happened. But they are interested in speculation about the conspiracy behind and event that has not happened."

Both sides of the political spectrum are playing for an optical veracity below the level probability, and so, the regress toward certainty is heard from both-right and left, within understandable limits that are credible up to certainty.

Therefore all pronouncements are merely based on variable probability, and while the regression is dynamically unrelenting, -a parallel anti dynamic is taking place: with an inversive process of degrees of conspiratorial charges reigning each other inward, leading toward das sein.
I think it's credible to presume a ontological frame, while fishing for more extended frames of reference, within it's ontic counterpart , because they have inverse presumeable inverse effects , .

That both can not play the intended roles simultaneously, is tantamount to the historical aspects of results that are effected by the failure of material dialectical maneuverability.

For both states have to interact on some level, but which is not available within say, a unitary field.

The either/or, one or the other state , has never really been shown as workable, except maybe within the realms of naive realism, which necessarily reduces any interpretation Into it'self , within the continuum of degrading languages , including the strictly codal ones of near certainty.

This is why the suspicion , that nearing the informationally redundant singularity, limits the size of microchips that can adapt more and more interphase information .

This conversion of both - the quantitative aspect, and the condition which can qualify to program that, appears to make a sense, commonly tend to increase function within heuristic criteria.

The resultant state of affairs of this conflict, can only work , if the scepter of over and/or undervaluation , not destroy the over all credibility of program models.

A guess maybe as good as any other.

Again,

"haven't seen much interest in either Iamb or Meno for example in the possibility of a conspiracy potentially being behind events that HAVE actually happened. But they are interested in speculation about the conspiracy behind and event that has not happened."

The 'reason' relies on an upper limit threshold, where any other justification dissolves below it into an ambiguous state of mixing levels of languages not meshing , expecting intensional usage to form sense data, the very kind that fails to convince naive realists that no, 'it is not conpiratorial'

Such convictions can not be apprehended within temporally present certainty, since the elements of conjecture have opined only unilaterally in the present.

The reactions to literal conjectures in the present , have not yet manifested a unitary and leveling meaning , between how the antithesis will be effected, whereby, a thetic understanding begs for an intentional response to form the synthetic unity.

This state in past conspiracies , does not 'evolve' into a higher understanding either, giving marketability to books like, 'None dare call it a Conpiracy'. But at least such can begin to open the avenues which can start to fathom the extent of logistics involved.

I guess, that is why the sealing of supposedly great historically significant mysteries has been mandated by the government.

The 'conpiracies' surrounding the JFK assassination is a prime example .
The investigative committee's results have been judged as conspiracies themselves to undermine suspicion that the suspected foul play was initiated from within the highest places of the U.S. government.


Therefore what inquiry into a past suspected conspiracy has itself been revised, hardened, and the marginal lines asserted, some of those can not really be finalized, definitive proofs gone cold, with the participiant witnesses gone or silenced.

Current suspected conspiracies are kind of ongoing works in progress, soft it'self that a quantum awareness of them can actually change opinions regarding to the merits of holding on to certain suppositions against others.

Current infiltration of conspiracies are in a sense, more alive, and having a potential to change course.
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Re: stay tuned!

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Tue May 26, 2020 8:03 am

Karpel Tunnel wrote:Much as I am no Trump fan, it seems like the scenario doesn't include an explanation of how a fair election in a lockdown could take place. This would be a step into making a non-partisan preventative measure, rather than a conspiracy theory about something that hasn't happened. I haven't seen much interest in either Iamb or Meno for example in the possibility of a conspiracy potentially being behind events that HAVE actually happened. But they are interested in speculation about the conspiracy behind and event that has not happened.


A "fair" "nonpartisan" election?
Regarding the specific issue of whether people will not be allowed to be in the same space, go to polling booths. In relation to that. Me, I think the US is an oligarchy. So, I do not think such an election is possible. However the fear around the conspiracy theory that has not happened in your OP seems to think that Trump will undermine something on grounds that would need to be taken care of REGARDLESS. The article is presuming some kind of fairness that this not yet happened conspiracy theory will undermine.

And notice how you do not respond to my post. You go tangential.
Here's my very own "conspiracy theory" regarding that: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=173789&p=2187045&hilit=bullfrog+films#p2187045
[/quote]Which I obviously agree with in a general way.

BUT IT'S NOT A CONSPIRACY THEORY.

What you have in the OP is a conspiracy theory, and one about the future.

One can put forward such economic critiques of the system, even radical ones, without getting classed as a conspiracy theorist.

But what you put forward in the OP is a conspiracy theory about events that have not happened. So far I have seen no real interest in or taking seriously any CT about events that have happened. But now you are putting out - as is the Times, obviously - a conspiracy theory about something that has not happened yet.

IOW one can believe and put forward theories that imbalances in power and weakness and loopholes in a system lead to injustice. Because that isn't a conspiracy. It's actually a bunch of separate agents all following greed and weaknesses in the system. Certainly there is some collaboration, but basically they are gaming the system. Write a letter to the Times describing what you do in the link above and you may get called a socialist or commie, but you will not get labelled a conspiracy theorist. You are tracking general patterns in a general society. Conspiracy theories are more focused, generally around specific events or introductions of tech. They do not track mere fallouts of weaknesses or injustices in a system. They are based on the idea that specific people in collaboration introduced or did something with a very specific goal in mind, did this in secret and with malicious intent.

Nice try. Or, really, your distractions and tangents not presented as tangents is tiring and disingenous.

I've put forward such critiques of what gets called capitalism and never got dismissed as a CT.

I also note that you do not respond to the core proactive question in my post. The article begs the question of what would allow for general suffrage in a lockdown. Bemoaning a potential conspiracy without then saying what, for example, Trump, The Supreme Court, Congress should do given that a lockdown prevents democratic participation, is pathetic. Especially given the participants history in relation to conspiracy theories.

If suddenly you are acknowledging that what get called conspiracy theories actually are possible, then you and the NYT and Meno need to own up to the fact that these things are possible and mainstream media and Snopes are not necessarily rebuttals to them.

For you anyone believing in a CT is someone hallucinating from a political agenda. And then you come along and pass on a CT about something that hasn't even happened.

I know, you couldn't understand this. Consider that it might be because it would be less than comforting to notice what you do here in interaction with other people.
Last edited by Karpel Tunnel on Tue May 26, 2020 1:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: stay tuned!

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Tue May 26, 2020 8:05 am

Meno_ wrote:Karpel Tunnel said:

"haven't seen much interest in either Iamb or Meno for example in the possibility of a conspiracy potentially being behind events that HAVE actually happened. But they are interested in speculation about the conspiracy behind and event that has not happened."

Both sides of the political spectrum......
I tried Meno, but I can't understand your post.
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Re: stay tuned!

Postby Meno_ » Tue May 26, 2020 3:04 pm

Ok I will try again , rewording.
I thought of an idea, and found, that others are entertaining it as well. At first it appears conspiratorial, then, given the kind of political miasma we
are living in, it becomes more obvious that nothing is excluded.

With the second wave coming, the grand opening that has now been achieved with a lot of fanfare, again there will be charged and countercharges.

Close to the election, the CVC may cry foul, and Trump will really get angry and repeat the charges against them and invalidate them.

Things escalating, a lot of non facts may create a panic of unreality, where the cynics, the only people remaining sane, will pronounce that Trump has become borderline dysfunctional .
At that point, a state of National emergency is declared, voting canceled, and Trump as Commander in Chief assumed war like powers until when He decides the time for an election.

This ideanappears preposterous. yet the Hungarian premier has done it, the Phillippine President as well, and of this still does not quell the public outcry, and the containment of internal negative sentiment. a way the dog environment willexport the internal strife.
This kind of political desperation would successfully illustrate, the anomalous solution between a present and a past conglomeration of temporally designated conspiracy, because the seeds for it have already be down, and only the wait for it's fruition is what is left.
There is a.conspiratorial process underneath the alleged swamp, that is the reverse of what is designated by the Republicans. They are the ones to have inflamed things that filled the swamp, rather then to drain it.
This is why things are in the condition politically as they are, and there is no unraveling, because other 'conspiracies' can ad hoc be invented to circumvent them.

Marvel, mind You, this may only probably happen, if, other means may not become expedient in the coming months.

I would have thought this type of.conspiracy insane until a few weeks ago. where others were beginning to take it seriously.
This air of.separation has not yet passed, nor has.actually began.
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Re: stay tuned!

Postby iambiguous » Tue May 26, 2020 5:09 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote: Much as I am no Trump fan, it seems like the scenario doesn't include an explanation of how a fair election in a lockdown could take place. This would be a step into making a non-partisan preventative measure, rather than a conspiracy theory about something that hasn't happened. I haven't seen much interest in either Iamb or Meno for example in the possibility of a conspiracy potentially being behind events that HAVE actually happened. But they are interested in speculation about the conspiracy behind and event that has not happened.


A "fair" "nonpartisan" election?


Karpel Tunnel wrote: Regarding the specific issue of whether people will not be allowed to be in the same space, go to polling booths. In relation to that. Me, I think the US is an oligarchy. So, I do not think such an election is possible. However the fear around the conspiracy theory that has not happened in your OP seems to think that Trump will undermine something on grounds that would need to be taken care of REGARDLESS. The article is presuming some kind of fairness that this not yet happened conspiracy theory will undermine.

And notice how you do not respond to my post. You go tangential.



Here's my very own "conspiracy theory" regarding that: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=173789&p=2187045&hilit=bullfrog+films#p2187045


Karpel Tunnel wrote: Which I obviously agree with in a general way.

BUT IT'S NOT A CONSPIRACY THEORY.

What you have in the OP is a conspiracy theory, and one about the future.

One can put forward such economic critiques of the system, even radical ones, without getting classed as a conspiracy theorist.

But what you put forward in the OP is a conspiracy theory about events that have not happened. So far I have seen no real interest in or taking seriously any CT about events that have happened. But now you are putting out - as is the Times, obviously - a conspiracy theory about something that has not happened yet.

IOW one can believe and put forward theories that imbalances in power and weakness and loopholes in a system lead to injustice. Because that isn't a conspiracy. It's actually a bunch of separate agents all following greed and weaknesses in the system. Certainly there is some collaboration, but basically they are gaming the system. Write a letter to the Times describing what you do in the link above and you may get called a socialist or commie, but you will not get labelled a conspiracy theorist. You are tracking general patterns in a general society. Conspiracy theories are more focused, generally around specific events or introductions of tech. They do not track mere fallouts of weaknesses or injustices in a system. They are based on the idea that specific people in collaboration introduced or did something with a very specific goal in mind, did this in secret and with malicious intent.

Nice try. Or, really, your distractions and tangents not presented as tangents is tiring and disingenous.

I've put forward such critiques of what gets called capitalism and never got dismissed as a CT.

I also note that you do not respond to the core proactive question in my post. The article begs the question of what would allow for general suffrage in a lockdown. Bemoaning a potential conspiracy without then saying what, for example, Trump, The Supreme Court, Congress should do given that a lockdown prevents democratic participation, is pathetic. Especially given the participants history in relation to conspiracy theories.

If suddenly you are acknowledging that what get called conspiracy theories actually are possible, then you and the NYT and Meno need to own up to the fact that these things are possible and mainstream media and Snopes are not necessarily rebuttals to them.

For you anyone believing in a CT is someone hallucinating from a political agenda. And then you come along and pass on a CT about something that hasn't even happened.

I know, you couldn't understand this. Consider that it might be because it would be less than comforting to notice what you do here in interaction with other people.



Note to myself:

Can you fucking believe this?!

Some reporter at the NYT, perhaps extrapolating from the past regarding Trump's alleged conspiratorial interactions with Putin and the Russians to steal the 2016 election, speculates about whether Trump might conspire -- behind the scenes, behind the curtains -- with Barr and others to upend the 2020 election as well. In order to assure himself either another "victory" or a postponement/cancelation of the election itself.

But fuck all that. By far the most important thing to note here is that iambiguous is up to his old tricks again.

It is ever and always about him. His distractions and tangents and "asshole" behavior. His "trolling".

Note to others:

What on earth is going on here?! Why does iambiguous so infuriate this guy? :lol:
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: stay tuned!

Postby Meno_ » Tue May 26, 2020 10:21 pm

And yet, facts are facts. And the number one numero uno fact remains, that everyone and anyone in today's 'democratic U.S., remains on an immersive- note: not congestive plateau, of selling their dear grandma to the highest bidder, if only to get out of debt, and I challenge any one, including You , Lamb, to demonstrate otherwise.

That: most electorate will bide by the one who takes primarily that , which mainly concerns the economic welfare of those, who are burdened by supporting those, who have not yet perished.

Social benefit us a concern for the living, not of a pathos of instigated mix, of who is behind it and what if any gain can manifest out of it.

That is the primary essence of fidelity to those who find themselves in a ximlromusing situation.
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Re: stay tuned!

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Wed May 27, 2020 8:22 am

Meno_ wrote:Ok I will try again , rewording.
Thank you, I could get most of this, I think.

I thought of an idea, and found, that others are entertaining it as well. At first it appears conspiratorial, then, given the kind of political miasma we
are living in, it becomes more obvious that nothing is excluded.
To me people in power have always been capable of the most horrendous abuses. Adn this does not require believing in what get called conspiracy theories, but rather consensus historical facts ( with some outlier deniers). And this includes by US administrations.

At that point, a state of National emergency is declared, voting canceled, and Trump as Commander in Chief assumed war like powers until when He decides the time for an election.
Sure, possible. But we have a news organization that dismisses CTs as only coming from deluded hatefilled racist minds, now projecting a conspiracy that hasn't even happened yet. And making no comment on the discrepency.

This ideanappears preposterous.

Not to me. But my focus is on the discrepency and the lack of proactive reaction. Whether he does this or now, if there is a lockdown widespread participation in democracy is threatened. I think it's an oligarchy, but for those who don't which includes the organization writing the article, they could start a dialogue about how to solve the core problem and eliminate the excuse for a power grab. I think it is telling that they don't.

I would have thought this type of.conspiracy insane until a few weeks ago.
Right. They have been considered insane. I don't know what history or what planet led to this kid of blanket conclusion, given that we know horrific conspiracies have been carried out, even by democratic administrations - Kissinger/Nixon illegal bombing of Laos and CAmbodia as part of a war started via a false flag operation (all just plain old textbook mainstream history), the bs justification for Iraq war 2 as a couple of american examples.

We know what countries are capable of doing to even their own people. But it's only when Trump comes along that suddenly CTs are possible, but, again, only in relation to Trump.

I think most people are deluded in this area.
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Re: stay tuned!

Postby iambiguous » Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:17 pm

On the other hand...

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/202 ... leave.html

'If Trump could get away with refusing to leave the Oval Office, in order “to extend his autocratic power,” as Cohen put it, he probably would. But he wouldn’t get away with it; those around him would almost certainly advise him against it, if he asked; therefore my guess is, he won’t try. Then again, in recent years many things have happened that I would have bet against.'

Fast forward...

'So it’s the morning of Jan. 20, 2021. Trump doesn’t meet President-elect Joe Biden and his wife in the White House driveway, nor does he attend the inauguration on Capitol Hill. Instead, he proclaims, as he has many times by this point, that the election was a fraud (he has set the stage for this with his false claims about mail-in ballots), and at noon, instead of acceding to the transfer of power, Trump proclaims that the swearing in was FAKE NEWS and that he remains the president.

Here is what would happen next.

On the dot of noon, the nuclear codes, which currently allow Trump to order and authenticate a nuclear attack, expire. The officer who has been following him around everywhere with the “football”—which, contrary to popular belief, is not a button or a palm print but rather a book filled with various launch codes—leaves. If Trump and whatever lackeys stay with him prevent the officer from leaving, another officer, holding a backup football, would join Biden at the inauguration ceremony.

By the same token, the entire U.S. military establishment will pivot away from ex-President Trump and salute President Biden. The principle of civilian control is hammered into American officers from the time they’re cadets—and the 20th Amendment of the Constitution states, “The terms of the President and Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January”—no ifs, ands, or buts.

If Trump orders the military to do anything, they will refuse his order. If any officers obey his order—say, to circle the White House to keep him in power—they would certainly be tried and convicted on charges of mutiny and sedition, and they would know this before taking the leap.

Meanwhile, the Secret Service will abandon Trump, as they do every president whose term is up, except for a small detail assigned to protect him and his family for the rest of their lives.'


This part in particular:

'The principle of civilian control is hammered into American officers from the time they’re cadets—and the 20th Amendment of the Constitution states, “The terms of the President and Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January”—no ifs, ands, or buts."'

That's really what it comes down to: Will or will not the military hierarchy play by the rules? In fact, right now there is talk of Trump using the military to quell the protests and riots revolving around the death of George Floyd. How far will that go?


Stay tuned.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

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Re: stay tuned!

Postby iambiguous » Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:24 pm

'Mr. Trump suggested that he might not accept the results of the election should he lose. Mr. Wallace, who spent the interview grilling the president — a tactic he has used in other high-profile interviews — pointed out that Mr. Trump said the same thing in 2016.

'“You don’t know until you see,” Mr. Trump said. “It depends. I think mail-in voting is going to rig the election. I really do.”

'Mr. Trump, who has voted by mail, has repeatedly warned, without evidence, that mail elections would involve robbed mailboxes, forged signatures and ballots printed by foreign countries.'
NYT

As of now, we are 106 days, 7 hours and 38 minutes away from the election: https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/e ... 20Election

So, what are the odds here...50/50?
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
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Re: stay tuned!

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:23 pm

iambiguous wrote:'Mr. Trump suggested that he might not accept the results of the election should he lose. Mr. Wallace, who spent the interview grilling the president — a tactic he has used in other high-profile interviews — pointed out that Mr. Trump said the same thing in 2016.

'“You don’t know until you see,” Mr. Trump said. “It depends. I think mail-in voting is going to rig the election. I really do.”

'Mr. Trump, who has voted by mail, has repeatedly warned, without evidence, that mail elections would involve robbed mailboxes, forged signatures and ballots printed by foreign countries.'
NYT

As of now, we are 106 days, 7 hours and 38 minutes away from the election: https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/e ... 20Election

So, what are the odds here...50/50?


K: as this president always, always previews his own strategy and his own crimes,
is telling us that is exactly what they intend to do... mail in ballots from other countries,
say, you know Russia... and forge signatures from, you know Russia and other voter
suppression tactics...the GOP is very well known for.....

they are already trying to steal this election... a statement from Russia is quite
interesting: someone in the Russian Parliament has said, that without Facebook, they
couldn't have stole the last American election.... and its true... I have seen quite a bit of
anti-democratic party and anti-democracy stories on facebook already... they are setting the
story of how they intend to steal democracy by posting anti-democratic party postings...

so the odds of them attempting to steal the election, by one form or another is
100%.. for example, in the 2000 election, Gore actually won the election but it was stolen
by the United States Supreme court in bush vs gore....

of the last in 5 out of 6 elections, the democrat won the election by winning the
popular vote... the only election won by the GOP since 2000 was the 2004 election...
every other election since then has been won in popular voting was a democrat...

2016 was no exception, Hilary won the popular vote by almost 3 million votes and
given the current GOP stealing elections mission, she most likely won by over 4 million
votes and that needs to be the way it works... if you win the popular margin, you win the
election.....just like in every other single political race in America........

so, the attempt to steal the election is going to be 100% by the GOP...

but here, given how historically unpopular IQ45 is, he may lose by historic
margins and I hope to never see a republican president again in my lifetime....

Kropotkin
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wind up with neither."
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Re: stay tuned!

Postby Meno_ » Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:03 am

Its beyond worrying over constitutional issues, its the military industrial complex is the most pressing issue to unravel, ex pres Eisenhower predicted it.

Despite the war against intelligence, the re position of military chiefs being only ploys to further depose and displace ideologically vacuous spaces, - which constituted inviolable gaps in simulated conflict- the prez 45 among them, it is the geophysical reality of how the NWO may look like, even if it comes to That.

What that is is left to Your optically subsumed Fata Morgan's of illusive opinions.

Of course I may be effected here in low Vegas.

High crimes and misdemeanors are surely in need of a provisional revision, as some scholars are sure to think.
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Re: stay tuned!

Postby iambiguous » Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:58 pm

This...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/20/opin ... e=Homepage

'Headline: Trump’s Occupation of American Cities Has Begun

'The month after Donald Trump’s inauguration, the Yale historian Timothy Snyder published the best-selling book “On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons From the Twentieth Century.” It was part of a small flood of titles meant to help Americans find their bearings as the new president laid siege to liberal democracy.

One of Snyder’s lessons was, “Be wary of paramilitaries.” He wrote, “When the pro-leader paramilitary and the official police and military intermingle, the end has come.” In 2017, the idea of unidentified agents in camouflage snatching leftists off the streets without warrants might have seemed like a febrile Resistance fantasy. Now it’s happening.'

'The Trump administration has announced that it intends to send a similar force to other cities; on Monday, The Chicago Tribune reported on plans to deploy about 150 federal agents to Chicago. “I don’t need invitations by the state,” Chad Wolf, acting secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, said on Fox News Monday, adding, “We’re going to do that whether they like us there or not.”'


...may or may not be related to Trump's reaction if he loses the election in November.

But: Let's face it, given 1] the coronavirus 2] the economic crisis and 3] the social unrest of late, we are at a pivotal juncture in American history. Who can really predict how far things will go? If, in the Fall, all three are enflamed all the more, well, given Trump to date, you do the political math.

This video is included in the op-ed:

https://www.nytimes.com/video/opinion/1 ... trump.html
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: stay tuned!

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:18 pm

iambiguous wrote:This...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/20/opin ... e=Homepage

'Headline: Trump’s Occupation of American Cities Has Begun

'The month after Donald Trump’s inauguration, the Yale historian Timothy Snyder published the best-selling book “On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons From the Twentieth Century.” It was part of a small flood of titles meant to help Americans find their bearings as the new president laid siege to liberal democracy.

One of Snyder’s lessons was, “Be wary of paramilitaries.” He wrote, “When the pro-leader paramilitary and the official police and military intermingle, the end has come.” In 2017, the idea of unidentified agents in camouflage snatching leftists off the streets without warrants might have seemed like a febrile Resistance fantasy. Now it’s happening.'

'The Trump administration has announced that it intends to send a similar force to other cities; on Monday, The Chicago Tribune reported on plans to deploy about 150 federal agents to Chicago. “I don’t need invitations by the state,” Chad Wolf, acting secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, said on Fox News Monday, adding, “We’re going to do that whether they like us there or not.”'


...may or may not be related to Trump's reaction if he loses the election in November.

But: Let's face it, given 1] the coronavirus 2] the economic crisis and 3] the social unrest of late, we are at a pivotal juncture in American history. Who can really predict how far things will go? If, in the Fall, all three are enflamed all the more, well, given Trump to date, you do the political math.

This video is included in the op-ed:

https://www.nytimes.com/video/opinion/1 ... trump.html



K: I for one, don't believe this issue has been highlighted enough.....
IQ45 has taken dictatorship 101 and that starts with troops in the streets....
to allegedly to "prevent anarchist and liberals" to destroy property...
and what weak excuse that is... is property more important then
people? Well yes, to a conservative... the preservation of property
is the highest value of the conservative... see Locke for that....

the value of the state is to protect property..

lives, not so much.... we see time and again, conservatives approve
of capital punishment for a variety of crimes and we see conservatives
approval of the American gun culture which is predicated upon the
use of violence... to own a gun is to approve of violence for that is
what a gun does.. it is a means of violence... it has no other use....

the continue militarization of America comes from the conservative
fears.. to militarize the police is to escalate the violence the police
can use.....

if the right fought for peace as much as it does for violence,
the world would be a far safer place...

the use of troops in democratic cities isn't to deescalate violence, it
is to increase it.. for political purposes.. to 'prove" that the greatest
criminal ever elected for president is the "law and order" president.....

and more importantly, this trial run of sending troops into democratic
cities seems to me to be a trial run for when IQ45 loses the election
and he sends troops into the streets to hold onto power.....

I fear for our country because if he sends in troops into cities,
that it could lead down the path of dictatorship.. using troops to
hold power is an old trick by dictators... one that both Stalin
and Hitler used....nothing good, absolutely nothing good can come
out of sending troops into cities.... it is dictatorship 101.....
and a preview of our very near future....

Liberals are trying to maintain democracy and conservatives
are hell bent on creating a dictatorship.........

whose side are you on?

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
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Re: stay tuned!

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:05 pm

however, I must note that all those "patriots" who claim
to own guns to fight government tyranny, are really quiet..
I'm mean cricket quiet....

We have government forces on the Streets of a major American city
practicing just the thing that the gun culture in America has been
predicting for decades. Government forces pulling people off the streets
in unmarked cars and vans without any, any justification for these
"arrests" and detaining them without any legal justification.....
this is a travesty of the rights of American citizens and yet, not
a peep from those who claim to uphold American rights with guns....

so only two possibilities exists, either they just don't give a shit about
any potential government tyranny or they are just gutless cowards
who run away from from any potential conflict unless they can
have a sizable advantage even with guns.... 8 guys with guns attacking
one women type of thing.. which is something gutless cowards love to do...

try to feel brave while attacking people who can't fight back...

I cannot believe the silence the right wing is doing while basic American rights
are being taken away by troops in the streets... you would think that this
is the entire point of the bill of rights.. but not to conservatives....

J'ACCUSE.... the conservative faction which resides in America are
really gutless cowards

J'ACCUSE... the conservative faction of America doesn't give a shit
about the constitution or the bill of rights....

J'ACCUSE.... the right wing of hiding when the government tyranny which they
have so long predicted finally comes....and they are hiding in their basements....

one cannot say enough bad things about the gutless right wing....

they cannot even follow through on the one thing they claim to fight
which is government tyranny....

Kropotkin
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wind up with neither."
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Re: stay tuned!

Postby iambiguous » Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:02 pm

Authoritarianism.

Which, from my frame of mind, is the moral and the political equivalent of objectivism.

Below is a NYT op-ed that basically embraces the belief that conservatives are far more likely to embody authoritarian personalities than liberals. Something that, as an "existential contraption" rooted subjectively in my own political prejudices rooted in dasein, I have long believed.

Though I'm sure conservatives here can concoct their own "intellectual" assessment to "prove" just the opposite.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/22/opin ... e=Homepage

What I am always quick to interject with here, however, is speculation that many politicians and Wall Street magnates -- crony capitalists -- are basically moral and political nihilists instead. They may come off as dogmatic politically, but their main concern is always the bottom line: show me the money. The powerful nabobs across the globe that in an amoral manner own the operate the global economy.

Donald Trump? Which one is he?

I don't know. Not really. But if come November the coronavirus has exploded given an even more virulent second wave, the economy is at the breaking point and social unrest is at or beyond the boiling over, it's certainly possible that Trump and/or the deep state ruling class in America may actually choose to "cancel" the results if Trump loses.

Thus: "stay tuned".
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: stay tuned!

Postby iambiguous » Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:12 pm

Another take on our "what if?" scenario

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... Fstory-ans


'President Trump is laying the groundwork to do something that no previous president has ever done: falsely claim that an election was fixed against him in order to discredit the vote. Trump has repeatedly — and incorrectly — claimed the election will be “rigged” against him. By promoting a series of wacky, debunked conspiracy theories, he has primed his supporters to wrongly believe he is the victim of some unknown, shadowy “deep state” plot. In an interview that aired last week, he refused to commit to accepting the results in November.'

'Such crises never happen in other functioning democracies. But they happen all the time in broken countries around the world. In contentious elections from Africa to southeast Asia, incumbents who lose often refuse to accept defeat. Welcome to the club, America!

'All the warning lights are blinking red. University of Birmingham professor Nic Cheeseman , an expert on contentious elections and political violence with whom I co-authored the book “How to Rig an Election,” normally worries when contested votes happen in Kenya or Zimbabwe. Now, he’s worried about the United States. “There are five warning I always look for,” he told me. “Organized militias, a leader who is not prepared to lose, distrust of the political system, disinformation, and a potentially close contest. Right now, the U.S. has all five.”'


On the other hand, others argue that there is a greater likelihood that the election will not be close. That Biden could win by double digits. What then if the other four lights are still blinking red?

Then this part:

'Consider ourselves warned. The question, then, is: What do we do about it? If Trump ends up trying to torch crucial norms of democracy in order to save face, how can we prepare? Other countries offer a series of lessons we should urgently learn from, so that if (or when) the worst happens, Trump’s matches don’t light.'

Also, there's this: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... wa-mahdawi

If staying out of the slammer means staying in the Oval Office, that just one more reason for Trump not to pull any punches in November.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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