The Fourteen Cosmological Arguments for the Existence of God

Well… let’s not get ahead of ourselves here! Like old times… do you want to debate me?

I’ll keep it congenial.

Of course, I will debate you and everyone else!

I love it!

So here’s the deal John…

Let’s not start easy.

The only Omni-State that anyone in existence cares about is:

Omni-Benevolence

Nobody cares about the other ones!

Now, as you stated in our prior thread (which I thought was brilliant!) “our suffering in this life may not compare the the sufferings god can wrought upon us” (so we shouldn’t complain)…

Absolutely true by the way!!

The question I pose you then… could it be even better?

Why do you think God is not omnibenevolent?

Because it’s possible to create an existence where nobody’s consent is ever violated!

Pretty simple.

Are you sure about that?

Do you believe in evolution?

Why not? But, like I stated before, if god has the powers to make life worse than this at will (borrowing one of your quotes from 5 years ago) then god certainly has the power (even given evolution) to make it better, right?

Or not right?

Depends on the extent to which God interferes with evolution. Evolution is the process by which humanity is created and that process creates a great deal of suffering. Why don’t you blame evolution for human suffering?

I’m an atheist John, who was hit by a freight train by the spiritual world 12 years ago! I was dragged into the spirit world “kicking and screaming”

I know gods exist. I’ve seen their VAST powers directly!

But what about THEE god? No. Such a being has not been born yet.

So that’s where I’m coming from in this debate.

Do you mean that it’s impossible for god to create evolution without involuntary suffering?

Is that your stance?

Yes, that’s right.

Read #1 of OP. Understand the idea of everythingness.

God’s power to create is uncaused. That means that God has no choice over the building blocks for the universe.

Well, let me tell you a story then!

When you look into a mirror, you see a non-sentient reflection.

What is a hyper-dimensional mirror?

A fully reflected immersive reality!

It’s impossible to even hurt a microbe, a plant or an atom… because they are all reflected from platonic (eternal) forms as templates.

Now, in your current “mindsphere”, you think we must suffer to evolve on someone else’s terms besides our own terms over the course of infinite life. This is factually not true

Comment and ask more!

God’s power to create is uncaused. That means that God must use the building blocks He has. Read #1 and understand everythingness.

I just gave you the building blocks god has at disposal, they actually exist and are better than this world life.

So let me ask you this again:

Since you obviously believe god can always make life worse, is it against your belief that god can make life better?

It depends on the extent to which God interferes with evolution. God chooses the greater good - to let humans come into existence through evolution which brings suffering. And let’s not forget the existence of those yet to come through evolution.

Interesting (I’m being sarcastic somewhat)

So god (who created evolution never interferes with it!?!?!)

God interfered with ALL of evolution based on the standard definition of god, that god knew everything that was subsequently going to happen after creation!!

Why would god (omnibenevolent and by default, omnipotent) create a consent violating reality for anyone?

In hyper-dimensional mirror realities, you can explore consent violation ON YOUR OWN TERMS!!! You’d still eventually learn everything over infinite time, just on your terms, not on the dictators terms.

I often tell people that what they do to god is a projection of what they’d want others to do for them if they were god!

Punishing your creations. Being the grand dictator. Bowing. Praying. Worshiping. Building monuments (churches, temples, synagogues). The manner in which you conceive god says all about you!

God’s power to create is uncaused. God’s power to create is in harmony with everythingness. God’s power to create uses particular building blocks, such as atoms. Atoms do not care about suffering. God uses atoms to create evolution which causes suffering. But, don’t blame God. Blame evolution and atoms. God chooses the greater good to allow us to exist than to not exist. Plus, everythingness itself has certain characteristics where the simple greatly outnumbers the complex because the simple is more multitudinous than the complex in everythingness. There are certain uncaused aspects of creation that only allow God to create in certain ways.

Ok I can’t stAnd the excitement:
We are God.
We are within the highest agents provocateur behind this god conspiracy, so far at least here and now, we are the primal motive behind CreAtion.

So all Your arguments and those of yesteryear are right on the money.

Even the worst of us, but we can not realize it in the here and now. Because all we think about is time, and what’s next on the agenda , and just can’t wait to get THERE.

I just got there , wanted to leave first, but beat me to it.

Now I am no longer her

Sounds like you’re talking about some sort of universal consciousness?

Yes a kind of transcendental pantheism

John,

I’m going to be blunt with you.

Atoms suffer. Atoms feel joy.

The doors of perception haven’t been opened to you yet. If god were real, that would be gods fault and not anyone elses.