The Fourteen Cosmological Arguments for the Existence of God

Depends on the extent to which God interferes with evolution. Evolution is the process by which humanity is created and that process creates a great deal of suffering. Why don’t you blame evolution for human suffering?

I’m an atheist John, who was hit by a freight train by the spiritual world 12 years ago! I was dragged into the spirit world “kicking and screaming”

I know gods exist. I’ve seen their VAST powers directly!

But what about THEE god? No. Such a being has not been born yet.

So that’s where I’m coming from in this debate.

Do you mean that it’s impossible for god to create evolution without involuntary suffering?

Is that your stance?

Yes, that’s right.

Read #1 of OP. Understand the idea of everythingness.

God’s power to create is uncaused. That means that God has no choice over the building blocks for the universe.

Well, let me tell you a story then!

When you look into a mirror, you see a non-sentient reflection.

What is a hyper-dimensional mirror?

A fully reflected immersive reality!

It’s impossible to even hurt a microbe, a plant or an atom… because they are all reflected from platonic (eternal) forms as templates.

Now, in your current “mindsphere”, you think we must suffer to evolve on someone else’s terms besides our own terms over the course of infinite life. This is factually not true

Comment and ask more!

God’s power to create is uncaused. That means that God must use the building blocks He has. Read #1 and understand everythingness.

I just gave you the building blocks god has at disposal, they actually exist and are better than this world life.

So let me ask you this again:

Since you obviously believe god can always make life worse, is it against your belief that god can make life better?

It depends on the extent to which God interferes with evolution. God chooses the greater good - to let humans come into existence through evolution which brings suffering. And let’s not forget the existence of those yet to come through evolution.

Interesting (I’m being sarcastic somewhat)

So god (who created evolution never interferes with it!?!?!)

God interfered with ALL of evolution based on the standard definition of god, that god knew everything that was subsequently going to happen after creation!!

Why would god (omnibenevolent and by default, omnipotent) create a consent violating reality for anyone?

In hyper-dimensional mirror realities, you can explore consent violation ON YOUR OWN TERMS!!! You’d still eventually learn everything over infinite time, just on your terms, not on the dictators terms.

I often tell people that what they do to god is a projection of what they’d want others to do for them if they were god!

Punishing your creations. Being the grand dictator. Bowing. Praying. Worshiping. Building monuments (churches, temples, synagogues). The manner in which you conceive god says all about you!

God’s power to create is uncaused. God’s power to create is in harmony with everythingness. God’s power to create uses particular building blocks, such as atoms. Atoms do not care about suffering. God uses atoms to create evolution which causes suffering. But, don’t blame God. Blame evolution and atoms. God chooses the greater good to allow us to exist than to not exist. Plus, everythingness itself has certain characteristics where the simple greatly outnumbers the complex because the simple is more multitudinous than the complex in everythingness. There are certain uncaused aspects of creation that only allow God to create in certain ways.

Ok I can’t stAnd the excitement:
We are God.
We are within the highest agents provocateur behind this god conspiracy, so far at least here and now, we are the primal motive behind CreAtion.

So all Your arguments and those of yesteryear are right on the money.

Even the worst of us, but we can not realize it in the here and now. Because all we think about is time, and what’s next on the agenda , and just can’t wait to get THERE.

I just got there , wanted to leave first, but beat me to it.

Now I am no longer her

Sounds like you’re talking about some sort of universal consciousness?

Yes a kind of transcendental pantheism

John,

I’m going to be blunt with you.

Atoms suffer. Atoms feel joy.

The doors of perception haven’t been opened to you yet. If god were real, that would be gods fault and not anyone elses.

Sounds like you are also proposing universal consciousness?

So, where was this universal consciousness before life existed? And where was it before the Big Bang?

Existence has never not existed. God or not. That’s an easy proof to make. It’s necessary as a proof, to that necessity, god is merely a contingency.

I was very brief . would like to elaborate.

I have a blog going in a different forum in psychology that explains it more on detail of the notion that perhaps may shed more light.
Just read a very enlightening book by Brown Weiss , at once brilliant and sedating.

It’s title is 'Many Lives, Many Masters.
At first it seemed like a work in irony, but afterwards it not only made sense, but had a very sobering effect.

The idea of reincarnation through hypnotic regression, reveals a patient suffering from various fears and obsessions, being able, to reveal an undercurrent of multiple lifetimes.
All of the life times show various upward manifestations of the evolving differ in human beings , all essentially appearing as differing bodies.

This idea matches and reflects the Buddhic idea of reincarnation , and the more recent trans-humanistic progression are similar, as well.

The idea being is that the western phenomenal philosophy is reflected in the vastly earlier nominal ideas in the Vedas.

The idea that each individual person possesses individuality, although merely based on an ontological semantic analysis, signals an up and coming closure with the current signs. They are never formally ‘identical’ but is based on more objective criteria formed out of the mirror effect.
In other words we as individuals can never see ourselves completely, because our image of our self is a composite of other’s impression .

Evolution plays a part , where Nature develops more receptive neurological systems producing lessening sodferentiability between the image and the concept of the self.

Higher evolution toward succeeding elevation of levels , ultimately lead to the approach toward increasing closeness the levels approaching the absolute.

This absolute is not ever an ideal set of unity , but contain several sets getfing closer to each other through identifiable members of variety of differing sets .

The Quasi simulated sets implement such evolution and become part of the evolving 'natural
schema. At some point, they also become undifferentiable, and set again in an upward pro-position.

This idea appears to augment the cosmological arguments for God, rather then detracting from them.

Physical reality has not always existed. Physical reality was created. God is not a contingency. God is an uncaused creator of physical reality. Read #4 and #5. Time and natural causation had to begin. That which caused their beginning cannot be subject to time or natural causation. That leaves out every form of natural explanation because all such explanations are subject to time and natural causation. The best explanation remaining is an uncaused metaphysical cause of physical reality we call God.

Well John…

Actually what happens is this:

The non existence of non existence is existence; the existence of existence is existence. The existence of non existence is impossible (if it exists, it can’t be non existence!). The non existence of existence, if it ever occurs, past, present or future means that we couldn’t possibly be here right now, for us, here right now is merely a subset, we can prove that the non existence of existence never did occur, nor will it ever occur.

A single being cannot be omniscient, omnipresent or omnipotent - for one, infinity never ends; we can get into the real proofs other than this later if you press me on this topic. Think about it this way though… how do you hold EVERY counting number in your head all at once? They don’t end!

This gets to my next point. Our temporal reality is an error message of existence trying to be itself… infinite! When it tries to be itself (infinite); this is impossible, so what happens is the error message produces everything we know or see or can know or see. That’s why time exists.

I’m just making scribbled notes here. If you keep pressing me, I’ll teach you everything that I know about this.

No surprise, I don’t agree with anything you said.

Absolute nothingness can be understood as the absence of God and any physical reality God made. Sure, it’s not a typical state of existence, but it is an understandable uncaused metaphysical hypothetical. It’s not a subset, but one side of a dichotomy where both sides are uncaused. Absolute nothingness can never become the case, because the other side being the case can never be destroyed because it’s uncaused. An uncaused thing cannot be made of parts else those parts would cause it. Without parts, it cannot be destroyed because destruction is the disassociation of parts.

Well… if you don’t agree with ANYTHING that I said, that’s the end of this discussion!

The non existence of non existence HAS to be existence.

The existence of existence HAS to be existence.

If you cannot use basic logic on a truth table, we can’t discuss that further. I was hoping you’d discuss it further.

Let me offer you this: existence requires otherness in order to be or to be abstracted by any possible being.

Let’s work with omniscience for a moment:

1.) If you know every reason why everything occurs and all of those reasons are outside of you, then there is no “you” to abstract … which is non being (lack of otherness)

2.) if you know every reason why everything occurs and all of those reasons are internal, then you know no reason why anything is outside of you (again, lack of otherness) - which is non-being!

What this all means is that Omni-states are impossible!

If a being knows some things and not others, it doesn’t have an omni-state!