The Fourteen Cosmological Arguments for the Existence of God

That means otherness is outside of god. If god didn’t invent or create otherness, that means there’s something greater than god.

Here’s the deal John, I know you’re not a logitician, actually, I know you hate logic.

God is uncaused. God’s uncaused mind and uncaused knowledge is God. It’s not greater than God.

Otherness is greater than every being in existence!

Your exact quote: “god doesn’t create otherness” “but god knows otherness”

God doesn’t create what god knows?

John, let me be blunt to you. No being in all of existence exists without otherness. God included.

God has uncaused knowledge and uncaused power to create otherness in physical reality. God does not need physical reality to exist.

That’s not true. Space is defined as “otherness”. Time is defined as “patterned motion“. God cannot exist without either of those.

Space is defined as spacetime or the quantum field. Time is defined as a real dimension of spacetime. God creates spacetime.

John replied to ecmandu saying this to John:

“Space is defined as “otherness”. Time is defined as “patterned motion“. God cannot exist without either of those.”

My definitions are perfect John. Yours are barely legible…

My definitions are scientifically acceptable. Your’s aren’t.

My definitions are self evidently true.

Quantum (whatever you’re trying to say here (just looks like a mash of words to me to make it sound intelligent and true)) anyways ‘quantum’ is a subset of otherness. Otherness is exactly what space is, there is no other possible solution to that definition.

My definition of time is also perfect. Patterned motion. Again, it’s self evidently true. If motion has no pattern, no being can perceive that motion. Since the motion can be perceived, it’s obviously patterned in some form.

Again, god cannot exist without otherness, god cannot exist without patterned motion. God is dependent on these, these are not dependent upon god.

Why would discreteness prove a beginning to the Universe?

I just have to laugh that you’re avoiding my last post.

Anyways to answer this question. You’re the one in this thread who declared that the universe was discrete. Not me. Not gib. Both of us pointed out that even if existence is composed of digital rather than analogue that it could still go back forever.

Too bad. Thought you were on to something there.

‘Something’ to you, meaning, defending an indefensible god concept you have in your head.

Of course, in the real world, I am on to something.

Between the units? As in, between each frame? I wouldn’t think there is any time between consecutive chunks of time regardless of quantization or not (that’s what consecutive means).

So during each frame, the universe stands still? And then when it moves to the next frame, every particle “leaps” to its next position?

By “upper limit”, I assume these units could be shorter, but it couldn’t be much longer.

In any case, this just comes across to me as an idea. Maybe it’s true, maybe it isn’t. Even if it’s true, I don’t see why it requires a “first frame”.

Another inadvertent interjection:

Analogy to {The Law} may be appropriate:

In one case a preponderance of evidence may suffice 60/40. and/Or
60>59.999999999…/39.999999999.
and/or, beyond<…00000000001(a reasonable doubt)>000000000…
.

No. The Universe does not exist without time. The universe is each frame becoming.

A preponderance is greater than 50.0%. Beyond a reasonable doubt does not have an assigned percentage, but it’s way less than 100% certainty.

John wrote: “no. The universe does not exist without time”

Me: that’s correct John, all time is, is patterned motion. Nothing exists without patterned motion.

John: “the universe is each frame becoming”

Me: that’s only because you desire a beginning and end to the universe because of your god bias. A universe with no beginning or end is foundationally not discrete in the macro or micro, which interferes with your conception of god in your mind.

What does that mean? I’m not sure which of my points this is aimed at. Are you objecting to my question about the universe standing still for each frame of 10^-33 seconds? What does it mean to say the universe is “becoming” for each frame?

Each frame comes to exist and then is replaced with no time in between. It’s the sequence of frames that is time.