Are You Depressed?

[MagsJ]

No I actually missed that video, watched it now.
True enough, of course.
Basic silence, watching-thoughts-pass-by meditation releases whatever is in the subconscious to the consciousness almost like paint coming off of the walls.
It can be anything, it will usually be stuff charged with all kinds of emotions and instincts, as it has been stored up there since birth or before.

I had a 4 year backlog of buffered thoughts to process, Myself.. not a situation I thought I’d ever find myself in, but knew I had to work on getting them (sorted) out/out of my mind, but when I experienced the aspect of mind that is covered in that video.. that is what pushed me through the bottleneck of stream of thoughts, out into the wider ocean of instant automatic updating.. to a place of minimal effort, for maximal effect.

What I got, when I typed in ocean of thought.

[Fixed Cross]

It makes sense that that notion would push one through the bottleneck.

Allowing oneself to feel pain without feeling guilty (for negatively thinking about the perpetrator who may be seen by society as a saint) can be a great breakthrough.

[phoneutria]

Yes, it is an emotion. It's related to sadness, the same way irritability is related to anger.

what
the actual condition is a literal depression of brain activity
https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-proced ... g-20007400
depressed people often report that they feel nothing, like watching paint dry
sadness is actually a step up for someone who really is depressed

[Fixed Cross]

I mean, exactly.

The dude sounded like he figured he knew a lot about clinical psychology but this is rather elementary.

[MagsJ]

It makes sense that that notion would push one through the bottleneck.
Ive had similar breakthrough at one point but it wasn't about meditation. It was just regular recognition of what has been done to me and my loved ones by certain family members who are somewhat above the law. Allowing myself to feel pain about that without feeling guilty was a breakthrough for me.

Even if I have a banana just once a week, I’ve noticed that my mood is much more elevated throughout that week.. I can’t stomach bananas for any more than that, but it seems that that is all one needs.

Citrus and pineapple are also beneficial fruits, of which can be added in food and drinks, and therefore add their nutritional value to mealtimes and drinktimes.

[MagsJ]

So.. anything that ceases the nervous system being depressed will alleviate depression, and anything that causes the NS to be or become depressed will cause depression.

Eating clean, eating easily-digestible foods, light exercise, and regular detoxes, will all aid in that and lead to lower cortisol levels.. high cortisol levels, being at the core of long-term illnesses and weight gain etc etc etc.. so the bane and basis of all illnesses.

[surreptitious75]

Sometimes I just let my thoughts flow freely through my mind like smoke wafting through space
Other times my OCD will trigger angry thoughts [ or vice versa ] and I find it hard to let them go

But very slowly over time I have managed to reduce the intensity and frequency of such thoughts
I would like them to disappear completely but any improvement is helpful so should not complain

Sometimes I feel that I am in control while other times I feel that my mind is in control
So I do not think I always have control but I have learned the hard way to just let it be

I recently discovered that reading is rather like meditation in that it requires isolation and calm and focus
And even though I have been reading for most of my life I was never able to made that connection before

I feel mental connections like these opening up in my mind very naturally and spontaneously
While at the same time being freed from the mental shackles that bind me to this existence

Those videos look quite interesting so I shall watch them to see if any insight can be gained
But even if none can I will probably acquire knowledge that I did not already possess before

[phoneutria]

not sure what possessed our society to make us believe that we're supposed to feel good

[surreptitious75]

I think its not so much feeling good which is perfectly natural but feeling good all of the time which is simply impossible

[Fixed Cross]

not sure what possessed our society to make us believe that we're supposed to feel good

Deliberately changing it from a need- to a desire-culture had much to do with it.

This good feeling that is propagated is a banal self-satisfaction.
There are so very many ways of feeling good, and that advertised one isn't really working for me, ever.
Ive had it, its okay, its smug. Its money and sex related. Its a sort of tense relaxation, a feeling of being a valued part of a well oiled machine.
Ive had so much good feels however that I am simply bored by the standard ways and prefer to move through pain so as to discover new goods...
nature, discovers a new good feeling every spring, every spring is different. No spring ever is prepackaged.

[MagsJ]

Am I depressed? No.

Have I ever been depressed? Very rarely.

What does depress you then? Injectables and other people.. in that order, lol.

It is up to the individual how they want to feel.. be it, to feel good or to feel bad.. or does society and government want to even own that from the individual now?

The crows are calling, and breakfast.. with them.

[Meno_]

I got very depressed this morning.

I found that Bill Gates is planning to mass inject covid19 vaccine recipients with a personal tracing cell, that will be able to account for everyone's whereabouts.

Brave new world future shock here we go.
He did appear on tv to soothe nerves, but who knows about people that protest too much?

That reminded me about Eisenhower's warning about the danger that the military-industrial complex posed for American democracy, as well as the other chickens coming home to roost, among them:

The Warren Investigation whitewash, the Watergate, the Pizzagate, the Red scare, the Dome scandal, MM's something's gotta give, Mommy Dearest, whatever happened to Baby Jane? - , who dared call it a conspiracy, now this, -the swamp, the Russian interference in elections, the China virus, are there really aliens among us?, area 54, is Jesus coming back to save us in the last days? Nostridamus, & what if he was right? Apocalypse, the Doomsday clock, will anyone be able to afford that coming trip to Mars?, Was the moon landing a hoax? Was Epstein murdered because he could not have taken his life since he had too much to live for? Is the gay agenda infiltrate bastions if manhood such as the boy scouts and the US marine core? & other unassamabke goodies.

Who wouldn't feel depressed?

[Meno_]

I got very depressed this morning.

I found that Bill Gates is planning to mass inject covid19 vaccine recipients with a personal tracing cell, that will be able to account for everyone's whereabouts.

Brave new world future shock here we go.
He did appear on tv to soothe nerves, but who knows about people that protest too much?

That reminded me about Eisenhower's warning about the danger that the military-industrial complex posed for American democracy, as well as the other chickens coming home to roost, among them:

The Warren Investigation whitewash, the Watergate, the Pizzagate, the Red scare, the Dome scandal, MM's something's gotta give, Mommy Dearest, whatever happened to Baby Jane? - , who dared call it a conspiracy, now this, -the swamp, the Russian interference in elections, the China virus, are there really aliens among us?, area 54, is Jesus coming back to save us in the last days? Nostridamus, & what if he was right? Apocalypse, the Doomsday clock, will anyone be able to afford that coming trip to Mars?, Was the moon landing a hoax? Was Epstein murdered because he could not have taken his life since he had too much to live for? Is the gay agenda infiltrate bastions if manhood such as the boy scouts and the US marine core? & other unassamabke goodies.

Who wouldn't feel depressed?

[Magnus Anderson]

I am obviously Choleric.

I wouldn't say there's anything choleric about your temperament.

[MagsJ]

What would you have him down as, then?

What’s your temperament, Magnus?

[Magnus Anderson]

There is no such thing as "extraverted philosopher". Philosophers are, by definition, introverts. And whoever is active on this board (either as a reader or a poster) is at the very least interested in philosophy to such an extent that they cannot be anything other than an introvert.

Both me and FC are rather interested in philosophy, so both of us have introverted personalities.

There is also no such thing as "choleric introvert". Cholerics are by definition extraverts. The quoted definition from several pages ago states precisely that.

Introverts are either melancholics or phlegmatics (just as extraverts are either cholerics or sanguines.)

So FC is either a melancholic or a phlegmatic.

But it's not just that philosophers are introverts, they are also predominantly phlegmatics, since phlegmatic temperament is conducive to philosophical thought.

To determine whether FC is a melancholic or a phlegmatic, one has to take into account the fact that phlegmatics are big picture (a.k.a. synthetic) thinkers and melancholics are detail-oriented (a.k.a. analytic) thinkers.

So what do you think, is FC more of a big picture thinker or is he more of an analytical thinker?

I think the answer is pretty straightforward, given FC's attitude toward analysis.

He's a phlegmatic, isn't he?

Phlegmatic / choleric perhaps, which roughly translates to INTP in Myers-Briggs personality model.

As for me, I've done personality tests (a number of them, in fact) several times in a number of different ways and each time I got the same results. So I have no doubts about myself.

Big Five / OCEAN: O+, C+, E-, A+, N+
HEXACO: H+, E-, X-, A-, C+, O+
Holland: AISREC
Myers-Briggs: INFJ
Four temperaments: Melancholic / Phlegmatic

All of the results agree with each other (except for HEXACO result which suggests I'm an INTJ but this is because I'm T almost as much as I am F.)

(Know who else was an INFJ? Adolph Hitler.)

[Karpel Tunnel]

I got very depressed this morning.

I found that Bill Gates is planning to mass inject covid19 vaccine recipients with a personal tracing cell, that will be able to account for everyone's whereabouts.

Brave new world future shock here we go.
He did appear on tv to soothe nerves, but who knows about people that protest too much?

That reminded me about Eisenhower's warning about the danger that the military-industrial complex posed for American democracy, as well as the other chickens coming home to roost, among them:

The Warren Investigation whitewash, the Watergate, the Pizzagate, the Red scare, the Dome scandal, MM's something's gotta give, Mommy Dearest, whatever happened to Baby Jane? - , who dared call it a conspiracy, now this, -the swamp, the Russian interference in elections, the China virus, are there really aliens among us?, area 54, is Jesus coming back to save us in the last days? Nostridamus, & what if he was right? Apocalypse, the Doomsday clock, will anyone be able to afford that coming trip to Mars?, Was the moon landing a hoax? Was Epstein murdered because he could not have taken his life since he had too much to live for? Is the gay agenda infiltrate bastions if manhood such as the boy scouts and the US marine core? & other unassamabke goodies.

Who wouldn't feel depressed?

Meno, why is this the clearest of all your posts? and yes, I wouldn't trust Gates to mow my lawn, let alone develop a product that will go into my body.

[Meno_]

Good question.
Will try some time. But later.
Not now., yet. .....

Just not yet.

[Fixed Cross]

I dont wanna sound a jerk but, welcome to the Conservatives, Meno.



(of turning tables)

Whoever is in control of education and media .... don't trust em
it used to be the semifascist law and order types on the right, since the 70s however its been reversing and we've reached the polarity's other outer ranges now.
(Study said impostors affiliations! Draw the web. Some people, like myself, will be revealed to you in a less puzzling light)

[phoneutria]

everybody knows that there is truth to grouping people into personalities and temperaments
but it's difficult to be scientific about something when you don't even know what you're testing for
mostly because the traits that go under these two words are a mixed bag of things
may as well assign a zodiac sign like ares or something, for a choleric, pisces for melancholic etc
example, i don't think it is as cut and dry as cholerics cannot be introverts
it's not even entirely true that introverts can't be social
which is why the best way to go about it is statistical psychometrics (Big5)
so that you arrive at the essential nature of the traits
it helps to understand extraversion as a combination of enthusiasm and assertiveness

my own example is that I'm pretty fucking assertive
but my enthusiasm is very very low
which lands me at introvert
so when i need to go somewhere and achieve a goal of any kind, i do it, because it is what i want
regardless of my lack of desire to be there, or contempt or lack of interest for the people there
when I complete my objective I just leave
and if by any reason I find myself enthusiastic about something
I am indistinguishable from an extrovert

there's a great variety of possible personality trait combinations
and the fact that many of them tend to be accompanied by others
does not rule out the existence of unusual combinations
which is a lovely thing
because sometimes you come into an exchange expecting something
and then they surprise you
it's like finding truffles

[Magnus Anderson]

it's difficult to be scientific about something when you don't even know what you're testing for

I agree. That's why I wish psychologists were more rigorous with their definitions. It doesn't seem too difficult (even though it takes more effort), so I have no idea why they aren't doing it.

Nonetheless, one can put all of that aside and simply focus on test results without interpreting them. And to this end, only consistency matters. You want consistent results, and if you can't get that, you hope for inconsistent results within consistent bounds. All that is necessary is to cross-check by taking as many different personality tests in as many different ways as possible (self-report one way, self-report another way, get someone who knows you to do an observer report, etc.)

mostly because the traits that go under these two words are a mixed bag of things

Exactly.

"Mixed bag of things" sums it up pretty well.

may as well assign a zodiac sign like ares or something, for a choleric, pisces for melancholic etc

And what about capricorns?

Perhaps FC can help us with this.

for example, i don't think it is as cut and dry as cholerics cannot be introverts
it's not even entirely true that introverts can't be social

I'd say that introverts can be social, it's just that they are less social than extraverts. But I don't think that introverts can be choleric (and I believe that's strictly definitional limitation.)

which is why the best way to go about it is statistical psychometrics (Big5)
so that you arrive at the essential nature of the traits
it helps to understand extraversion as a combination of enthusiasm and assertiveness

my own example is that I'm pretty fucking assertive
but my enthusiasm is very very low
which lands me at introvert
so when i need to go somewhere and achieve a goal of any kind, i do it, because it is what i want
regardless of my lack of desire to be there, or contempt or lack of interest for the people there
when I complete my objective I just leave
and if by any reason I find myself enthusiastic about something
I am indistinguishable from an extrovert

HEXACO is more interesting precisely because it has more traits (six of them) each one of which is divided into four aspects. For example, extraversion trait (represented by "X") is divided into "Social Self-Esteem", "Social Boldness", "Sociability" and "Liveliness". Much richer than OCEAN model (which reduces extraversion to assertiveness and enthusiasm, completely disregarding sociability for some reason.)

there's a great variety of possible personality trait combinations
and the fact that many of them tend to be accompanied by others
does not rule out the existence of unusual combinations
which is a lovely thing
because sometimes you come into an exchange expecting something
and then they surprise you
it's like finding truffles

Definitions alone can restrict certain combinations.

For example, there is no shape that is at the same time a square and a circle (the so-called square-circle.) This is entirely due to the manner in which we define "square" and "circle".

[phoneutria]

I'd say that introverts can be social, it's just that they are less social than extraverts. But I don't think that introverts can be choleric (and I believe that's strictly definitional limitation.)

at the risk of starting a conversation about meanings of words
which i will not engage in
wittgenstein is an example from the top of my mind
of someone who was choleric and introverted
choleric-ness it its classical definition is more about assertiveness and ill temper
than it is about social outgoingness

HEXACO is more interesting precisely because it has more traits (six of them) each one of which is divided into four aspects. For example, extraversion trait (represented by "X") is divided into "Social Self-Esteem", "Social Boldness", "Sociability" and "Liveliness". Much richer than OCEAN model (which reduces extraversion to assertiveness and enthusiasm, completely disregarding sociability for some reason.)

the catch is that you want to allow for distinction of differences
but without making the mistake of not realizing that two might actually be the same thing
to what extent might the traits "Social Self-Esteem", "Social Boldness", "Sociability" be redundant?
that is why OCEAN only has 10
it is not a simplification, but a condensation

but of course, they all have their merits and can be used in parallel to solidify an analysis

Definitions alone can restrict certain combinations.
For example, there is no shape that is at the same time a square and a circle (the so-called square-circle.) This is entirely due to the manner in which we define "square" and "circle".

this is truer in geometry than it is in psychology
which is why one is an exact science
and the other sits on the line of science and humanities
therefore your example does not apply
unlike a square which cannot be a circle
a person can be both happy and sad

[MagsJ]

Introverts are either melancholics or phlegmatics (just as extraverts are either cholerics or sanguines.)

So FC is either a melancholic or a phlegmatic.

But it's not just that philosophers are introverts, they are also predominantly phlegmatics, since phlegmatic temperament is conducive to philosophical thought.

..then I would suggest that most would fluctuate between a/any combination of the four Types throughout the day.. so two or more, of the four types.

To determine whether FC is a melancholic or a phlegmatic, one has to take into account the fact that phlegmatics are big picture (a.k.a. synthetic) thinkers and melancholics are detail-oriented (a.k.a. analytic) thinkers.

So what do you think, is FC more of a big picture thinker or is he more of an analytical thinker?

I think the answer is pretty straightforward, given FC's attitude toward analysis.

He's a phlegmatic, isn't he?

Phlegmatic / choleric perhaps, which roughly translates to INTP in Myers-Briggs personality model.

I don’t know about his Myers Briggs typology, but I’d say that you got his Temperament personality-type combination right, though.. to be fair, this thread was about depression and not about typology per se.

As for me, I've done personality tests (a number of them, in fact) several times in a number of different ways and each time I got the same results. So I have no doubts about myself.

Big Five / OCEAN: O+, C+, E-, A+, N+
HEXACO: H+, E-, X-, A-, C+, O+
Holland: AISREC
Myers-Briggs: INFJ
Four temperaments: Melancholic / Phlegmatic

All of the results agree with each other (except for HEXACO result which suggests I'm an INTJ but this is because I'm T almost as much as I am F.)

(Know who else was an INFJ? Adolph Hitler.)

You do keep such company, don’t you Magnus.. ha ha!

I think I’ll take some of those above tests that I haven’t taken before, and see how they tally-up with those I have.

[Magnus Anderson]

at the risk of starting a conversation about meanings of words
which i will not engage in
wittgenstein is an example from the top of my mind
of someone who was choleric and introverted

Why do you think Ludwig was a choleric?

He looks like a regular melancholic to me.

choleric-ness it its classical definition is more about assertiveness and ill temper
than it is about social outgoingness

I think the key component of choleric temperament is speed. If you do not think and act fast, you're not a choleric. Even if you are assertive and ill tempered, if you're not a fast paced thinker, you are not a choleric. And since the mind of an introvert is constantly processing huge amounts of information, the introvert is necessarily a slow paced thinker, and thus, something other than a choleric. (Putin is an example of an assertive melancholic and Hitler is an example of an ill tempered melancholic.)

this is truer in geometry than it is in psychology
which is why one is an exact science
and the other sits on the line of science and humanities
therefore your example does not apply
unlike a square which cannot be a circle
a person can be both happy and sad

It applies wherever words are used. And they are used in both geometry and psychology. The fact that psychologists are less rigorous doesn't mean they are free to contradict themselves.

A much better defense of your position would be to claim that the word "choleric" does not mean what I think it means and that the term "choleric introvert" is not a contradiction in terms.

[Magnus Anderson]

the catch is that you want to allow for distinction of differences
but without making the mistake of not realizing that two might actually be the same thing
to what extent might the traits "Social Self-Esteem", "Social Boldness", "Sociability" be redundant?
that is why OCEAN only has 10
it is not a simplification, but a condensation

but of course, they all have their merits and can be used in parallel to solidify an analysis

It comes down to what one needs. I have no idea what the authors of the OCEAN model wanted to do with it, but given its public availability, one can ask how useful it is from the POV of general public. And if you ask me, it's completely useless. It says absolutely nothing that might be of use to me. The same applies to all other popular personality models -- completely useless piece of shit models. To make it worse, you can't even figure out what is it that they are saying because the authors didn't bother to define the terms clearly. And that's despite the fact I can think of a number of ways in which a personality model can be more than useful.