Trump Supporters: How Can We Bridge the Gap?

K: ok, great now give it some context, some meaning… individual freedom
for whom and why and in what context about the constitution?

Kropotkin

Thanks for the reply phone. So break this down for a second, because I think if you walked up to somebody who voted for Joe Biden or doesn’t support Trump and asked if they believe in “individual freedom and the constitution,” I cannot imagine they would say no. Is this not a common ground?

in my eyes this is already the wrong mindset
even as your attempt to bridge differences
you’re still trying to work within that frame of “us vs them”
i’m not a jew in egypt
i live in a free country
there wasn’t any fate laid on top of me at birth
preventing me from ever pursuing what i wanted
i am not oppressed
so i am not in the team of the oppressed

yes, until they realize what comes with freedom

But you are concerned that this could potentially change if the wrong leadership is elected, no?

I think the problem is that either the US -

  • 1 - has a constitution,
  • 2 - pretends to have a constitution, or
  • 3 - doesn’t have a constitution.

And the population is divided into the groups -

  • A - wants the constitution to be upheld and limit government
  • B - doesn’t want the constitution to limit government

Group A believes in situation 1 and abhors situation 2 and 3.
Group B prefers situation 3, struggles with situation 2, and abhors situation 1

Basically it is just Constitutionalism vs Communism but the population isn’t allowed to freely learn about or discuss the issue = the problem.

Well you could apologize for saying I called for violence against the Left - see the thread with your name in it in Meta. That’s be a nice start. You could also go to the thread where you lecture the kids that pardons are an admission of guilt, read my posts, check out the links, and potentially admit that the issue is much more complicated than your incomplete presentation allowed for. I think the evidence actually goes against it being an admission of guilt, but baby steps.

Oh, I’m not on the Right, though I do share with them some important criticisms of liberals and parts of the Left. This is my personal take on where we could start having middle ground, not an answer as to how you and the Right can find common ground. I’ll leave that to them to make suggestions. I am also not a Trump supporter, and I have taken shit for that also from the Right here. Which makes this post off-topic in a way. I won’t post in this thread again. Pardon the brief tangent.

Thanks obsrvr, for taking the time to respond. So if I understand you correctly, what you’re getting at here is the idea that the Constitution has been ignored over the past several decades (something once more I don’t think many would oppose you on). Which part(s) do you feel have been the most egregiously discarded? And when you say that group B doesn’t want the Constitution to limit government, in what way do you feel they want to “take off the reigns” so to speak?

oh yeah i would also like to state for the record that i am not a trump supporter

Would you not agree, phone, that Trump supporters do view the world currently through an “us vs. them” lens, as do opponents of Trump & his supporters? It seems to me a line has been drawn in the sand of sorts, are you saying this is a misperception?

From your first thread here (I guess since your return):

              sadly, my family and many others have been duped:

Here already you are basically dismissing any possible diverting view. Since your family disagrees with you, they must have been duped. This is part of a wider problem. You may have heard it in the form of criticism of the “safe space” mentality.

How can we bridge any gaps, when already off the bat you do not hold us as people with legitimate views to discuss, but as bots that have been duped?

Then you go on about hate of colored people (an old racist term which I still cannot wrap my head around the fact that academia brought it back and as the “anti-racist” term, that was a nice coup from the racists). But have you asked us? Is this maybe something you are assuming?

And this goes on and on. How can we have a conversation about the issues, when you set us on a lesser being category where you even decide what it is we think?

Maybe the line has been drawn, but I wish you at least allowed yourself to consider that maybe it was you who drew it.

I think that discussion is just walking into the cloud without a rain coat - you are just going to get wet and still not be able to see where you are.

They want and connive to get total authority - no limits at all - absolute supremacy = socialism/communism.

In a way your first question is related to your second question.

For example -
A liberal “university” rejects discussion of any good relating to conserving constitutional mandates. That is their “bubble of belief” that they support by rejecting any dissenters. That is their “ego”. And so they spread that ego by instilling the same egocentric bias against the opposition - fanaticism (people easily triggered to reject the slightest sign of the wrong narrative - the wrong belief) - ANTIFA, BLM.

A conservative “university” can’t reject discussion without destroying its own beliefs but still weights its judgements on students - degrading or rejecting those too liberal. That is their “ego” - more tolerant but still a self-sustaining bubble of belief.

The lack of free discussion without impugning the participants is what maintains the separation of those bubbles - those egos. So that becomes a “First Amendment” issue. Interestingly the first cause of division happens to be also handled by the First Amendment (no doubt without a lack of wisdom somewhere). So that largely answers your first question but perhaps not definitively.

Socialism/Communism must at all times oppress true free speech (just look at what MSM and social media are doing). They must maintain their bubble of belief - without it they collapse. That is fine unless you propose actual democracy where truth must be allowed into the population - else the authority is not distributed and there is not an actual democracy - at best merely a pretense because the people don’t know how much they are being manipulated.

But this entire post would not be allowed in one bubble yet allowed in the other - maintaining the division.

When they claim that they want to unify is one of the only times they are actually telling the truth. They want everyone to come into their bubble with no exceptions - no division - no independent thought - total unity to allow for total control and supremacy.

When the US Constitution says “God given rights” it means merely rights that are not given by man and thus cannot be taken by man - any man (or group of men). It isn’t actually a religious statement. It is more of a rejection of the authority of men. And socialists/communists cannot tolerate that.

Trump supporters are those who see that distinction and believe (with good reason) that Mr Trump is a constitutionalist and adverse to (out right belligerently opposed to) socialist supreme authority.

Anti-Trump supporters merely hate Mr Trump due to those liberal bubbles producing mindless rejection of anything outside their bubble. Most are not concerned about a constitution or not. They just hate and don’t really know why - hypnotized from they know not where or how.

So addressing the original OP -
They must either -

  • Un-hypnotize the liberals, or
  • Convince (perhaps hypnotize) the constitutionalists into thinking that totalitarianism is better for all

The hypnotize the constitutionalists thing seems to be their aim - controlling all news media, speech, and entertainment - absorb them into the bubble, into the matrix, into the Borg - or just kill them off with a virus or something.

Controlling speech is controlling belief. Americans are now NOT ALLOWED to believe that they stole the election.

From the other side, since liberal billionaires support those liberal universities, [b]Mr Trump should substantially increase government funding to free-speech universities /b - flood them with it - not to religious conservatives necessarily but to actually provable free-speech universities.

Either way takes time. And it appears there is precious little of that.

Here’s where the Liberal-Left-Communists should start reconciliation:

  1. Admit to domination and complete control over MainStream Media, then break the monopolies including google, facebook, youtube, and twitter. Stop the Censorship, Blacklisting, Spiking, and DOXing. You can stop silencing your opponents, and work together to reestablish Free Speech and the First Amendment. But you won’t, so it’s a moot point.

  2. Admit to Widescale Voter Fraud. Admit that the DNC largely is responsible for cheating in order to gain power and remove President Trump. Only a fair, honest, clear election is valid. Because of the above, harassment, bullying, assaults, the Communist party disallows Americans from contesting voter fraud as it has been presented. The “No Evidence” campaign goes back to step 1. the MSM must be rebuked.

  3. Assuming you follow through on #1 and #2, you must Apologize for the Burn-Loot-Murder movement. You must admit culpability and responsibility for Domestic Terrorism unleashed across the United States. You must push for DNCommunist leaders to work it back, apologize, and fix the damages. You must allocate funds to Conservative states and Republican areas.

Without these 3 conditions met, there is no moving “forward” together.

Realistically,

There will be no bridge. You already burned it and we will not rebuild. You have your truth; we have Our Truth.

You have been “Fact Checked”.

Honestly I don’t care because i am talking about you specifically

You have some gall to steal a US election for Presidency, which is treasonous by the way, and then talk about peace.

Why should half of this country believe anything you have to say, ever again? Answer, no reason, you’ve already exposed yourselves.

Half of this country is quickly waking up to the fact that US Constitution, Bill of Rights, Due Process, Free Speech, Honest Elections, etc. all mean nothing to our opposition. Because half of America is not American. They are Communists. They have no problem burning an American flag. We saw this all throughout 2020 when their Brownshirt Thugs, BLM, Antifa, did this brazenly on video, and the MSM backed them up.

It’s very apparent that peace and negotiation are not possible.

United States needs a Divorce, and to split the country in half.

No other solution is feasible or worth considering.

let me qualify this
you started a discussion about bridging the gap
with a mentality of division
you propose that the sides unite against some common enemy
in my opinion that is the wrong approach
because that is not a bridging of the gap
that is a deflection of the gap
the fact still stands that you want to rise up against someone
and i can tell you for a fact that the right and the left will never agree about who or what that someone is
and then when i pointed this out to you
once again you deflected
by saying that the other guys do it too

so my point is not even about the differences
or about politics
it’s about your way of thinking
and about the nature of discussing in good faith

you are not going to get anywhere in a discussion about bridging the gap
until you turn it backward, into yourself
it’s not going to be about who did you wrong
that you need to rise against them
and it’s not going to be about what the other guy does that is wrong
but about what you do
and taking responsibility
taking blame
acknowledging your part in the reason why things have gone wrong

once you succeed in doing that in discussion
you take that same new mindset also to your life
and reflect on what your part of the blame is
for things not being the way you want them to be
instead of deflecting it to someone else
and then you will begin to realize
that the right and the left don’t matter so much anymore
only what you do matters
only how you live

that’s what comes with freedom
responsibility for the outcome of your life
being the owner of your destiny
means you don’t get to deflect blame to someone else
this is my issue with the people on the left
not their genuine yet misguided desire to provide better conditions for the poor
but the fact that it comes from a place of bitter indignation
for having been treated unfairly
so give it a try
stop assigning blame
and take some