Peter Kropotkin"]I see nationalism and state as being as temporary as the
notion that once drove human behavior which is the “tribe” that
we once belonged to and then the “city-state” that drove Socrates
and then the small estates that littered the countryside in Medieval
Europe and then the rise of the nation…and then some other format
will rise and replace the nation… I hope for a unity of purpose that arises
when people, not nations, not religions, not social created means that
are only true for a moment and then gone…
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Bob: I admire your ideals, I have worked for my own for a while and now, being a pensioner, I reflect on the things that were. I have found that the development I had assumed we were all making, building the world to be a better place, was all illusion. At the best, it was the development that I was making with a few others. It doesn’t mean that we stop, but that we assess what is possible and do that.
Of course, the COVID situation is making a mockery of such idealism. At present it is important to gain control of the spread of the virus and get back to a normal state of affairs. Only then can we begin to communicate one on one, trying to overcome misunderstanding and enmity. The forums of this world, inasmuch as they are anonym, can’t help us unless we do away with the brutality of closed minds. Forums can only help us when our minds are open and we are willing to argue our case in a civilised manner. I have changed my mind many times on ILP due to good arguments made by others - including you. I have had to revise my ideas in the light of verbal attacks, because I noticed that my wording was inappropriate.
As far as the political arguments are concerned, we can’t remain dualistic, but must find common ground in what we want to achieve. There are different ways to achieve that, but the more extreme our demands on others are, the bigger the divide becomes across which we have to communicate. Instead, sticks and stones are thrown and not arguments. Both sides have done their fair share of this and we need to stop. The extremes only cause opposing extremes. The left has been demanding things that a society based on compromise is difficult to accept on the right, and vice-versa. A democracy is built on compromise. We need to know that. We need to be prepared for that and not try to destroy each other."
K: thank you for your kind words… you are actually saying the same thing I am, just
using different words…the only way compromise can occur is with an open mind… and
few around here have an open mind…the problem with most people is they get invested
in their own thinking… they find there own understanding and self worth in
their ism’s and ideologies… we find our self worth in being Americans or in nationalism
or in the ism of religion or in the religion of hate, be it the hate of blacks or jews or women
or other nationalities…we become invested in this thinking…
the right holds their self worth in their ism’s of god, country, guns, (in America anyway)
and to deny that is to deny these people their self worth…
we on the left don’t hold as much to ism’s and ideologies as being a measure of
our self worth… as an example, I have held 3 different and distinct political
stances and a couple of different economic ones and at least 4 different
philosophical stances…I can change my mind without compromising my
own understanding of who I am…my self worth isn’t tied into my
faith in god, country or guns…for I don’t believe in any of these…
I believe in justice/equality (for they are the same thing) and I believe
in freedom and I hold that all people are connected in a basic and fundamental
way… I cannot be unless you are as free as I am…
but that basic understanding means that we act for the greater good…
I wear a mask when I go outside… and why?
because to keep me safe, I must keep you safe and mask do that…
I follow the laws, traffic laws for example, because if I don’t, say
stop at a stop sign, I might hit someone or some car… and I
engage with people in light of the fact that I believe that
justice and equality requires me to engage with people equally…
I hold to the principle that “all men are created equal” and so, with the
notion of “all men are created equal” I stop at stop signs… I allow
people to walk in the crosswalk…I obey the laws because I am
operating under the principle that “all men are created equal”
and to be treated equal requires I follow the laws…
my right to act isn’t above you or below you, I act equally with you…
the statement that “all men are created equally” isn’t just words
on a piece of paper… it is a call to arms…to engage with
all people equally… to engage with justice, for equality is justice…
and within this notion of equality, I reject petty beliefs like
nationalism or bigotry or prejudice or superstitions…
I hold that “all people are created equal” and the way, the only
way to reach this is to expand our notion of being human…
and we do this by seeing such small and limited ideas of tribes,
city-states, nations… as steps to the next step which is
globalism…
you call it idealism, I call it the natural progression of what it
means to be human…and we can achieve the potential of
being human under globalism as we can under nationalism or
Catholicism or any other bias or ism…
we look at other people and we see the differences and instead we should
look at other people and be seeing our similarities…
“if you prick us, do we not bleed? if you tickle us, do we not laugh?
if you poison us, do we not die? if you wrong us, shall we not seek revenge?”
Shakespeare, the Merchant of Venice…
and if you prick human beings, do they not bleed? or if you tickle all of mankind,
do they not laugh? and if you poison human beings, do they not die?
and if you wrong human beings, do they not seek revenge?
“We the people in order to create a more perfect union”…
WE THE PEOPLE…
in seeking justice and equality and freedom isn’t about any “idealism” but
about seeking that which all, ALL human beings desire…
“WE THE PEOPLE” isn’t about American’s or Catholics or the French or
about the haters of Jews or or people whose self worth is found in
their hate of others… “WE THE PEOPLE” is about all of us…
as people, not about nationalities or religions or race or gender or creed
or who we love… it is “WE THE PEOPLE”…
and the only way to hold to “WE THE PEOPLE” is to engage in
globalism…
to accept we are all one…THE PEOPLE… that isn’t idealism,
but in fact, that is reality…
any other ism or ideology is to exclude people and we can no longer
abide by any ism or ideology that exclude others… because
our motto is, “WE THE PEOPLE”… not we can’t accept you because
you love differently then we do or you hold different beliefs then
we do or you pray to a different god then we do… that is excluding…
based upon false and outdated beliefs like nationalism and
religion and hate of others…
“WE THE PEOPLE” rises above nationalism and religions and race
and other exclusion practices…
“WE THE PEOPLE” that become the only judge of
what it means to be human…
all other beliefs pale in comparison to this one basic belief…
because other ism’s and ideologies don’t include all human beings…
they exclude in some manner…
and that is the seeking that we must finally reach…
to push past ism’s and ideologies to push back to the beginning…
we begin as “WE THE PEOPLE” and then formed tribes and cities and cities/states
and nations… and in the end we return to where we began…with the realization,
that we are not Americans or Catholics or homosexuals or women or white or
any other description of human beings…
we finally arrive at the point where we started…
“WE THE PEOPLE”…
Kropotkin