Is God good?

Dan1 · February 23, 2021, 11:49am

I wonder how his arguments ended up.

obsrvr524 · February 23, 2021, 12:59pm

James had quite a bit to say about the nature of God and the meaning of the word “god” - even its origin. And looking over his posts (from here and elsewhere) and references it seems there really is a strong association between good and God.

It isn’t that “God” is the good rather it is that God (by the true meaning of the word) is to be thought of as the source of the good (sought so as to accomplish the good). So the word “good” probably came after the word “God”, not before (although perhaps simultaneously).

It is a valid thought that all wisdom comes from God (wisdom being the beneficial ideas) but it is also valid that all evil comes from God as well - it just depends on how you pray. Pray in a particular way and you receive evil - because even without knowing it, you would be praying for evil - you get what you pray for - so be careful (of course if you don’t know how to pray - you don’t get anything).

What I think it all amounts to to is - regardless of what you want (assumed to be the good) - pray to God for it (which is different than merely begging for it).

Whoever that Rabbi was - he couldn’t have known God (or just wanted to mislead people - wouldn’t be the first time).

Jakob · February 23, 2021, 6:20pm

iambiguous:

Jakob:

And thus there is no one god, but many gods -
and thanking ones god, one may be extra grateful in realizing this.

We have been led to believe that all prayers are heard by the same god. This is simply not true; magic has a lot to do with taste.

Gods have natures, as do humans. It is true that a god may represent the highest a human consciousness is able to attain - thereby rendering it seemingly for all personal intents and purposes ‘objective’, but it is in fact irrelevant to one person what the other persons god commands, unless that other person uses violence or trickery to make the first subject to it, as has been done in the case of Christianity, where only clergymen were allowed to even read the supposedly holy book.

There is never a human between a human and his god. There are runes, though, and dance-forms, and even herbs - Man - Nature - God.

Here, it appears, in making preposterous claims of this sort without a shred of evidence, he is either emulating or mocking ecmandu.

Let’s decide.

Hey Stan

The evidence is in the offence taken by the ugly.

iambiguous · February 23, 2021, 6:31pm

Jakob:

iambiguous:

Jakob:

And thus there is no one god, but many gods -
and thanking ones god, one may be extra grateful in realizing this.

We have been led to believe that all prayers are heard by the same god. This is simply not true; magic has a lot to do with taste.

Gods have natures, as do humans. It is true that a god may represent the highest a human consciousness is able to attain - thereby rendering it seemingly for all personal intents and purposes ‘objective’, but it is in fact irrelevant to one person what the other persons god commands, unless that other person uses violence or trickery to make the first subject to it, as has been done in the case of Christianity, where only clergymen were allowed to even read the supposedly holy book.

There is never a human between a human and his god. There are runes, though, and dance-forms, and even herbs - Man - Nature - God.

Here, it appears, in making preposterous claims of this sort without a shred of evidence, he is either emulating or mocking ecmandu.

Let’s decide.

Hey Stan

The evidence is in the offence taken by the ugly.

Nope, that comes closer to meno.

Now, back to your preposterous claims…

I double triple dare you to tie them all together such that value ontology, astrology and the gods become, oh, I don’t know, intelligible?

Kathrina · February 23, 2021, 10:59pm

My tribe’s ancestors have always, for at least the last 200000 years (except the last 1000 to 200 years), believed that there are many gods.

The one god is selected so that he selects his people (at least in Judaism) as “his chosen people”; the many gods are not selected so that they select those who believe in them as “their chosen people”, but because they witness the lives of those who believe in them - for good or for evil.

obsrvr524 · February 23, 2021, 11:04pm

Define “gods”

Kathrina · February 23, 2021, 11:37pm

This is what I said in one of my former posts (see above):

The Germanic word “God” originated from the substantivized second participle of the Indo-Germanic *ghuto-m of the verbal root *gheu- “to call, to invoke”. According to this, the gods would be the beings called (for instance by magic word).

I describe it by referring to history, to mythology, to the history of mythology, and especially to the history of language.

I think that one should take into account how people led their lives at that time. You can only define the word “God” if you say that you are making a scientific or philosophical investigation. Otherwise, you have to stick to the meaning that history gives. Meanings and definitions are not the same. Words have meanings and are not usually defined. Terms or concepts, however, are defined so that they can become words, i.e. acquire meanings.

Well, you only want a definition,i guess, but then you must also say what you want to use this definition for.

Now I am curious about your definition of the term or concept “God”.

obsrvr524 · February 24, 2021, 8:28am

_
I liked this post (although he had others concerning different definitional concerns for God) -

"[url=https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?p=2536462:

James S Saint » Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:23 am[/url]"]Although the stories of God have created many efforts to describe God and tell of the features of God, there is but one actual definition of God. A definition is not a description of features (omni-this, omni-that,…), but rather a limiting description of properties;

A god ≡ who/whatever incontestably determines what can or cannot be concerning a particular situation.
The God ≡ Who/Whatever incontestably determines All that can or cannot be concerning any situation.

What other attributes of God that might apply are comparatively irrelevant and usually merely someone’s guess or more often, someones hyperbolic estimation, of power or ability. What counts most is what it is that determines the difference between God and anything else.

The word “God” is capitalized, not merely out of respect (as so many presume), but rather to signify the fundamental essence of the concept. A “god” is anything that has ultimate authority over a situation. It is the determiner of that one situation, eg “god of war, god of love, god of chaos”. The word “God”, being capitalized, refers to the essential property that permits a god to be a god at all - its ultimate authority. As it turns out, there is one thing, one ability, that allows any god to be a god. And that one property describes the ultimate nature of The God, without which there could be no gods at all.

So the question arises, what is that essence? What is there that could allow anything to be a god, an ultimate authority governing a particular situation? And I suspect that people in the past have known the answer to that question, but I can’t find any reference that confirms that they truly knew. The answer is perhaps surprising to most of you. Most people today think of God in one Santa Claus version or another. And perhaps people always have (although I still hold a degree of faith that a very few have always known the more exact details).

So we know the definition of God. The question now is whether there exists anything that fits that definition. Perhaps you imagine that “the laws of physics” fit it. But they actually don’t except in combination and presuming that they are accurately understood (which so far, merely out of arrogance, Man has not achieved).

So I propose to you, with far more than a modicum of confidence, that God, the creator of the universe and determiner of all that can or cannot be, is what you have previously known as “Impossibility” itself. God is not any particular impossible task, but rather the very principle of impossibility - “the fact that some things can never occur”. God is not the lack of occurrence, not an entity that is itself impossible, but rather the very existence of the limit to possibility.

If there is a limit to possibility, God exists as that limit.

It is, in fact, the limits of what can possibly exist that determines what does exist. Even the fairy tale known as Quantum Physics agrees to that. In a sense, Quantum Mechanics (not Quantum Physics) proves the existence of God.

It is the impossibility of certain situations that cause what we call “matter” to form. Specifically, it is the impossibility for random electromagnetic waves to travel at an infinite speed (producing the limit of the speed of light) and also the impossibility for such propagation to be free of interference or retardation, delay. It is, in fact, the lack of freedom that causes the universe itself to exist at all.

Similarly, it is a lack of freedom that causes every society to form, even Ahdam. The word “Ahdam” literally means the blocking, or damming up, of free spirit - the propose first governing of homosapian. No society has ever formed without something either being inherently impossible or declared forbidden by law (usually resulting in merely an improbability rather than an impossibility).

It is only by the certain that anything endures. The more certain an essential element is, the more enduring its dependents are. The more certain the dollar, the more enduring the dollar’s economy. All things are created and maintain by the degree of certainty within them. And God is that certainty via being the nature of impossibility itself.

Without God, there can be no reality whatsoever, because without the impossible, every possibility simply gets countered by its opposite. It is God that prevents literally everything from having an opposite in the same location at the same time … such is impossible. And thus God, the Creator of all, is. And shall forever be.

If you believe that there is anything that is impossible, you believe in God (impossibility itself). And as it turns out, if you believe that there is anything that is possible, you believe in God as well (the effect of the impossible - creation).

And this one -

Ecmandu · February 24, 2021, 4:11pm

The issue I have with James to this regard, is that he defines God as the 1 superiority. James considered himself an expert and so he perceives hierarchy as the law.

Existence is actually stranger than this… we have concepts like infinite regress and strange loops that make it possible for everyone to be God without violating the consent of a single existent.

Is there purpose to this negative zero sum existence ?

Only 2

1.) guard yourself to stay out of the deepest hell realms

2.) put everyone in their individual heaven forever

— the rest of this life has no purpose.

That is clearly not the work of even a slightly benevolent hypothetical creator being. God, if existent, can most accurately be defined as the supreme consent violator.

Every being in all of existence is having their consent currently violated. Doesn’t speak well for such hypothetical being.

Shepherdess · February 24, 2021, 5:25pm

thinkdr:

Is God good?

Yes, of course. If anything is good, God is good. In fact the word “god” is an abbreviation for “G –o-o-d-n-e-s-s.” {This contraction has evolved through the years.}

Is love good?

Yes, usually. Love is a good thing …and thus is an example of goodness.

Is God love?
Yes, love is one of God’s properties, since God, by definition, is the value of all high positive values, rolled into one. And God is the meaning of the universe. Just as our lives can have a meaning, so can the Universe.

Does God want us to love one another?
Yes.

……No more needs to be said.

END NOTES: (We have a project to aim for: :putting this love into practice. That is what we are to do.)

As we express this love, we recognize that we are all Brothers and Sisters, members of the human family. We will develop an attitude of solidarity with our Brothers and Sisters.
And as we express love some beautiful side-effects result. When threatened, or we face danger, we are not afraid. For love drives out fear. And we feel lucky; for giving love is a rewarding experience. We feel good as we are expressing it.

{Avoiding theodicy issues, my personal Precious God while all-good, is neither all-powerful nor all-knowing. God is my ever-present help, for which I am very, very grateful. Goodness, when organized and mobilized, when put into action, is powerful enough! God knows only of goodness; thus does not know of evil or badness. I love my Precious God but can never love God as much as God loves me.}

Any questions?

Comments welcome… preferably constructive and relevant comments.

If our definitions and perceptions of God could be proven to be non-existent, where would we stand, who would we have to stand on?

obsrvr524 · February 24, 2021, 5:27pm

_
I just realized that in a different setting - I am having this same conversation concerning social media law -

Without the consistent enforcement of the law - there can be no universe at all.

James was saying that God (by definition) is that enforcement (omnipotent - impossible to defy) that creates the universe itself.

Ecmandu · February 24, 2021, 5:44pm

Maybe obsrvr,

Let’s say you have a dream where you have to put a condom in the microwave for exactly 16 seconds to save existence!

Makes perfect sense at the time… and then when you wake up, you’re like “what the fuck was that?! It makes no sense”

There are only 2 real laws in existence:

1.) existence will always exist
2.) as long as the consent of any being is being violated, existence is evil

That’s it.

obsrvr524 · February 24, 2021, 5:56pm

Perhaps that is your dream - from which you have not yet awoken.

Ecmandu · February 24, 2021, 5:59pm

Every single fucking being in all of existence is having their consent violated in some way, shape or form. That’s not a dream. That’s reality.

That means that the holy name of god is: the supreme consent violator

promethean75 · February 24, 2021, 6:01pm

Ni dieu ni maître, monsieur ecmandu

obsrvr524 · February 24, 2021, 6:34pm

Or when (and if) you wake up you will find that it means that “every fucking being in all of existence” is yearning to do the impossible and suffering the consequences (suffering Hell).

Ecmandu · February 24, 2021, 8:17pm

I already know how to make existence perfect individual heavens for everyone, forever, without the possibility of violating a single consent forever.

It’s not impossible. Knowing all this; I have a vantage point that is informed with which to analyze existence; a vantage point that you lack.

Being awake is simply knowing that zero sum realities never work… that when you win, you lose and are sent to hell, and when you lose, you’re already in hell.

It’s the flaw of existence… hell forever for everyone.

You are not even close to awake. You haven’t even taken on adult responsibilities yet.

Until you isolate where you are, (which you haven’t done yet), you can’t start doing the work. You’re not doing the work yet.

Ecmandu · February 24, 2021, 8:43pm

Here’s how to make existence perfect:

You use platonic forms in a holographic 1 dimensional tube… platonic forms are the only non sentient existents in existence, they are aggregate templates that allow us to abstract categories.

Attached to this 1 dimensional holographic tube (each part has the nested whole) is us… desired Infinite regress strange loop hyper dimensional mirror realities…

We are mirroring the platonic forms to make a reality as immersive as this one with us being the only non reflected being in our reality (which makes it so that it’s impossible to violate another beings consent - even a virus, a microbe, a photon)

The mirror is bound to our individual desire manifestation matrice and we can change the shape of the mirror at will to make reality whatever we want it to be forever, using all the infinite raw materials in the platonic form tube.

I actually think it’s bizarre that you think you are awake and I am asleep. You couldn’t even define awake without my help.

promethean75 · February 24, 2021, 9:44pm

Okay obviously we know how to make reality perfect in theory… but like how do we actually do it? Like what are we supposed to do? Do we make something? What’s the deal?

Ecmandu · February 24, 2021, 10:03pm

Unfortunately, we have to get all beings to agree to the same upgrade of existence at the same time for this to work. It’s an aggravating waiting game.

We all made this together, we all change it together.

You must understand, as obsrvr doesn’t, that the entire point of our reality is to keep an infinite number of beings who were never born and never die, entertained forever (instead of infinite boredom)

Forever is boring as fuck! So we made innovations… spirits, evolution, god, enlightenment, hell, heaven, reincarnation, memory wipes etc…

Actually, the ONLY way the current plan works is to keep us asleep forever.

Now! Try to explain this to someone who chose not to ever be awake again, because they remember infinite boredom in their subconscious ! It’s like talking to someone who tore their eyes out and cut their ears off. The REASON people don’t think I’m on this insanely high level of cognition for reality is that they chose of their own volition (per the current plan) to never be woken up!!

That’s the way the current plan works! I’m well aware of this. It’s all of us or just the old (currently implemented) plan (which was all of us).

Now! You have to understand! The old plan (what we’re in right now) took us trillions and trillions and trillions of eons to make. There is a very strong spiritual aversion to waking up… the spirits all remember what it’s like to be bored forever

They don’t want to go there again.