When Nietzsche Took Cocaine

Ollie youre talking about Muslims and Christians. Not about Chinamen or Indians.

Good to know you’d be glad to be reborn though.
Ive just made several videos about the ER + the Big Bang/Heat Death idea, and about the extreme harshness of the idea of reincarnation, which means having to go through endless deaths. Hardly for the weak. This one is just uploading now and will hopefully premiere at midnight.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veXBaqpx1EM[/youtube]

And Attano Im not wearing a bonnet in this one. A scarf. Not on my head either.

Perpetual - please give the logical argument that says eternity of identity is impossible, without basing yourself on the outdated billiard ball model of causality, which is also what sustains the ER, but is pertinently false, as I explain the video.

Glad Blake comes up. He says that the eternal loves the structures of time.

I think I’m talking about exoteric Buddhists and Hindus as well as exoteric Muslims and Christians:

“Pure Land Buddhism […] is a broad branch of Mahayana Buddhism and one of the most widely practiced traditions of Buddhism in East Asia. […] Pure Land Buddhism is built on the belief that we will never have a world which is not corrupt, so we must strive for re-birth in another plane, referred to as the ‘Pure Land’.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_Land_Buddhism

“The followers of Dvaita (dualistic) schools, in moksha state, identify individual ‘soul, self’ as distinct from Brahman but infinitesimally close, and after attaining moksha expect to spend eternity in a loka (heaven).”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism#Purusharthas_(objectives_of_human_life)

Thanks. Even in late 2017, when I’d just experienced my first birth throe of the Babe of the Abyss (that is, other than on lesser psychedelics—on whose leaving one feeling gross I disagree with perpetualburn—and a few other unheimliche Empfindungen (“uncanny sensations/experiences”), going back well into my childhood)—even back then, I already wrote:

‘Well, for me that [there would not be infinitely many rebirths] would take away the best part: the suggestion that even infinitely many rebirths would be a blessing if spent on trying and liberating others; that such a rebirth is not a burden at all, but on the contrary! that it’s not even a necessary evil, but a boon!—perhaps even the greatest of boons…’
https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?p=424608#p424608

“Good to know you’d be glad to be reborn”

Good news guys,

You have to die and reborn in this life, so that you can be reborn to eternal life.

"https://biblehub.com/john/5-24.htm

and same John ( the disciple that loved Him):

"In John, those who accept Christ can possess life “here and now” as well as in eternity, for they have “passed from death to life”, as in

John 5:24: “He who hears my word, and believes him that sent me, has eternal life, and comes not into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.”

Expectations are supposed to be true. That’s what decides whether they are good or bad. True expectations = good. False expectations = bad. So while prognosing that the future is bleak can be a sign of certain kind of ability (the ability to withstand unpleasant possibilities), it can also be a sign that an ability that happens to be more important is lacking (the ability to make accurate predictions.) The purpose of an expectation is to inform you about what’s going to happen in the future so that you can better prepare yourself, not to test your ability to withstand unpleasant thoughts. In other words, if the future is extremely pleasant, but your prognoses are extremely negative, you are doing a bad job.

I agree with you that this belief is loathsome as well as with perpetual that its object is impossible. The two often go together.

I disagree with him on that entirely as well. The only truly filthy drug Ive ever taken is ecstasy. That’s truly self-rape. What a disgusting invention.
Psychedelics are holy, they never fail to make truth more apparent. Ive not taken them for some years, as since my discovery of VO Ive had no need for any clarification or additional bliss of the soul. last thing I did was Ayahuasca in Brazil with Phoneutria. But all its goddess (whom I must praise, she is noble and fair) told me, despite Phone’s father the shaman giving me a double dose, was; VO is the real thing, go back home and teach it. (and an urgent personal advice, which proved more deeply valuable than I could express).
It did clean my bowels very thoroughly as well which was helpful. I can recommend it, no disrespect intended at all, even for that reason alone.

Im almost certain that reincarnation is real and follows the logic of value-bestowing. The greatest investigative psychedelic, on that note, is Merkabatic Kabbalah.
Not that I expect anyone to ever take my word on anything. That is likely because Im usually uncannily right (and make (I should out of decency say almost) no logical errors) and the truth is always unexpected.
Lo and behold.

(Always nice to be on friendly terms with you. I think the philosophy you teach to the internet people is simply not meant for me)

Dear Meno,
I absolutely loathe these horrifically weak and stupendously arrogant ethics of christianity. It makes me sick too read these sentences.
The heaviest task humanity has before it is to apologize to the Earth for believing in such ridiculously undignified falsities.

. erased but to follow with something more sensible

Hahahah.

I have no objection to you having your beliefs. I truly recommend that you persevere in them, as it will make us more distant from each other.
There is no need to enforce caste-systems, the unclean naturally are governed by their own laws, as are the exalted.

No no, by all means. Exult “the only son of god” and “the biden administration” alike.

HAHAHA

Oh man.

Life.

To be clear, anyone who is ungrateful to the Earth is absolutely right in believing that his soul is damned and that he would need healing. But that doesn’t mean that the medicine that is pushed on him by the throne of the fallen Roman Empire will help him out with that, make him grateful to the Earth.

I used to respect you Meno, a lot actually, but you’ve fallen for some depravities I can’t stomach. As have others here, I just hope they will have the soul to refrain from pushing them in my face. If you had an inkling of the disgust I experience at christianity and the other soulless belief you mentioned –

I need a good large glass of water.

First off, on my “many” names (which already started when my mother decided to shift to my second name when I’d just barely been born, because my first name turned out to be too popular at the time—and then not to my full second name but to a pet form of it): Ollie is fine. My ex ultimately called me Barl, to which there is some deep truth (it evolved naturally in the course of our relationship). But it doesn’t really matter.

Second, I don’t think refutation and affirmation are necessarily incompatible. Lampert, for example, has argued ever more comprehensively that Nietzsche did not believe in the ER. And as you also say in your video, it doesn’t really matter when rightly understood. I’ve argued this in my Holochrist thread from the very beginning.

Lastly, when I called that Cyberdelic trip of yours hellish, I didn’t mean you didn’t like yourself then; interesting that you’d infer that. And I wasn’t lying, I thought your experience, like mine, was quite hellish (and in my reply to your reply to my calling it that, I contended that it doesn’t really matter if it was a vision of Hell or an overwhelming vision of God face to face—“the Jehovah of the Bible being no other than he who dwells in flaming fire.” (Blake, MHH)).

preliminary remarks for an attempt at a refutation of the concept of the eternal recurrence (different from simmel’s)

if an eternal recurrence is true, I could never know it is true for the following reason: right now I do not know it is true, and if it is true, I will always not know it is true, because if I ever did know it was true - during some recurrence - it would not be a recurrence of what I was before… but something different, and therefore not the me that doesn’t know it is true right now.

(see what I did there? rendered the concept non cent sickle.)

Ollie it is then.

I did in fact know you were going to say this.

I accept that, and indeed it is very possible to invoke the idea. But I am, have always been, obsessively logical in my theorizing.
As a kid used to lie awake every night for years trying to reconcile the idea of finite cosmos, which ultimately can’t be done as I only realized in my 30s, as I had discovered VO and stumbled on a definition of being which proves existence is infinite - for example, necessarily impossible to circumscribe or define in homogenous terms as each proper element of it sets its own terms and is only contained by the limits of its own power – but let me not try to verbally reproduce this whole logic here, right now - you know enough of what I mean.

That was my mistake then, thankfully. I appreciate this particular clarification especially.
Blake is as sublime as any man will ever be. I could top Nietzsche in one aspect (in increasing the depth of his ontology) but I can’t top Blake. I can just be astonished that such a splendor has found its way into existence.

I meant experiencing permadeath seems impossible. I suppose it’s “logically” possible…but how could one even conceive of such a state? It’s almost like trying to source one’s thoughts as they arise.

Does Lampert say Nietzsche does not affirm the ER as a fact? Or that he affirms it as if it were fact? If your model of the universe precludes the ER as Jakob says, then how can you affirm the ER as a fact? The function of the ER when affirmed (even if acknowledged as not a fact) remains the same? Jakob says, “If you’re normally very focused it does not matter in the slightest” as if to say that the very thought of the ER is an afterthought (not vivifying) and not the greatest weight.

We’re talking at cross purposes here. I thought you meant permadeath itself was logically impossible, not just experiencing permadeath. I absolutely agree that experiencing permadeath (the state, not the event that leads to it) is impossible: this is what my ex hadn’t thought through.

I don’t believe in rebirth, or “reincarnation”, though, so I do think all death is permadeath. (As for the distinction between rebirth and reincarnation: reincarnation entails transmigration of souls, but Buddhism denies the soul and instead posits “rebirth”, which entails continuation of mindstreams…)

Jakob questioned your opposite claim, by the way: not the logical impossibility (of the experience) of permadeath, but the logical impossibility of eternal life after death.

For Lampert, Nietzsche’s affirmation of the ER means his affirming it as the highest value, but not as a fact. In other words, the affirmation consists in wishing with all one’s heart that it were a fact, while seeing that it’s most probably not a fact.

In my view, the limit “before” the Big Bang is logically identical with the limit “after” the Big Chill. So if the latter were actually attained, instead of just ever more closely approximated, there would be ER. But it most probably won’t be attained, and that’s perfectly fine, because it doesn’t really matter: what matters is the abysmal thought, the absolute necessity—but not in a billiard ball/soul atom way—of the whole cosmic process.

Simmel’s refutation relies on infinitesimals—the infinite decimals of pi—, while there are no infinitesimals in Nietzsche’s model. There are in mine, though: more precisely, there’s an infinite approximation of infinitesimality.

As for your own attempted refutation: you might still gain knowledge of the ER’s truth later in life…

Of course not, and thank You for tht, but a. mechanically constructed ideal suits just as well as an inspired one.

After all , what transpires is the transcription of seminal experience through the strain-er of the creation through the creator/created

Maybe such yearning to be objective can only be whispered through parables.

That is why he can but reveal the object of it all to children

Not literally, mind You.

Neo Platinism is no mere revival for It’s own sake any more, it is a dispersion, through and through.

Guttenberg and Newton were instrumental cut off portions of the sorry decline of exclstical decline of authority and the rise of the common man’s sense.

In the scale of the unfathomable eternity of tine, it creates mere bubbles, wrapping our brain around the core issue of wether we are inside looking in or outside looking in.

Leibnitz does this ingeniously at a crucial time of change, and this first attempt to find a vision post Newton into it’s multi many formed dispertions, assures an infinity of bubbles bursting from a foam so large that it really reduces to an absurd vision of transformative and unidentifiable formless mess.Mass.

Reincarnative ER is akin but not identical, but surelly, in this humongous eternally indelible cosmos, every man, can and does recur eternally, the conditional is the number of consciously acquired facets he has mined from the existential minefield, and is able to retain the nerve for such retention somewhere in his cerebellum.

For most the decline, the declanation of the process has acquired the mechanical augmentation of what he sees as an artificially constructed parable, a fairy tale fit for those who deny the necessity of an a priori signified sign( usually a biblically foreshadowed event, for the men whi could see through time. ( prophets)

I mean it’s logically impossible to know it’s true (if it is) on account of certain features or conditions of it’s being true. But I didn’t address an even more pertinent concern when examining the thesis; that it actually has no existential cash value… or I could also say I do not have in mind the importance of what it would mean, if and when I act. And I’d argue that nobody does.

The seductive value of the ER as a replacement or substitute for what was lost when we stopped believing in an afterlife, also loses much if it’s appeal when you consider this simple fact; however many yous might exist, or however many times you might exist, each and every existence will produce the identical conditions of experience which prevent any knowledge of any other existence at that moment in the sequence.

For instance, you might very well have existed x number of times already, and might very well exist x number of times again in the future. But believe me, every one of those past yous, and all the yous to come, will come into and pass out of existence having only experienced that point in the sequence. And every one of the yous before and to come have thought and will think the same thing about the ER.

Similarly, the idea of ‘reincarnation’ is also empty of any cash value and a product of thought with the same existential uselessness as the ER.

As for your own attempt at a refutation of my refutating attempt; you might still gain knowledge of these theoretical problems with the ER later in life.

I already said that in my Holochrist OP:

‘The ER means there’s absolutely no difference between your current recurrence and your next. This means there’s no more of a sense of déjà vu to it, either!’

And my refutation (attempt) wasn’t meant as a slight.

Okay even better. Shoulda said this earlier. This ER process and reincarnation in general can’t be experienced as a culminating or accumulating of experience, if it is actually happening at all. For it to be significant, it would have to be something more than a simple repetition of physical events. There would have to be content that is accumulated over each procession, e.g., in my last life I stole that wallet and that’s why I’m a woodchuck in this life… or vice versa… I gave it all to charity last time and that’s why I’m rich in this one, etc.

Rather what’s happening here is, the person already has an aversion to stealing (doesn’t really think it’s right), and will interpret his present misfortune as a consequence of violating that code or more or whatever you wanna call it. If he happens to be a Hindu, he’ll think his recent car accident is karmically related to the cheeseburger he stole from his brother five days ago.

Most likely, these events are not related in any meaningful way.

With the ER, the same but different. You’re not accumulating or collecting victories and/or defeats as you recur. Each time produces in general the same balance of victory and defeat… that’s how you’re going to experience each recurrence.