Your Astrology Defense Kit
by Andrew Fraknoi
(Foothill College)
This can’t stressed enough in my view. As with the origins of religion, astrology revolves basically around a world where science was in its infancy. And who really knew the explanation for any number of events. Either “down here” or “up there”. So, sure, why not go to a Creator or to “the Gods” or to some mystical overarching “celestial” explication for human interactions. The important thing in any event was to have something – anything – that could tie everything [and everyone] together. To provide that crucial teleological component to the “human condition”…and thus be able to embed the lives we live in purpose and meaning.
So, why then are things like astrology and religion still around? In part because as incredible as the growth of science has become in offering us an understanding of the natural world in astounding detail, it still has nothing definitive to offer in the way of differentiating good from bad, right from wrong behavior. Let alone an assessment regarding the meaning and the purpose of the lives that we live. Or what comes after we die.
And why not? In the absence of a sophisticated scientific understanding of nature, really, wasn’t one guess as good as another. And isn’t this always going to be tied up in political economy. The need for those in power to move beyond “might makes right” and to sanction their rule through one or another religious or ideological “right makes might” narrative instead. Isn’t that largely human history in a nutshell.
In fact, isn’t that why many here react to me as they do? I don’t take sides in the moral and political conflagrations that embroil the objectivists up and down the theocratic or ideological spectrum. I suggest instead that they explore not what they believe but how they came to believe it as the embodiment of dasein.
When push comes to shove, beliefs of this sort don’t really surprise me at all. How many people who will actually think of Venus as an aid in regard to whom to marry spend much time probing the facts that astronomers and astrophysicists provide us in regard to this and all the other celestial bodies. What’s important is the fact that astrology allows them to shift the responsibility of thinking out something as important as whom to marry from themselves to someone here like Fixed Jacob. After all, as he assured Carleas, “[i]f you give me birth date, time and place of one of your family members that I never heard of, I will be able to define that person accurately.”
Or is defining someone completely different from advising them as to whom to marry?
Your Astrology Defense Kit
by Andrew Fraknoi
(Foothill College)
Of course the genius embedded in most horoscopes lies precisely in the vague language used in describing these 12 days. Can you imagine if instead there were actual detailed specifics regarding who you were going to meet and what you should avoid and where you were going to make your life more rewarding. 500 million people with lives unfolding in precisely the same way!
On the other hand, there are those like Fixed Jacob who seem to suggest that given more specifics from each of these 500 million people, he could in fact provide such detail? But, still, the more you insist that the celestial bodies are pivotal in guiding you down the path from the cradle to the grave, the less actual freedom you would seem to possess. Which is why I am always more intent on probing with Fixed Jacob his assessment of where the celestial bodies stop and our own autonomy begins. Given particular experiences that he himself has had.
And [of course] given the real deal free will world.
You know, I actually hadn’t thought of that! Moment of conception vs. moment of birth. And that’s ironic given my own obsession with abortion in the is/ought world. From my own frame of mind nowhere along the biological process from conception the birth is there a point where one can definitively say “here human, there a clump of cells”. After all, none of us can be born without having first been conceived.
Then back to the part where “long ago” we knew considerably less about many things. Astrology, like religion, was born before modern science came along and pulled the rug out from under any number of assumptions made by any number of prognosticators.
And, as with religion, there is a lot of money to be made by convincing people to accept your own prognostications.
Your Astrology Defense Kit
by Andrew Fraknoi
(Foothill College)
Here admittedly I am in over my head. I have never actually come across this “in the womb” aspect of astrology. So, all I can do then is to ask those here who defend astrology to address this themselves. Why is it not a valid point?
As for the part where the unborn configures into a baby once out of the womb, what to make of this? Clearly an infant is completely oblivious to the “powerful forces [that] emanate from the heavens”. So, what are parents to do? Do they actually keep track of the horoscopes pertaining to their babies and shape and mold their lives accordingly? Always for me it’s the part where the celestial bodies are calling the shots and the part where we start in on taking responsibility for our own lives. Given free will of course.
No, seriously. To those like Fixed Jacob…how do you yourself take advantage of what the celestial bodies are telling you about the world around us. How precise is this information in regard to, say, playing the stock market or choosing a job or sustaining some relationships but not others.
What they always seem to avoid, given my perspective, is any detailed examination of the relationship between the forces up there or out there in “the heavens” and their own lives down here on the ground. The parts where it might be possible to actually demonstrate how it is all intertwined in their day to day behaviors.
Your Astrology Defense Kit
by Andrew Fraknoi
(Foothill College)
Bottom line: Who cares?
Clearly if you are a True Believer in astrology – especially if you earn money selling it others – there are no doubt going to be many rationalizations available to account for all of the different ways in which the celestial bodies interact with us “out there”. Since, in my view, the main motive for those who accept astrology as the real deal [in a real deal free will world] is to shift the burden and responsibility of choice from themselves to forces beyond their control, it’s much like those who choose God in order to attain immortality and salvation. Who cares [then either] if this God has never actually been proven to exist. What’s that got to do with it?
I have no clear idea myself as to how believers in astrology would react to something like this. Does this in fact happen? Also, are there astrologers out there who actually argue that, depending on your gender or skin color or ethnicity or sexual orientation the celestial bodies play favorites? If those here who do believe in it are willing to explore this “for all practical purposes” aspect of human interactions, I might learn more though.
Now, to the best of his ability, let him try to explain where his own personal responsibility ends here and where the position of the heavenly bodies – at the time of his birth? during the experience itself? – begins.
What was in his control and what was not?
Assuming of course that with astrology there is still some measure of actual human autonomy. And assuming as well that this is a true story.
Your Astrology Defense Kit
by Andrew Fraknoi
(Foothill College)
Not being familiar with these conflicts myself, I can only assume that, if it is true, each community will insist that only their own frame of mind and their own “for all practical purposes” agenda reflects astrology as it actually is. Especially if there is an income to consider. But then, money aside, that’s always been the case among objectivists. And no one is more aware of that than I am. I spent years in various left wing political organizations…all basically claiming that only they really understood, among other things, The Communist Manifesto.
But, really, if it is the case that you will get ten different readings from ten different astrologers, come on, how embarrassing is that? Anyone here who defends astrology willing to comment on the truthfulness of this?
That’s my own argument in regard to all objectivist dogmas. Don’t tell me what you believe is true, show me how you demonstrate to yourself that it is in fact true. I just insist in turn on this revolving around specifics sets of circumstances and personal experiences in which the arguments themselves are substantiated.
And, just out of curiosity, what is now construed by those like Fixed Jacob here to be the closest thing to the “consensus theory”.
What is his own and, given a personal experience of late, how does he intertwine it with value ontology and Nietzsche and the old Gods?
As for using astrology to figure out where you left the car keys you can’t find…really? That in and of itself would be interesting to me. After all, given that “the position of and aspects to the moon are of prime importance” here, how would that, could that, does that figure into into finding them?
Still, in regard to astrology [hoary or otherwise], I am more intrigued to explore the connection between the celestial bodies in regard to answering questions like these:
are human interactions wholly determined by the laws of nature?
does a God, the God exist?
is human morality objective?
is Donald Trump a Nazi?
why did pedro claim that I had never been a soldier in Vietnam?
will pedro and phoneutria marry and have lots of kids?
Your Astrology Defense Kit
by Andrew Fraknoi
(Foothill College)
Yawn.
Won’t that be the reaction of all the various “schools” within the astrological communities? Even those that are at odds with others? One way or another – with so much at stake for them, financially, psychologically or otherwise – they are going to come up with a way to explain things like this away. Maybe the doctor is closer to the baby but the doctor himself is deeply embedded in all interactions of those celestial bodies up there or out there. You may as well quibble about this or not argument regarding God re theodicy when God is so much bigger than us that the universe He sustains is simply as it can only be, as it must be.
Astrology, like religion, like ideology, like deontology, becomes the font to anchor Me to. What the anchor is, in my own view, is no where near as important as that “in your head” it does in fact exist.
And it is this deep-seated wholly unified “sense of self” giving your life Meaning and Purpose that those like me are almost always powerless to deconstruct.
All I have to do is think back on my own years in which Meaning and Purpose existed for me. Sure, it felt damn comforting and consoling to believe in one or another objectivist font. Which is why it took many more years for it all to collapse into, what, the grim and disturbing frame of mind I am unable not to sustain now?
How can I not then recognize what is still at stake for the objectivists among us?
Again, with Sculptor – Lev Muishkin? – the main point seems to always revolve around him heaping scorn on those who dare to think other than as he does. Whether with me or Maia or Fixed Jacob.
On the other hand, whether in regard to astrology or religion, there are people who do believe in them and as a result of this they choose behaviors that may result in consequences detrimental to those who do not believe in them.
More so with religion of course. Not often do we here tales of those who were deemed “infidels” by the astrological community and had fatwās attached to their every move.
Still, those choosing to embrace astrology can and do make choices that might in fact harm others whatever the intent.
So, sure, why not engage them in critical thinking about their beliefs. How are they able to convince themselves that it’s the real deal? And how often does it come to revolve around others wanting to take the money of those who might be suckered into believing in something that has no demonstrable proof to back up its claims.
That’s what this thread is for. Though not many like Fixed Jacob are willing to explore their claims with me given my own focus here: how ought one to live in a world of conflicting goods?
Where, why and how do the celestial bodies factor in there?
Your Astrology Defense Kit
by Andrew Fraknoi
(Foothill College)
Here of course you may as well note all the usual questions that atheists have accumulated over the years to pepper the faithful with. As though “details” like this play any part whatsoever in why people anchor their lives to things like religion or astrology or tarot cards or tea leaves.
As though it isn’t really all about lives that are often precarious in a world filled with dangers in which we never really know for sure what to expect around the next corner.
Who cares about pulsars and quasars and black holes and gamma ray bursts when you are faced with what can be a make or break, life or death decision here and now in the life you live.
Isn’t that, given the “psychology of objectivism”, the most likely explains the continued belief in things like astrology. That and, in the capitalist political economy, the part where it all becomes just another lucrative “market”.
Your Astrology Defense Kit
by Andrew Fraknoi
(Foothill College)
Here’s the thing though…
Take someone like Fixed Jacob. While I don’t share many of his own conclusions in regard to any number of things – such as value ontology – he’s clearly got an intelligent mind that is able articulate points of view that indicate thought out perspectives on various subjects.
Now, unless his defense of astrology is all just tongue in cheek or an exercise in irony, how did he come to actually believe what he does about it? In fact I created this thread in part in order to explore this with him insofar as he connects the dots between value ontology, astrology and his thinking on Nietzsche. Then insofar further as this pertains to that which is of particular interest to me philosophically: “I” at the intersection of identity, value judgments and political economy.
Needless to say, for those committed to astrology as their font of choice in grounding the “real me” Self, that is more than likely to go in one ear and out the other. The brain in between coming up with any number of arguments to explain studies like this away. The studies will always be flawed in some manner…or they will cite their own studies in which compatibility between signs is right on the money.
And then for some in the money.
So, sure, if there are advocates of astrology here able to point us to studies that reinforce their own conclusion, by all means, link us to them.
Charles Carter, in his book The Principals of Astrology claims to offer a “concise presentation of the essential facts of modern astrology”(Carter, 1973, V). He has no compunction in applying the word science to describe his discipline; “astrology”, he says, “is the science of certain cryptic relations between the celestial bodies and terrestrial life”. He avoids language of cause and effect and relies upon a personal familiarisation with the topic to prove its usefulness, convinced that practical application will “soon convince any practitioner” (ibid. p14). Mayo (1979, p2) is no less optimistic and sees astrology as “a system of interpreting symbols correlated to human behaviour and activity”. He talks of the symbols deriving from the “cosmic space-time energy-system”. Although he does not state exactly what this might be. Astrology is a study of correspondences, predispositions and tendencies of human life which are in some way mirrored in the positions and movements of planets and stars. Astronomy has been concerned with gathering evidence of apparent juxtapositions between events of human individuals and societies with heavenly bodies within arbitrarily defined segments of space.
There is no such thing as the “cosmic space-time energy-system”. No where does he attmpt to say HOW this all is supposed to work, by what mechanisms are mobilised to affect human behaviour?
Astrology, J. Mayo, Hodder and Stoughton, 1979.
The Principles of Astrology, Charles Carter, Theosophical Publishing House, 1963.
One would have thought that a decent astrologer would be able to guess my “star sign”, and I have met many making that claim. Despite my DOB being a matter of public knowledge, none have been able to guess in less that six guesses.
I always love to challenge an Astrologer, they are always either completely wrong or their statments are of such banality as to be capable of being atributed to any person of my age, gender and colour.
As the editor of a Newspaper told his daily horoscope writer “As you will not doubt have predicted I am terminating your employment”
Anyone can write a horoscope, just recycle old horoscopes from earlier years.
Charles Carter, in his book The Principals of Astrology claims to offer a “concise presentation of the essential facts of modern astrology”(Carter, 1973, V). He has no compunction in applying the word science to describe his discipline; “astrology”, he says, “is the science of certain cryptic relations between the celestial bodies and terrestrial life”. He avoids language of cause and effect and relies upon a personal familiarisation with the topic to prove its usefulness, convinced that practical application will “soon convince any practitioner” (ibid. p14). Mayo (1979, p2) is no less optimistic and sees astrology as “a system of interpreting symbols correlated to human behaviour and activity”. He talks of the symbols deriving from the “cosmic space-time energy-system”. Although he does not state exactly what this might be. Astrology is a study of correspondences, predispositions and tendencies of human life which are in some way mirrored in the positions and movements of planets and stars. Astronomy has been concerned with gathering evidence of apparent juxtapositions between events of human individuals and societies with heavenly bodies within arbitrarily defined segments of space.
There is no such thing as the “cosmic space-time energy-system”. No where does he attmpt to say HOW this all is supposed to work, by what mechanisms are mobilised to affect human behaviour?
Astrology, J. Mayo, Hodder and Stoughton, 1979.
The Principles of Astrology, Charles Carter, Theosophical Publishing House, 1963.
One would have thought that a decent astrologer would be able to guess my “star sign”, and I have met many making that claim. Despite my DOB being a matter of public knowledge, none have been able to guess in less that six guesses.
I always love to challenge an Astrologer, they are always either completely wrong or their statments are of such banality as to be capable of being atributed to any person of my age, gender and colour.
Anyone can write a horoscope, just recycle old horoscopes from earlier years. and an astologer caught doing that was sacked from a big UK Newspaper to the horror of the astrologer.
As the editor of a Newspaper told his daily horoscope writer “As you will not doubt have predicted I am terminating your employment”
@Sculptor, some astrologists want to call what they do a “science”, but I think it’s painfully clear that the astrological community as a whole is allergic to the idea that it is one.
One person’s defense of astrology
Faye Blake-Cossar
Defending astrolgy: time for a new approach
So, if this is the new approach, what exactly is the old one?
Here is someone who actually believes that the catastophic earthquake/tsunami that devasted Japan back then was as a result of the planet Uranus entering Aries. Or is she saying something different?
Old, new or some still to be described account of astrology…how on earth can people actually bring themselves to believe things like this.
Then the the part I usually reserve for those who believe in God: theodicy.
Now, like God, do the celestial bodies actually bring about natural disasters like this? And, if so, can it be claimed that they are then morally responsible for the terrible devastation that destroys hundreds of thousands of lives…that kills thousand more?
How exactly do the astrologers make sense of this relationship between celestial bodies, natural disasters and human tragedies?
Does Uranous – 1.8155 billion miles from us – actually possess the power to bring about earthquakes and tsunamis on Earth? How exactly? And how does Uranus coordinate these things with Saturn and Jupiter and Neptune and all the other celestial bodies in the solar system?
A prediction made after the fact is no prediction at all.
Edit: what I mean to say is, of course “predicting” a disaster after it happened and saying “astrology could have predicted that” is absolute baloney. If astrology could have predicted it, why didn’t Astrology predict it? Was there an astrologer out there that knew the disaster was going to happen, and chose to withhold that information? That doesn’t sound very ethical.
_ I Guinea pig, am going to physically-correlate the two concepts below, and verify if the resultant state from the process reallydoes energise, for the following day.
What is the purpose of Moon Salutations?
Moon Salutations are considered cooling and soothing for the body, as opposed to the heating, invigorating nature of the Sun Salutations. They are considered particularly useful for practicing during the full moon, new moon or waning moon, as these are times when the body’s energy is naturally thought to be lower.
__ To correlate with the above…
Current Time: 26 Apr 2022, 07:32:10
Moon Phase Tonight: Waning Crescent
New Moon: 30 Apr 2022, 21:28 (Next Phase)
Third Quarter: 23 Apr 2022, 12:56 (Previous Phase)
__