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browser32 wrote:The absolute Russell set exists.
Proof.
Lemma. If a statement is false, then it materially implies some contradiction exists.
Proof of Lemma. It is given that a statement is false. So, the hypothesis of the material implication “the statement materially implies some contradiction exists” is false. By the truth table for material implication, any material implication with a false hypothesis is true. So, the statement materially implies some contradiction exists. This concludes the proof of the lemma.
Assume the absolute Russell set exists. As I’ve proved in my post at http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?p=2699066#p2699066, the absolute Russell set both is and is not an element of itself. For that reason, some contradiction exists. It follows by ex contradictione quodlibet that no contradiction exists. Discharge the assumption. Thus, by implication introduction, it is materially true that if the absolute Russell set exists, no contradiction exists. So, as a step of the proof that may be questionable, it is not materially true that if the absolute Russell set exists, some contradiction exists. In other words, the absolute Russell set exists does not materially imply some contradiction exists. Using modus tollens with the lemma and previous statement, the statement “the absolute Russell set exists” is not false. Thus, the statement is true. Therefore, the absolute Russell set exists. This concludes the proof.
A possible question with the proof is whether “the absolute Russell set exists materially implies no contradiction exists” strictly implies “the absolute Russell set exists does not materially imply some contradiction exists.” It's fairly intuitive that if a statement implies no contradiction, then it does not imply some contradiction. “The absolute Russell set exists materially implies no contradiction exists” does not tautologically imply “the absolute Russell set exists does not materially imply some contradiction exists;" the four corner entries in the bottommost two rows and the rightmost two columns of the following truth table reveal that in the case where the absolute Russell set does not exist, the former statement is true, but the latter is false.
Truth Table.
p = “The absolute Russell set exists.”
q = “Some contradiction exists.”
p.....q..|..¬q.....p → q.....p → ¬q.....¬(p → q)
T.....T...|...F.........T............F...............F
T.....F...|...T.........F............T...............T
F.....T...|...F.........T............T...............F
F.....F...|...T.........T............T...............F
This concludes the truth table.
The question of interest, however, regards strict implication, not tautological implication. Both statements describe the epistemically possible case in which the absolute Russell set does exist. So, the question can be reconsidered as whether, in the epistemically possible case in which the absolute Russell set exists, “no contradiction exists” strictly implies “it is not true that some contradiction exists.” The answer is intuitively yes; that strict implication is true in all cases. Therefore, the proof that the absolute Russell set exists is sound.
Paul E. Mokrzecki
Meno_ wrote:If a statement is false, materially, regardless of the material, then that statement is neither true or false
wtf wrote:Meno_ wrote:If a statement is false, materially, regardless of the material, then that statement is neither true or false
Sorry can you please clarify? If a statement is false then it's false.
Meno_ wrote:wtf wrote:Meno_ wrote:If a statement is false, materially, regardless of the material, then that statement is neither true or false
Sorry can you please clarify? If a statement is false then it's false.
A statement is neither true or false. It is merely a statement.
I can say that I am Einstein, and if You were to say that's obviously false, I could retort by saying, You are lacking certain facts, therefore my statement could be true or false, no contradiction there.
But if You were to press on further, I could retort just as well, and until that happens( You Pressing On) , no further clarification could be possible.
Meno_ wrote:wtf wrote:Meno_ wrote:If a statement is false, materially, regardless of the material, then that statement is neither true or false
Sorry can you please clarify? If a statement is false then it's false.
A statement is neither true or false. It is merely a statement.
I can say that I am Einstein, and if You were to say that's obviously false, I could retort by saying, You are lacking certain facts, therefore my statement could be true or false, no contradiction there.
But if You were to press on further, I could retort just as well, and until that happens( You Pressing On) , no further clarification could be possible.
Meno_ wrote:Not at all. What is the issue? That it even befuddled Cantor himself to insanity?
Meno_ wrote:Lets build this from the basement foundation to (through) the roof.
Meno_ wrote:That Cantor was uninvolved , is a misnomer. He was involved in general set theory, as was Russell. That Leibnitz discovered the differential calculus independently, does not mean am absolute absence of total relations with Newton. The same with types of logic.
Meno_ wrote:Whether set theory is simple or complex, is an ISSUE conjecture. That may ultimately be the issue of clarity.
Meno_ wrote:Russell's contradiction was paradoxical, however.
wtf wrote:Meno_ wrote:That Cantor was uninvolved , is a misnomer. He was involved in general set theory, as was Russell. That Leibnitz discovered the differential calculus independently, does not mean am absolute absence of total relations with Newton. The same with types of logic.
Your claim that Cantor was confused and driven to insanity by Russell's paradox is pathetically wrong. That's a matter of historical fact.Meno_ wrote:Whether set theory is simple or complex, is an ISSUE conjecture. That may ultimately be the issue of clarity.
English please. Whether set theory is simple or complex? What does that mean? What is an "ISSUE conjecture?" You are speaking nonsense.Meno_ wrote:Russell's contradiction was paradoxical, however.
Not in the least. It simply showed that unrestricted comprehension leads to a contradiction; hence unrestricted comprehension may not be taken as an axiom of set theory if you wish set theory to be consistent. There's nothing paradoxical about that.
Euclid's proof of the infinitude of primes shows that if we have a finite list of the first n primes, there must be some prime not on the list. That's not paradoxical; it's a straightforward proof that there can't be only finitely many primes.
Likewise, Russell's proof shows that unrestricted set formation leads to a contradiction. Nothing paradoxical. It's just a straightforward proof of a mathematical fact.
Meno_ wrote:
Since You asked, what is Absolute Russell Set
Meno_ wrote:, what is unrestricted set formation?
Meno_ wrote:I understand this much in simpler terms
Meno_ wrote:, normal and abnormal sets are easier to understand
Meno_ wrote: without any contradiction between logic and language
Meno_ wrote: Zemelo's treatment seems most informal for the pirposes at hand.
Meno_ wrote:Never the less, it is obvious that primal logic
Meno_ wrote: would lead to contradiction.
Meno_ wrote:But that such a nuance be so earth shaking to Frege shows , that it is not so easy to shift gears into sub typical nomenclature, from merely one of order as a way of differentiation.
Meno_ wrote:I bring in calculus
Meno_ wrote: for the reason that reference to Euclid is as far removed
Meno_ wrote: , that we forget that 3000 years difference in thought can really up the ante.
wtf wrote:I clicked on your link that the "absolute Russell set," whatever that is, exists. Sadly, there was no proof there ... just ANOTHER link to some claimed proof, which I did not click on.
wtf wrote:If by "absolute Russell set" you mean the standard Russell set, namely the set of all sets that are not members of themselves, of course that set does NOT exist via an easy and standard proof.
wtf wrote:Russell showed that unrestricted comprehension leads to a contradiction.
wtf wrote:unrestricted comprehension may not be taken as an axiom of set theory if you wish set theory to be consistent.
browser32 wrote:This post includes a second proof that the absolute Russell set exists.
wtf wrote:Bizarre that you'd write all this word salad without bothering to define the "absolute Russell set," which has no meaning in standard math or logic.
browser32 wrote:a thing is an element of the absolute Russell set if and only if it is not an element of itself.
wtf wrote:With your interest in the subject, why don't you study some basic set theory and logic?
wtf wrote:As far as your saying you don't have to define something to show it exists, surely even you can see that's insane.
browser32 wrote:I'm not interested in classes; I'm interested in sets. I'm skeptical of the difference between sets and classes. The difference seems rather artificial and unnecessary.wtf wrote:As far as your saying you don't have to define something to show it exists, surely even you can see that's insane.
Just because a thing is not defined, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
wtf wrote:Are there any sane people on this forum?
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