scythekain,
With all due respect you can’t prove a negative. Prove that Santa Claus doesn’t exist. You can’t.
I take it on “faith” that god does not exist!
Kidding aside there comes a point where much like with Santa you just have to just stop believing. That defeats the mind bending power of being told to believe in something that does not exist.
I don’t know that I “believe” that a belief in god is so debilitating anymore… When I look at a happy child who believes in Santa Clause, is there any thing negative there? Is being happy negative? Even if we logically know that Santa Clause doesn’t live on the north pole, we don’t know that god doesn’t exist outside of our own existence (we may someday know that but that still won’t invalidate my point.)
If belief in something no matter how irrational you think it is makes someone happy, what makes that belief invalid?
than why are you here discussing it?
A few years ago I read The Brothers Karamazov by Dostoevsy and it was in part an answer to growing atheism in Russia. The argument at times (it was a giant book) was that there is a lot of suffering and religion calms that down, so who cares.
Something about that bothers me. It makes me feel elitist, like I know there’s no god but I’m not going to tell Bob that because he can’t handle it. I feel like this with some of my religious clients.
Anyway, I find peace in the thought that this and this world just are. There’s nothing controlling things and it’s all just a mess that we need to work on. Meanwhile humans also create a lot of good things too. I like existentialism.
However, all of that takes a philosophical mind-set, that I suppose many people don’t have. Maybe you’re right.
However, if you could press an “ignorant†button, and return to childhood peace, would you? I know I couldn’t.
It’s like The Matrix in reverse.
It’s not logical to assume the existence of a computer indeed, but if your a caveman, chances are everyone else is, and chances are neither does anyone else. Besides, Computers are a fabrication. An invention. Just like God.
And Coincidence is not what we call God. We don’t fear coincidence. Or let me change this rather. Atheism is about (to me at least) not belonging to organised religion, so, I don’t worship coincidence.
heard of it, never have gotten the chance to read it.
there goes that “know” word again. Until we know definitavely(sp?) that there is no god, we can’t claim knowledge of such a thing. but anwyays, I also think that this is a common “problem” among atheists, that you do feel “better” than those theists and deists. You “know” that there is no god and get along in life fine. Sure you’re occasionally depressed more often than they are, but hey that’s life.
Did you also experience the feeling that your “repressing” something? I did. and the more I tried repressing that something, the more “angry” (for lack of a better term) I got.
there’s some days I wouldn’t mind returning to the innocence of childhood… not permanently if only for a day.
It’s like the scene in the first matrix, where seifer is eating steak with the agent… he knows the steak isn’t real yet still enjoys it’s delectableness.
Some of us “know” that we can’t prove god, yet we still enjoy the “warmth” of god.
but at the same time, don’t go thinking your neo and that you have to free people from the “matrix of religion”. It’s a futile effort trust me 
from a different angle, is the belief in god so bad? Some of the most imaginative and creative people believe in god, while some of the most rational, logical people claim knowledge of his/her non-existance.
When you finally don’t meet god face to face let me know. If you feel that you aren’t repressing something let me know that too.
Anyway, I find peace in the thought that this and this world just are. There’s nothing controlling things and it’s all just a mess that we need to work on. Meanwhile humans also create a lot of good things too. I like existentialism.
However, all of that takes a philosophical mind-set, that I suppose many people don’t have. Maybe you’re right.
However, if you could press an “ignorant†button, and return to childhood peace, would you? I know I couldn’t.
It’s like The Matrix in reverse.
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Ok…so…I’m not Neo…there goes my whole fucking self-concept! Thanks! 
Anyway, I do understand what you mean.
Although I was not raised to a religion I certainly would think about the question of god a lot. I swear to you when the question finally left my mind I felt much beter. A whole lot better.
I found that I had much less anxiety because I was not worried about being observed and judged by a being. I no longer drew meaning from chance events. I did not wonder why bad things happen and I got rid of the notion that people are evil. Screwed up yes! Evil no. No hell. No heaven. Just here!
That took a load off of my mind and my mind is loaded to begin with! I tell you, I feel much more happy!
Anyway, I just telling you about myself here. I’m not commenting about what you think.
I do like most of the humanistic ethics from religion though and I admire the character of Jesus whether he existed or not.
Why would you admire this man? He claimed to be the son of God, a being you know does not exist. I would think you would believe Jesus to be a fraud or else mad.
I used to work in a prison. There was a guy there that was very smart and we got along like best friends. However, he was a murderer and an ex-drug dealer. I liked him a lot and that was for his manner, wit, and ideas. I’m not choosey!
I might have gotten that idea from J.C.!
I like what ghandi said about that.
I can certainly understand where the lot of ya (atheists) are coming from having been there, I mean people do the most inconsiderate things in the name of their lord.
BUT,
Would you give up driving altogether because of the idiot drivers? The people who talk on their cell phones and nearly take the front of your car off? The people that drive drunk?
Would you not use a cell phone, because of the inconsiderate way 99% of the population use them?
Adlerian, as for the problem of evil? it’s only a christian based, muslim based problem (and some jewish sects, and perhaps a few others.) hindus, jews, buddhists, and other “god” philosophies believe in a dualistic nature of god. As an agnostic leaning towards god, this ideal makes more sense than the other idealogues, where satan is a free acting entity.
I hope these are not your reasons for not believing in God. This is a philosophy board.
The thing that continually irritates me is this idea that atheists around here have that those who believe in God are somehow just not as smart or enlightened as those who do not. If the theists could just see how dimwitted they are, so the thought process must go, they would come to see that a belief in God is silly, or superstitious, or just plain stupid.
It’s not only an insult to those of us here who believe in God, it’s an insult to the great and storied history of philosophy where the question of God’s existence has been debated now for thousands of years by men with much better minds than ours. The careless tossing around of statements impinging the beliefs of theists, the ridiculing with absurd claims like calling theism a “form of retardationâ€, this is all just bad philosophy. And philosophy deserves better. This board deserves better.
scythekain,
No I am not mad at god for creating evil. If he was real I believe that it would be needed to test us. I just don’t believe in god because I don’t see it as logical.
Beck wrote a book called The Prisoners of Hate that is all about how people that we think are evil actually think that they are good. It’s either that or the person started out as a nice person and got twisted somehow. That’s basically how psychology views it. I agree.
Anyway, as I was writing this I was cooking some chicken in grease that started flying around. That makes one pray!
Jerry,
Contained in everything that I said are the reasons why religion and a belief in god make people go crazy.
Religious belief has a lot in common with Paranoid Schizophrenia.
Also, it’s not an insult to be told that you are wrong when you are wrong.
So people who believe in God go crazy? It is not possible that a belief in God could possibly enhance one’s mental outlook on life and indeed enrich one’s very existence? This is your position? I am proof you are wrong as are millions upon millions upon millions of believers who populate our planet. It’s incomprehensible that one could maintain the position you have taken. Or expect it to be taken seriously, for that matter.
If I am wrong then I am assuming you can prove me wrong.
Have at it.
Frankly, I don’t care to, as you can’t prove a negative. It would all go nowhere.
Also, I don’t think that as many people believe as you think. Many just pay it lip service. Actions speak louder than words and few act “as if” there is a god watching and judging them. That point has been made since The Canterbury Tales.
I don’t act “as if there is a god watching and judging (me)”. Maybe your problem is your own preconceived idea as to what you think people mean when they use the word God.
Claiming that you can’t prove a negative won’t get you off the hook. You said I was wrong about God existing. I’d like to know how you know this.
Well, if there is a god that is omniscient then he is indeed watching you and evaluating your every move and thought. There’s nowhere to hide.
Anyway, imagine going back in time and trying to convince some ingenious Greek philosopher that there is only one god instead of twenty-five. How would you do it?
If you notice I tend to leave this forum alone and it’s for this reason.
The human act of “evaluating” one’s every move and thought doesn’t of necessity follow from omniscience. If you want to say that an anthropomorphic god doesn’t exist I think I’ll agree with you.
I won’t ask you to prove a negative then. But there are things plainly in existence (starting with existence itself), the source of which have not been adequately explained. This is why philosophy boards exist. What is love? What is its source? How is it that we can experience it? What does it mean to “experience†things? What does it mean to be “aware†of something? What is the “I†that I am referring to when I say that I am aware of something? From where does awareness come? From where do we get the concepts of good and evil?
Why is there something rather than nothing?
Give me indisputable explanations for these things that do not involve a deity, give me reasons that are more than just theoretical for the existence of these things that do not involve a deity, and I will concede that you are right and I am wrong about the existence of God.
Well, I can guess that it’s for some reason…
Hello Scythenkain,
By making statements I am discussing nothing.
EZ$
Atheism is just as strong a statement of belief as theism.