I do not know in which world you live.
No one is coming to cut my head at least in this world but a wise one is calling that fucking for sure.
with love,
sanjay
No.
See, I’m not a coward unlike most others around here. I answer absolutely, clearly, distinctly, concretely. I don’t waver like a bitch. 100% yes or 100% no, all in, black and white only, no gray areas.
I knew you’d agree with me eventually. Now admit that god exists beyond your knowledge, on top of a few apologies to all theists.
Civil - polite or courteous + Sufficiently observing or befitting accepted social usages; not rude
Wizard has been civil, you say?
Allow me to quote him from this thread:
Civil?
Calling all atheists weak, close minded, powerless, unimaginative, mentally stunted - Civil discourse?
This is before anyone else had even posted.
Generalizes all atheists as having an ego complex and the ideology of children.
Civil?
Wizard asserts all atheists lack empathy and understanding, and are close minded bigots. Also repeats previous generalizations.
Civil?
Here he claims all atheists lack humility and are not only ignorant of other people, but also of knowledge, intelligence and wisdom.
Civil?
==
He even goes ahead and admits he has been uncivil, and adds another insult in for good measure:
==
So James,
You approve making sweeping (clearly offensive) generalisations as a matter of civil discourse?
You commend Wizard’s civility in this thread?
But what if I’m right?
It’s besides the point.
It’s OK if we don’t agree, but why do we have to insult each other?
Can’t disagreements be expressed without resorting to blatant insult?
If someone’s overweight, do we have to resort to calling them a fat fuck to express our concern?
There’s plenty of people that disagree, yet still manage to be respectful and civilised towards each other.
I think you came into this thread with hostility / frustration, and it resulted in being offensive from the get go.
I don’t think much positive is going to come out of a discussion if the first step hits the other person in the shin and lands on their toes.
A bad start that’s likely going to go down hill from there.
Some people take being called a child as a compliment. So it’s only you who are insulted, not everybody else. Some people like remaining a child forever.
Chidish - foolish or petty; puerile
This is how I interpreted the remark regarding ‘child ideology’.
Also, you said quite a bit more than just associating atheists with the sophistication of children.
Would you characterize the remarks I quoted of yours as compliments?
That seems to be how you’re presenting it. - That any reasonable person wouldn’t be insulted.
Then, nothing.
Your belief is meaningless. ~If you are right that there is a god then we have the same world as we did yesterday; same suffering, same problems.
You theory does no work, because god does no work.
In “your world”, you have the privilege of living as a Muslim in a Westernised world. Where you are safe from having your fucking head cut off.
Were you to be a white person faced with Muslims you might think differently.
military.com/video/operation … 038454001/
youtube.com/watch?v=kNC_-IjDnek
There is a “competent defender of it”??? 
[size=85]… {{I’ll see it when I believe it}}[/size]
LOL, Its about beliefs not absolute knowledge. All atheists get from theists are passages from ancient texts. We don’t get any other argument. Both sides are based on emotions and beliefs, not facts.
So because most are emotional about their belief we get crappy ass fights instead of healthy exchanges of thoughts and ideas.
Peter Kropotkin: I could get that knowledge if I work hard enough at it. Which is the point, how does one get metaphysical knowledge? How would one get knowledge that is beyond the physical, beyond the senses? How does one get knowledge of that which leaves no physical record.
U: And yet, I am sure you have a firm conviction that you don’t know everything. I’m sure you believe there are planets we haven’t seen, and things on those planets that we haven’t thought of. I think it would be some sort of mental retardation for a person to literally believe that only what they perceived existed, right? The natural state of thought is that our perceptions define a sort of bubble in the midst of a much larger space.
So then, the answer to your question would be inference. When Carl Sagan was concluding that it was overwhelmingly likely that there was life elsewhere in the universe, I don’t have the impression he was concluding this on the basis of having seen UFOs and believing they are aliens. He inferred that if there’s one planet like Earth, there ought to be more, given the size of the universe. So why couldn’t a person infer metaphysical truths- even based on the things they perceive with their senses, if we take your line and limit knowledge to that? If a person sees some aspects of the world around him and concludes it was created by an all powerful being, or that there is an absolute right and wrong, or that there is such a thing as eternal recurrence or whatever, why does the physical/metaphysical distinction impact the strength of the inference?
[/quote]
K: Now we are getting to the heart of the matter, Sagan does not say, Yes, there are aliens, he does as
you say, “inferred” and “surmised” He says, given the odds, there are more than likely aliens And given the
fact, there are humans beings, we can guess that in all of the universe, there is likely more
life. Now you cannot do this with god or metaphysical matters because to surmise is nothing more than
a guess. I guess there is a god which can also mean I guess there is not a god. You cannot base a statement
such as god/metaphysical matters exists on nothing more than a guess. So what would one use to infer that
god/metaphysical exists… The universe exists? that life exists? Both of them can be readily explained by
science (in fact, science can explain the universe and life in a couple of different ways)
I can just as easily infer or surmise that god doesn’t exist and given the burden of proof always lies with
those who claim something exist. The one who claims it doesn’t not exist has no burden of proof because
you cannot prove something does not exist. Now the interesting thing here is we can if we look long enough
and hard enough, we can probably find evidence that aliens exist and yet that same search for god will
yeld us nothing. As least with the search for aliens, we have a chance of finding proof one way or another,
in our search for god, there is still no evidence and no way in the universe to find evidence for the existence
of god/metaphysical. NO MATTER how hard you look, no matter where you look, you will not find god or proof
of the metaphysical. You just can’t. Show me a shred of evidence, any type of proof at all of the
metaphysical or of god. I can at least show you videos of ufo’s which suggest aliens exist. You cannot show
me anything that god or the metaphysical exists.
Kropotkin
K: asking for evidence for the exist of god/metaphysical is not emotional or beliefs. I simply
say, there is no evidence for god/metaphysical. That is not emotional nor is it about beliefs.
there are no facts supporting the existence of god/metaphysical. That is the atheist entire argument.
there are no facts. simple, pure and direct. no facts, no evidence. I can’t really be any more direct than
that.
Kropotkin
“Give me evidence that the ball is green.”
“Open your eyes.”
“Eyes don’t exist.”
The closed mind of the atheist on display. LOL
The opposite is also true. Give proof that no god exists, you cant. And yes there is emotion due to your belief. Beliefs and emotions are parts of each other. And I have read your posts Peter, don’t tell me you don’t get emotional. 
One point I would like to touch on is this idea that atheist are children or have childish beliefs
because they don’t belief in god/metaphysical. I am a father. When my daughter was young, very young
she believed in matters that laid in the dark, monsters under the bed, ghosts, scary creatures.
she also believed in Santa Claus, the easter bunny, the tooth fairy. These beliefs are held by
children. You would have to really wonder about an adult that still truly believed in those things.
Yet somehow the same belief in god is considered adult whereas if you don’t believe you are childish.
If you are consistent then holding beliefs that are unsupported by facts such as in santa claus, the
tooth fairy, god, the easter bunny would be considered the same thing and considered childish.
If you are an adult and I am a adult and I don’t believe in santa claus, the easter bunny, the tooth fairy,
so to suddenly believe in god as an adult to be considered an adult is very weird. Why is god exempt
from childish beliefs? God existence is no different than the easter bunny or santa claus or the tooth fairy.
Bedtime stories we tell our children.
Kropotkin
K: then where is the evidence? where are the facts for the existence of god/metaphysical?
It is not having a closed mind asking for evidence or asking for facts. Tell me where
to look for god and I will happily look but you can only tell me to search the heart.
My heart is not a very good judge of matters. Many times my heart as told me I love this women or
that women or I hate this person or hate that person, and my heart was wrong, in fact, I would guess
my heart has been wrong more time than not. Why would I trust my heart when it has proven to be
wrong time after time after time. God is not in the mind but in the heart, I have heard this time
after time and yet, I know the heart has such a terrible track record when it comes to
being right. You have no other place in the universe to search in looking for god/metaphysical.
Kropoktin
You wrote that not only is there no evidence, there is also no possibility of evidence.
That’s a closed mind.
K: I can be emotional but not about this for the simple reason I have gone down this road for 40 years.
I have asked many people for the evidence of god/metaphysical and no one in 40 years has been
able to tell me, god is here or the metaphysical is there. All I am actually doing here is asking for
evidence or some facts that god exist or the metaphysical exist. Tell me where to look for these
facts or evidence. you can’t, ucc can’t, wizard can’t, james can’t and why can’t so many people
show the evidence or the facts that god/metaphysical exists? Because there aren’t any facts or
any evidence or someone, somewhere would have said, look here and you will find or the evidence
is here or the facts are… Nope, no one has. People somehow think that asking for evidence or facts
is somehow having a closed mind and all I am asking for is proof, evidence. I am not asking for that much
unless it doesn’t exist and then I guess I am asking for a lot.
Kropotkin