“There is a God.”
“There is no God.”
“There is a God.”
“There is no God.”
“There is a God.”
“There is no God.”
Before you talk about insanity, talk about inanity.
Satori quotes (in bold) -
Is it logical to believe the existence of something simply because we can’t detect it? To do this is ascertained as certain insanity.
Mick’s reply - Atheists would certainly have a valid point except for one thing, namely Jesus said there is a God. So we’re back to the old question of whether to believe him or not. And as I’ve said before, his credentials and CV are impeccable so I for one tend to believe him…
I respect that you are a Christian so why must you insult Atheists?
Mick’s reply -Since when is it an insult to ask tongue-in-cheekily if atheists are insane? Atheists are saying it about christians all the time !
Are atheists over-sensitive and can’t take anything that knocks their belief in case it comes crashing down like a house of cards?
By contrast christians just laugh off insults -Jesus said “Whoever speaks a word against me shall be forgiven”(Luke 12:10)
Let’s make a list of just a few others whom has been said to be all powerful: The commonly known Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad, Cassius Clay, Elvis. So because a person 2000 or so years ago says he is right we are to believe him? I beg to differ. Thousands of other religious zealots have come and gone in history. In time Jesus will be another one…
Micks reply - Since when did Elvis or any of the others do miracles?
The fact remains, a young country-boy carpenter upstaged them all and still fronts the worlds largest religion by far two thousand years later.
Right Elvis?
“Uh-huh”
Wow, I would want to follow this God. Your logic is “non-believer” = its ok if they suffer and die
Mick’s reply - Jesus said “God doesn’t want anybody to go to hell”, thats why he sent Jesus to save us. So its our free choice to accept or reject him…
I believe that as Phaedrus said that some people believe in God to simply justify themselves and their actions as righteousTo claim your path is true; means you have no embrace of the Truth. To just go on the path and lead where it might means you are already there.
Micks reply -Here again we’re back to the crux question of whether to believe Jesus or not. Hey why should we not believe him? 
In closing, to dismiss others as insane and yourself superior; or your ideas is not that of a pious individual. Less preaching, more learning.
Micks reply -You think christians consider themselves superior? Do I detect shades of “the Cape Fear complex” in you? (You know, that de Niro film where he plays an embittered ex-con who keeps misguidedly saying to his lawyer - “you think you’re better than me”)
Jesus washed his mates feet to demonstrate he wasn’t superior to them in any way, likewise no true christian puts on any haughty airs and graces. 
By the most direct definition, it’s the exact opposite; at least when viewed in juxtaposition to theism.
Atheists, or for Mick --people who are not Christians-- are, and can be many things. To call them insane is simply a foolish misuse of the word however.
‘Insane’ is a psychological label made possible by society. Seeing as how the non-Christians are greatly outnumbered, if anything they are the most likely to be labeled insane. That is, if we’re going to make it a point to waste time by asking ridiculous questions like this one – another of Mick’s lame attempts to garnish some sort of attention and use the words:
Upstage,
Carpenter
Jesus
and this which somehow is supposed to constitute a proper argument.
If I had a dollar for every preaching prophet claiming to be the son of god, I would own one of these. Placing faith in a god you can’t prove backed by the argument “you just gotta have faith”, seems a stronger argument then claiming he exists becuase some fellow 2000 years ago said he did.
That is easy to understand, taking the history of catholicism into account. There is a big difference between gaining the worlds faith by letting them choose and strong-arming them into submission.
L.Ron hubbard. John Titor. Nostradamus. Joseph Smith, Jr. Charles Taze Russell.
Excuse me? Christian morals are being imposed on non christians the world over. Hell, I had to praise the G man in PUBLIC school (our national anthem) I have had so many christians force their irrational morals down my throat my entire life (no sex before marriage, don’t be gay, ect) Christians tell me all the time that I am going to hell for my beliefs.
Quite the opposite. You detect shades of Old Yeller, where some Christians are infected with a rampant disease, and it is about time some of you got your pride, and self-righteousness shot down. I can accept being wrong since I don’t allign my life with a belief…can you?
Old Gobbo quote - ‘Insane’ is a psychological label made possible by society
Right
As a kid, I overheard my dad say to my mum once about me - “He’s nutty! No, don’t laugh, I really do mean it! He wastes his pocket money on silly plastic model aeroplanes and hangs 'em on string from his bedroom ceiling in full view of passersby, I dread to think what the neighbours are saying about him”…
I got my own back though, I filled his radio with sand from a builders yard down the road and rofld at his bewildered expression when he tried to tune in the Clay-Liston fight and all he got were crackles and splutters from it. Then the sand began pouring out like in an Indiana Jones temple and he said to my mam - “It’s full of bleddy sand, I don’t believe it, how did that get in there???”
Naturally I innocently said I knew nothing about it…
He’s been dead now 25 years but i bet he’d spin in his grave if he knew I still bought plastic kits, I got Amelia Earharts all-red Lockheed Vega last year and have currently got my eye on a B-25 Doolittle Raider down the local model shop…
Nohotdog quote -If I had a dollar for every preaching prophet claiming to be the son of god…
Micks reply - How many prophets did stuff like this? -
MARY - “Hey Jesus, the caterers have fouled up, can you pull some of that miracle sh*t and conjure up some wine?”
Nohotdog quote - the history of catholicism… There is a big difference between gaining the worlds faith by letting them choose and strong-arming them into submission.
Micks reply - Modern catholics are basically alright but they divert themselves away from Jesus too much by praying to his mum and to human “saints”, yet nowhere does the bible say to do that. And their churches and homes are so full of cheap statues and baubles that they look like fairground hoopla stalls…
Nohotdog quote - L.Ron hubbard. John Titor. Nostradamus. Joseph Smith, Jr. Charles Taze Russell.
Micks reply - Jesus said examine peoples fruit and if its rotten, reject it…
Hubbards a scientologist, ie a Jesus-rejecter, so his fruits crap.
John Titor was supposedly a time-traveller from the future who told us a Civil War would begin in America in 2004…(huh)
Nostradamus spoke like a crackhead and his vague “prophecies” can therefore mean anything, not to be taken seriously…
Joe “Dirty Harry” Smith founded the Mormons and was killed in a gunfight with the law, huh some “prophet”…
Charles Taze Russell founded the Jehovahs Witnesses who say -“If you try to study the Bible without our help,you go into darkness” (Watchtower 15 Sep 1910,page 298 ) huh again… Hey I’m running out of “huhs” here…
Nohotdog quote -Christian morals are being imposed on non christians the world over. (no sex before marriage, don’t be gay, ect) Christians tell me all the time that I am going to hell for my beliefs.
Chill mate, Jesus himself said there are plenty of crap christians around, pay 'em no heed, I don’t. -Jesus said:-“Not all who call me “Lord,Lord” will enter the kingdom of heaven. Then I’ll tell them plainly, I never knew you, get away from me” (Matt 7:21-23)
Hell, an actual VICAR posted to me on a net message board last year -“Mick you disgust me”…
PS just gotta mention a coincidence (or as paranormal researchers call them- “synchronicities”) involving your name
I saw a dog in distress in a parked car today in sweltering heat so I called the police and they rescued it. Voila! - no hot dog
Buns. Buns buns buns. NoHotDogBuns. hot dogs are a-OK
Religion is the zipper on the trousers of life.
- Barndog
Satori quote - I don’t, can’t , and will not believe that a book written centuries after his life by flawed humanity dictactes the ultimate truths.
Micks reply -Gospel-writers Matthew and John were two of the actual disciples, Mark was a mate of Jesus’s right-hand man Peter, and Luke was a mate of Paul, they never wrote their accounts “centuries later” !
Satori quote - [re Jews]-they don’t believe in Jesus and yet they are forgiven?
Micks reply - Huh? Who says Jews are forgiven for rejecting Jesus?
Satori quote - So, because a book says a guy performed miracles you believe it?
Micks reply - The bibles a history book, so if you dismiss it as “lies” why stop there, why not dismiss every other history book? For example did Nero really fiddle while Rome burned, or was he playing a bass guitar?
Mick,
Come on now, what the fuck is that?
If you want anyone around here to took you seriously you’re going to have to at least… actually, no, it’s clear you don’t want to be taken seriously.
kudos to you man, couldn’t have put it better myself.
on the subject of the Jews, they could also be called a proof of Jesus. if Jesus never rose from the dead, they would have produced a body and shown it to the people who believed, thus making the belief null and worthless. by not being able to disprove any events, including and especially the resurrection, of Jesus, they basically stand as further proof, as a sort of falsehood for the truth.
mick.
havent you ever heard napolean’s quote “history is a fable agreed upon”
the losers have their documents burned and the winners write down their recolection of the story…
dont be so closed minded
so you’re using history to analyze and/or back up history? how amusing. but are you sure Napoleon isn’t just a “fable agreed upon”? also define “winners” and “losers” please. I would ask you to not be so close-minded as well.
stop spliting hairs.
Mick does the same when he becomes aware hes wrong.
winners in this case being the ones who hold the power. The people who have the capacity and willingness to destroy other’s records. and publish their own and distrubute it among the people. the losers being the ones who dont have thouse means.
also. you 're right one one thing. If you want to say for the sake of this debate the validity of napolean somebody we have “Physical Proof Existed” and whose quote is taking from a book “He wrote”. regardless though. I must agree with you. I persoanlly have no means of knowing wheter or not he physically said that quote.
but the quote remains constant and applicable.
thats why, personally, i dont view the bible as history. I view it as a spiritual metaphor.
I am not arguing wheiter or not christ existed ( i believe he was our savior). What i am arguing is the principle of you’re arguments.
and manly what i was disagreeing with Mick’s argument was the validity of history. And how just becomes something is said to be history dosent mean it too be truth.
If this is your definition of an atheist, then the atheist is a closed-minded empiricist. However, empiricists aren’t necessarily insane, and most atheists don’t say that anyway. So no, atheism, whether your strawman or the actual ideology, isn’t equivalent to insanity, unless you have a very convoluted or at least unconventional definition of insanity.
Most atheists, as you can probably tell from this thread, deny God because they feel the idea either has logical contradictions or doesn’t really clarify itself well enough to be held as a definite idea (i.e. God is too ambiguous to be meaningful). Other atheists mostly deny God because of people doing things like you’re doing now (no offense intended); the institutional arm of theism seems coercive, invasive, and hypocritical, hence atheists deny their ideas.
I’m Christian, but probably not in many ways that you are; I don’t think every conception of God is meaningless or irrational, and I think faith is important. But I don’t think it’s insane of people to disagree with me.
The Quran is a history book too:
members.tripod.com/maseeh1/advices7/id154.htm
guess you’re a muslim now Mick… good luck with that.
Notice that many standard Christian apologetics arguments about the miracles of Jesus can also be applied to the Quran. For example people say the authors of the gospels could never have embellished or fabricated any part of the miracle accounts because 1. they died for their beliefs and people don’t die for lies and 2. there were eyewitnesses to contradict what they said if they fabricated things. Well both 1 and 2 are true of Mohammed’s followers too. Are you going to be Muslim now? Or is it possible that your standards of a good history book are not good enough?
Shut your mouths about Jews deserving the holocaust you fucking nazis. What’s to say that ALL 6 million of those Jews did NOT belive in Jesus? There are christian jews you know. Being jewish isnt just a faith, it’s also an ethnicity. So generalizing all Jews as rejecting jesus is ignorant. VERY ignorant.
Don’t worry all my fellow non christians. I’m going to own this religion tommorow when I dismantle thee Adamn and Eve story.
Just a side note, People say the bible is open to interpretation. Well interpretation = opinionsl. Everyone has a different opinion. Don’t you see the flaw in this? If no one KNOWS for SURE exactly what to believe how will they ever get to “heaven”? hmmm?
Why did God even give you free will and theee ability to create your own opinion if he wanted you to be slave to the bible?He KNOWS that humans have free wiill. And yet if someone has an OPINION (result of free will) on the bible he sends them to hell? Some loving God he is.
It’s funny too. The bible speaks of God with emotions. “God is an Angry and Jealous God”. How can a perfect being have anger? Anger is an imperfect emotion. As a matter of fact a perfect being would not even have emotions PERIOD because all emotions can make one a subject to the wrong descisions. The only thing a perfect being can have is rationality. Since rationality leads to perfection. That is if the rationalization is 100% logical.
Like I said, my fellow none christians who exercise the right to think, I shall dismember this religion tommorw in what i would like to call…“Adam and Eve: The story of the rotten apple”.
Thank You.That is all.
You misunderstood me, I meant the book has been translated and brutalized since its early conception. It is certainly not in its proper and accurate form which you or many others would hope it would be in.
You said “Jesus doesn’t want people to go to hell.” So he is all powerful right? then if you know him so well; tell me why he would send all those who reject Jesus i.e. the majority of the world, to hell? Because they don’t believe him? Sounds mighty selfish if you ask me.
Actually i do dismiss history books which use subjective stances to portray history. So, I will dismiss any book which says that said object is better then other object in regards of history. I have read about history all over the world and respect cultures but when a book professes superiority it is inherantly flawed. Since history should tell of the world’s tales and not the individual’s perspective.
So, lemme get this straight. Because the Jews could not reproduce a body this means that Christ rose again? Wow, I missed the jump to logic there. If you can’t disprove it; it is the truth. This is such a poor step in logic. I think the burden of proof lies with the Christians. If you claim for him to be what you say he is, shouldn’t you show us proof today. No better time than here and now. What if the body was just burned, or stolen by the Christians so as he could not be desecrated…but since they don’t have the body according to you that makes him a savior…><
Once again I respect views when they accept the possiblities of being wrong. To know the truth is inhuman, to chase the truth is sheer humanity.
I agree with you Alun Aedicita. You made a good point about what micks doing here, and Christians do alot of this. But then again so do many atheist, atheist however don’t have to live a life that’s surrounded by Christianity. Not saying that’s a bad thing but Christianity is in their face probably only occasionally…and depending how it gets in their face will construct how they will reply. I haven’t read every reply but I’m sure at least one atheist took offense to it… But what I truly believe is that atheist are just denying atheist, otherwise they’d be agnostics with just a passion for not knowing. I think I read where one post said Atheist just don’t believe in something that doesn’t have evidence, and that’s the best excuse I’ve heard so far. However, that all depends on how you look at it. I believe this universe is evidence, if we had significant evidence it would effect our free will tremendously. Atheist aren’t insane, they just choose to exclude faith…but only for “certain” things they choose…nobody can be faithless.