Jesus was no wimp…you’ve forgotten how he trashed the temple?..the punishment he suffered through before he was crucified?..he was a very brave and assertive man who stood up for what he believed was right against all odds. Even if you’re not a Christian, at least give him the respect he deserves as a man and philosopher.
How could anyone not like Jesus the man?
And never forget about Jesus’ six-pack abs! 
Easily.
Even if he actually existed, and the gospel accounts are remotely acurate, you are left with a man that created a death-cult and then basicly committed suicide.
yay.
Dr. Satanical wrote:
Realer than you can every be if you continue to think as you do. What do you think of enlightenment or cosmic consciousness? Do you think it exist, do you believe its possible?
Dr. Satanical wrote:
A death-cult? Could you expound?
Yes ,
I,d like to hear you explain this ! But I doubt you will , because you know christ did not start a death cult , if your refering to all the maniacs that have done and will do stupid things in the name of christianity , if this is what you mean loosely as " a death cult " , then its mankinds fault , and not anything Christ intended to happen
.
Disciple of Light wrote:
True indeed. Im still waiting for that explanation as well.
By as you do, I’ll assume you mean clearly.
What I think of ‘enlightenment’ or ‘cosmic conciousness’…
Hmm…terms used by fuzzy thinkers to describe a nebulous undefined concepts that add up to a rather comforting fairy tale for those not prone to reason.
Before I could consider the possibility of such things, they must first be defined.
Sure. Christianity enshrines death as the gateway to something better. It causes one to ‘live towards death’, gazing toward a richer life beyond the grave. Wholey unhealthy.
Dr.S writes
Defining what is meant by “quality of life” during modern times is hard enough but the concept of “quality of death” is virtually unknown. Yet they are related in ways very rarely if ever considered in the West.
iliv~
Religious leaders understand their own religion better then you or I.
doc~
I dunno… It wasn’t easy for him to spend so much of his life teaching and traveling. He was not passive and lazy. When he said love your neigbor as yourself, i did basicly agree. When he said love God with your whole soul and your whole (etc, etc, love God more then anything) I did not like that. People who love “God” that much are an accident waiting to happen. They dont know “God” and they are just in a faith craze.
doc~
Hmm… One of my friends [a net friend from Pakistan, who is of Islamic faith] told me “you love life too much.”. (A rather sick attitude.) He also told me that [basicly] “the meaning of this life is a that it is a test and a prerequisite to the life to come.”
…
I would say: Stay focused on yourself and the people around you!
A death cult waiting for his imminent return to “burn the non-believers in ever lasting hell fire”.
There is alot to admire about his strength and his suffering it mirrors our own, and really jesus is the ultimate scape goat for all wrong doing.
“how are you going to atone for what you did?”, “I don’t need to I’ve got Jesus!”
But, to blame jesus for the faults of his followers is no attribution to the man himself. We can blame Paul and the writers of the gospels for the direction christianity took.
Dr. Satanical wrote:
No, not clearly, maybe I should have been more specific. What was it in this post…
that made you write this…
Enlightenment or cosmic consciousness can be defined as the realization marked by consciously aware identification with and an inter-connectivity between all things as being equally dependent and related to each other. When I say things, I mean everything.
Dr. Satanical wrote:
This is where interpretation comes into play. I interpret Christianity differently. “It causes one to ‘live towards death’, gazing toward a richer life beyond the grave”, while living a life filled with self-sacrifice and goodness in order to obtain this richer life to come. It can also be interpreted as enshrining death of the self, not physical death. However people interpret it, will be their interpretation, I dont see it as a death cult through my interpretation, if someone else does, o well thats them. Basically, its all relative, and it gives different impressions, it cant be confined to the one understanding of it being a death cult, or the one understanding that its not.
Dan~ wrote:
Hmmmm, possibly. But I would still have to disagree, and say that some dont. Or, possibly its not that they dont understand, but rather dont have the strength to follow as they should, their own religion in the ways suggested.
Christianity-a death cult ? 
Now that, my friend,is unhealthy…Even the point of view
is alien to Christianity-the real one and not some comfortable Ersatz. Christianity isn’t at all passive and masochistic as it may be described by some. It is actually a constant “Streben” towards better, a bold affirmation of the ineffable value of life, apart from its social and utilitary dimensions, an aristocratic poise towards promiscuity, a daily heroism that aims at making this worldstarting from one’s neighbour not only better, but alsoholy.HOLY, yes,it may look strange, but it is a dimension of existence, unfotunately experienced by few. That is true Christianity, which, of course, warns that we are all mortal, but its purpose is not to passively wait for death, but make this world(the arenain which we achieve our laurel wreath) “a richer life”.
illativemindindeed,
Ok, you asked for it.
Says who? By what standard?
Says who? Who says physical existance is worthless?
translation: “I know the ‘true’ way and you’re all idiots.”
Laughable armchair psychology. I could just as easily say (and more acurately) that the fantasy world you have imersed yourself in is probably covering up some issues of your own.
rofl
are you for real?
Dekeneu,
That’s what they all say.
Now that is the truth about christianity.
I would call it “the master principal”. The main point that you get out of all knowlage and feeling. If we were to see the real “meaning” of all, it would be rather shallow. If we were to see the “inter-connectivity between all things”, wouldn’t it actualy be our will pulling them all togeather? The mind takes this fact and that feeling, and then builds it’s way.
I would guess that you are not in posession of “the master principal” (if there even is one) but i would instead guess: You are very good at pulling facts and feelings togeather then giving them meaning and direction.
Please, correct me if im wrong. =)
I would also guess that you are a quick learner, illative.
I dont know what “Christian” really means anymore. I do know that my Jehovah’s witness friends live healthy life styles. Someone of an Islam faith (from what i have seen) actualy wants to die, or is willing to die, in a far greater way then a Jehovah’s witness would.
Check out my question about “faith” and “hope” in an after life:
[124- prl2]
If a man thinks that he is invincible as he faces danger, soon he will be injured or killed.
Can a Christian really believe in a resurrection’s and an immortal spirit , then live reasonably at the same time? Faith is a poor substitute for understanding.
Thank you so much for your post Dr. Satanical. You’ve raised wonderful questions… you wrote:
Of course, you know just as well as I do, this is by my standard. But, considering the moral nature of Christ, and the progressive attempts at obtaining to some type of moral ideology for man in this world, it appears that Christ has in some if not all ways attained to a wonderful example of morality to follow.
If man is attempting to attain to some higher moral nature, or prescribe some type of moral guideline, and Jesus was an extremely moral being, so far as we know of course, then why wouldnt he be the or one of the epitome(s) of how we should be? What are your thoughts?
lol. Once again, me of course. But considering the ephemeral nature of the physical, how everything physical comes and goes, should it be considered worthless in the sense that it doesnt matter? I mean really consider this, everything you had in your life that you no longer do, no matter how much joy or pain it brought you, you dont have it any more. It doesnt bring you any more joy, it doesnt bring you any more pain. All you have is a memory, and that’s less real than the “real” thing you had. Since its no longer here, and the memories you hold on to of it arent real and can only match up to what you did perceive as “real”, was it really that important or special? If you cant continue to hold on to it for all time, is it really something worth attempting to hold on to, considering its impossible for it to be held on to? When I say worth, this is what I am referring to. It has no worth as something that should be held on to. Why? Because it cant be.
Ah come on. Youve read enough of my post to know I atleast portray myself to be better than that. Your incorrect in the translation. Basically I am saying this… if you dont wish to accept that there is an eternal component to your existence, beyond the physical; then you will never attain to this existence, and will remain in the physical, full of its fleeting illusory experiences of pain and joy.
It appears you’d rather not attempt something beyond the physical, and therefore will only rise to the level of the physical. You can only live up to your perceived potential. But instead, why not at least ponder something beyond it? Something eternal that can never die. I mean you see everyday that the things in front of you die, and you see everyday that new things come into existence. Doesnt this never-ending process imply a never-ending source? If you are a part of this never-ending process arent you a part of this never-ending source? Realize it, and go beyond the process, and grow closer to the source, never-ending. Thats the translation, intent and all.
Ill admit, it is kind of humorous, but I honestly believe it to be true. All of us have hurt, and I suppose what you havent understood is that you live in a fantasy world as well. I wonder what you feel makes yours better than mine? I dont feel my world is better, I simply feel it makes for a better existence, a happier life that amazingly makes all that hurt and pain go away. And on the contrary, instead of being in denial and covering up any issues, I dig deep within myself, and attempt to make conscious all of my issues so that I can eradicate and change them. Im consciously doing this in my world, how about you? If not, then who is covering up? You dont have to live life accepting who you are, in fact this is the worse thing you can do. Instead, become fully aware of who you are, and in turn, if you dont like something change it. Makes a lot more sense to me. Of course, thats just me right.
Oh most definetely, this should be apparent by my last comment.
Im not against you, I only attempt to assist you in seeing the beauty that I see. Enlightenment isnt fake, it happens to us all the time. We grow, we learn, and we expand our consciousness. We have to continue to grow, or we just get stuck in the same self-defeating ways, and then what good are you as a person? Unless your stuck in positivism, you only contribute to the pain and suffering, misunderstanding and misfortune for all human beings. I would have to say, though apparently harsh, but with much love all the same, do something better with yourself!
Dan~ wrote:
I would agree, more so being that main point that enables for all knowledge and feeling to be understood as is, and surpassed for the development of further growth.
Possibly so, but how can you explain the instant realization of the inter-connectivity, without any will to do so? I am consciously aware of an inter-connectivity between all things, but many of those who arrived at enlightenment werent so. Im not in realization of this inter-connectivity as described by the ancient mystics and those who have attained to enlightenment. So is it my will that pulls these things together, or is it the dissolving of will to a certain point that allows this realization, being one of truth or objective reality?
You are correct. I would describe myself as living the path to enlightenment, more so than stumbling upon it as many individuals do. My conscious awareness of what appears to have to happen on the way to enlightenment, allows for me to while treading this path, make more sense of it as I go, gaining more information regarding it, and allowing to express it before the complete absorption takes place and my ‘will’, will then be completely the ‘will’ of God. Basically I feel God has allowed me the mental capacity to understand the path, and in doing so will allow me to further explain to others the path so that they can be better apt at deriving to the end. I know, and feel that I can give all this up, and simply submit myself entirely to the will of God in a deeper way, ultimately this is my goal, but it almost feels as if I cant do that now. Sometimes I struggle with myself, wondering is it my will that is keeping me from complete submission, or is this God’s will, making it so I can explain and further understand the path in order to provide expedited ways to enlightenment. Considering the urge to give up, and completely submit my will, to deliver myself from all this and attain to freedom, I realize I dont have this ability for nothing. I realize that God has given me this gift so that I can express to everyone the true nature of this path, and more importantly, I realize that the will to do so coincides with the will of God for me. Oh how I wish to stop and live an austere and simple life, away from all these wordly things, but a life of study and further understanding and knowing of the unknown and path are provided for me in order to help others, and I must go it along with God right by myself, showing me and helping me along the way. It truly is an ameliorating and enlightening experience in itself. Its hard to explain, but I think I have done it to the best of my ability without being to redundant.
This is an interesting question. It appears in belief, there has to be some level of understanding, and this level of understand is what separates those who live reasonably, or according to how one should live, or those who dont, and live a self absorbed life. I suppose your question can be illustrated through Jesus’ parable in Matthew 13:3-8.
After His disciples ask Him why He spoke in parables, He goes on to explain this one, He says…
The man who is the seed sown along the path has no understanding, so therefore his faith doesnt endure and he falls victim to the enemy. The man who is the seed that fell on rocky places, only last a short time because he doesnt have the root in understanding of why he should accept the word and have faith based on his experiences. Hes got no heartache and pain for him to understand salvation as it should be, and the salvation offered to him is based simply on the thought that it sounds good. Theres no foundation for it, and when hes persecuted for it, he goes along to what the majority is doing, or decides to follow something else. The man who is the seed who fell among the thorns, confuses his heartache and pain life experiences as being stronger than the word, he doesnt feel like he can be saved. So he understands incorrectly that his physical life is more important than the spiritual, he attempts to handle it himself, and never gets to grow spiritually. Finally, the man who is the seed that fell on good soil, understood correctly what was being conveyed. He is able to derive meaning from his understanding that applies to his life experience, and he produces change and growth in abundance.
Your right, faith is a poor substitute for understanding. But faith in itself, is derived from some type of understanding, and this understanding is whats important for production and abundance.