Thanks to english, you can expect me to talk about one meaning then oppose it with another meaning, though each meaning exists within a single word.
And that exeplifies why so many people get different things from the bible. It also explains why germans are reluctant to have their work ported to english.
Here is a prime example of how unclear english can be at times.
Objects in mirror are closer than they appear.
This is why people should first agree upon the meanings of words before they debate. Otherwise people will become confused.
In your opinion do you think most people on this board like to be more metaphorical than anything else? Using words to mean something they dont?
“Let me give you a little inside information about God. God likes to watch. He’s a prankster. Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift, and then what does He do, I swear for His own amusement, his own private, cosmic gag reel, He sets the rules in opposition. It’s the goof of all time. Look but don’t touch. Touch, but don’t taste. Taste, don’t swallow. Ahaha. And while you’re jumpin’ from one foot to the next, what is he doing? He’s laughin’ His sick, fuckin’ ass off. He’s a tight-ass. He’s a sadist. He’s an absentee landlord. Worship that? Never.”
- John Milton, the Devils Advocate
WC,
Well, sweets, I am not quite as cynical as that… but you do have a point. Do and live for others and you will have it covered. Pay it forward to those around you and forget about the ever so constant importance of YOURSELF. It won’t matter who is watching when you live that way.
gotta love it -translation gotta be intrigued and humored. Since Star Trek was mentioned: English seems like that triple decker game of chess. Only more intricate. Defining words when you are seperated by thousands of miles and multiple cultures and sub cultures becomes an exercise in diplomacy and politics even though you share the same language. Almost the equivelent of rewriting the language to form a suitable contract if done any sizable scale. It almost seems that half the posts on any debate is defining words and phrases. Is that the heart of debate then? Definitions and translations? Or is it beliefs and thoughts? can one be done with out the other?
The word Love is it action or subject , is it verb or noun or is it all? Dan, you said:Someone can love anything, no matter what it is. I guess the answer of what love is; can you substitute other words to replace the word love. If you can then you should know what love is not.
Following your replys in this post only shows that many are living up to the prophecy that states in the end time evil will be considered good and good will be considered evil.
This is plainly evident when Love is substituted for Lust. It pains me to see people glorifying that which is UnGodly.
Astral,
What is lust to you?
Well if I was the progenitor of the word then I would have rights to define it. But I do not. How about I instead post the definition?
by Dictionary.com
lust ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lst)
n.
Intense or unrestrained sexual craving.
An overwhelming desire or craving: a lust for power.
Intense eagerness or enthusiasm: a lust for life.
Obsolete. Pleasure; relish.
lust is not intended as a good thing. As per statements from the Bible. Also, when speaking of lust in the biblical sense then the definition of it from the Bibles perspective must win out. If not, then you distort the meaning.
So quote the Bible, eh?.
But what about the unclean women and food practices. The health laws found in the Bible pose an interesting dilemma for anyone who believes in following biblical teachings. The Bible clearly states that certain foods are not to be eaten, and that certain behaviors are sinful and an abomination in God’s sight. Yet people have been claiming for centuries that Jesus did away with these regulations, and that they are burdensome, outdated, bizarre and even barbaric. But just how did these laws come about? Who authored them, and why were they given? Did Jesus really abolish them, or are they still applicable today?
Many sincere religious people believe it is evil and sinful to drink alcohol. Yet, when we look at the biblical health guidelines, we find that drunkenness is what is sinful—not the use of alcohol. Warnings against the misuse of alcohol run throughout the Bible. Jesus’ first miracle was turning water into wine at a wedding feast. He would not have done this if drinking alcohol were a sin! However, priests were forbidden to drink on the job. The beneficial effects of moderate amounts of alcohol have been one of the surprises of modern medical studies. People who use alcohol in moderation—a glass of wine a day—have fewer heart attacks than alcohol abusers or total abstainers! Elderly people with digestive problems caused by a lack of stomach acid experience improvement when they take a small glass of wine with meals. We may use alcohol, but we must develop character to use it properly.
Could lust not be the same thing? If we develop character within our relationships then lust isn’t inappropriate, but a good thing - a wonderful thing and denying it is what seems harmful to me making frustrations (mountains) out of a little lust (molehills) and putting those like yourself in flux never knowing if it is good or bad. It brings on guilt when it is unnecessary.
Sex or lust isn’t bad unless it is misused. Why is it harmful within the sanctity of a relationship? How is that ungodly?
Glorifying Ungodly things are we? What things did we post that are ungodly and how did we glorify them? what making jests about Hell? Is that it?
Well that is not glorifying, that is humor, Humor is something akin to happiness joy of life, It is meant to bring laughter. Is that ungodly?
Then I stand damned and ready for transport. If your master is such a creature that denys humor then why don’t you and your master take your heaven and … well that thought was certainly ungodly so I won’t post it.
Are we evil and glorifying Lust no. Humor again bucko. You have yet to answer any questions with straight answers that is not exactly godly thing to do, it is real close to prevaricating, shame, shame, try answering my questions that I posted earlier would you, with out damning people.
Answer these simple highly moral and ethical questions if you can.
Explain how you feel happy to succumb to blackmail, threats and fall for bribery. If God faced any court in the land he would be found guilty of such crimes.
You don’t feel wierd or guilty about wanting to go to heaven and sit comfortably, while good kind souls are being punished in hell for not falling on their knees in fear of this god, during their really short lives compared to eternity.
You don’t think that is the least bit sick or demented? Why would you ever want to follow a god that has to resort to bribes threats and blackmail?
Why would you ever wish to follow a god that cruelly and abusively punishes his disobedient children for eternity?
Jesus did no do away with them. He merely set people back onto the right path. Remember the Saducees and the Pharisees all belief the old testament. Well its the Torah. Jesus set a few things straight.
Just like they say pork is a sin to eat I have found no mention of it anywhere in the bible. God said to not eat it, if you know much about diet then you would know why God said to not eat it. I have yet to read that God said eating it would be a sin. If someone can point that out to me I will be happy to change my tude on that.
Jesus said He did not come to change the law but to fulfill it! He primarily changed punishment on earth for behaviors, He did not justify them. As in when he prevented the stoning of the harlot. Just before He left He told her to “Sin no more”. Obviously she was still sinning but He only put a stop to her punishment of death! This in no way we meant to absolve her of any guilt of that sin.
Women are only unclean by their actions, not by their cycles. This is a little over the top due to piggish men. Jesus was correcting many of the Parisees, so that does dictate that all the laws moses passed down were not entirely “Of God”. This is why the Old testament is used more for reference. Only the Laws pass directly by God are still in effect. If knew the intricacies of “The Law” and what it was all about then you would understand this much better. “The Law” is not applicable to mans law… but this is “The Law”. Go and learn about it.
Drinking is not a sin. Getting drunk is. These are nothing more than a pack of dogmatic people who destroyed the Church. You will find that 5 of the 7 types of chruches are wrong and Jesus is condemning them. It really is hard to find a True Christian.
In so many ways this is just one of the reasons I do not attend church. They have destroyed the word of God in their ignorance and remake it to be as they see fit.
The usage of “any” drug is not sinnful unless it is abused.
Too bad you cant figure out the difference between sex of love and sex from lust.
Help me understand… I get the idea that you mean to imply that once 2 people are married they can be as lusty as they want to each other and its ok right?
Under those circumstances I have to giv it a pass. Even though 2 married people are sexually crazy about each other it may not be considered lust. Why? Because it really may not be unrestrained. Because unless they are cheating on each other and lusting after other people then I would say that It is best left to God to make that judgement.
I am refering to all sexual misconduct that happens OUTSIDE of marriage. All of that is easily classified as lust. Because if they really loved the other person they would follow Gods will and get married or married immediately after having sex.
So if 2 people that are married wish to behave unusually in the bedroom, how about we let God sort that out. I am willing to bet that this would not be such a great problem. But I have not sought/received any elightenment in this particular case.
An I would like to comment on another thing. I notice you like to use the word relationship a lot. God has specifically apointed the instituation of marriage for 2 people having sex. And that is specifically 2 people that are NOT of the same gender.
Once a man and a woman have sex He has promised to marry her. period, exlcamation, command, whatever. Gods law and it is supreme. Sex with someone already married is adultery and God hates it. Heck it appears that it might be in fact adultery to have sex with anyone out of wedlock and that sin only forgiven then you stop commiting that adultery or marry the person.
Big subject.
Did you miss my last post on the previous page?
I assume you are refering to this post? My apologies… I failed to notice it.
You must first know that placing something into a positive light is gloryfying them. For example. To equate Love to Lust is to glorify the lust.
Many a truth are said in jest ~ Shakespear (I believe). If I was being too presumtive please accept my apologies. Because I often see the method of picking and playing to be serious when speaking in a serious situation. I dont think it is the case 100% of the time, but that is also the reason that jokes are best left out of it.
God does not have a problem with humor. But this does not make ‘dark’ humor ok with God.
Dont worry… your unGodly thought will not happen. You might as well have finished it. People will be judged moreso by their intentions than they will be by their actions. The intent to even hint at the remark might be standing against you on judgement day.
I will remind you that blasphemy is considered the unforgiven sin. It is not forgiven in this Life nor in the next. Do you know why it is not? Because everyone knows for a Fact God is there. And God is blatantly aware of this fact, for He is the one who made it so. So I put to you… there is no reason to speak against God… speak against me instead, those can always be forgiven.
I answered this allready. There is none here who can Challenge God. Before you think yourself worthy I refer yourself to the bible.
Start at Job chapter 38 verse 1.
Read that! If you still think you or any freakshow of a sinfully foolish person here on earth has a chance against that then go right ahead. You certainly do not need me around with any of this foolishness!
The bible sure does present a great deal of knowlege about space/physics for some odd reason there. I hope you can begin to understand that you are barking so way up the wrong tree.
Your just pissing in the wind. What is it to be good and kind? Is it not defined by the Creator? Go to Him with such questions, it is neither my place nor my rights to account for God, and neither is it yours to bring Him to accountability! God can take care of Himself, bring your questions to Him so He can ask of your qualifications to challenge Him first!
We are not down here to be Just Good and Kind! We are here on trial! We have been purchased by the blood of Christ. He gets to set the tone of salvation NOT YOU!
Why dont you go get the blessings of God to do as Christ has done, so you can take His place? You can’t you have already disqualified yourself.
There is no bribe or blackmail. Under you explanation everything is a bribe or a blackmail. Any threat of punishment you have offered your child/husband/another is blackmail, I would say YOU are being sick or demented by YOUR own classification! Get past your own hypocrisy before you dare Challenge God.
O yea… lets just let all the molesters and killers, and thieves up into heaven. We all can just have a grand ole time. I suppost you would enyoy living in heaven with a person that raped you, your daughter, your son, and killed them just after or maybe even kept them alive for more later. If you call that heaven I can only say I am glad your not in control. Thats not heaven, that is hell!
You dont know how many times God has come to them and offered them forgiveness! You cant count how many times God has offered me that, nor yourself!
You who would dare to Judge God places yourself Above the mighty Throne that only God may sit upon and would be the accuser, succeeds in only condeming yourself.
I pity you.
The euphoric feeling associated with love and lust are equivocal as they are mere neuro-chemical firings…not to downplay either of the two but it is essential to understand why before you can attack said object. Love is of course far more romanticized as it is of the “higher faculty”. While Lust is ran through the physical pleasure = guilt ideal known by our culture.
I have felt love; I have felt lust; and once you erase the social/cultural systems in our mind both feel natural. As far as the marriage hogwash; screw it. People can be together w/o having a paper saying its official. Sentiments can and should be the lead within reason (underage, incestual, etc.)
I don’t know for a fact, I hear people say it, I read about it; yet I see and know nothing. Assumptions are frankly “the mother of all fuck ups”. One man’s truth is another man’s folly. To assume that we are cognitively aware of something YOU believe in is a gross abuse to our thinking ability. Once again I will say this. You may believe yourself to be right but everything any of us believe isn’t true. I come from a background in Eastern religion and it is this stance which would get you into trouble in a proper logical arguement. Circular arguments = weak. Religious Deontology is a faith driven idea not one of truths. So, don’t say such things in a proper argumentum forum i.e. as you just did
I bet you if I read some Batman comics, or even some Superman comics I don’t think ANY one on Earth has a chance with them either…man I love fiction.
Man, here I was thinking that being just, good, and kind were ideals strived for by humanity. Then again who am I kidding we only want to revel in the doom and gloom of a guilt laden book. I didn’t know J.C. but he seems like an OK guy. I might drink some wine with him, maybe even talk about his beliefs. I would bring your beliefs up and I am pretty sure J.C. would spit out his wine. Not down here to be just, good, and kind…he would send a memo up to his father for that I am sure. 
Well, technically speaking on a large scale that is a level of blackmail by threatening punishment. Also, rewarding for said actions is a bribe. But then again that is just you know…the language we are conveying ideas and in your case attacking in.
I love and I lust. But what makes us human is our logic; not our dogmatic following of books or are ability to be swooned by emotions. But rather it is our ability to cherish and understand why we do such. People cling to the Bible because it sounds right to them, I am swooned by my emotions because I find pleasure on many levels in them. But repression does not a human make but rather understanding instead of only seeing.
Satori,
You are the man. Or is that the woman. Nice. Very nice. Finally another person who admits to a little lust. Such a *pleasure.
(*Poor choice of words, sorry 
)
I didnt mention anything about a paper. The question is, does God approve of this?
Of course you know for a fact God is there. Based on the numbers at least 80% of the people in the world freely admit they got the hint.
God has freely given us the opportunity to ignore and to reject Him. But only for a time. In fact God has already rejected us all, and if not for Christ we would not have any more salvation. This is why Christ is our savior. He saves us from the wrath of God that is to come.
Your substitutions are absolutely lame. Neither Superman or batman have been given the attributes of Omniscience or Omnipotence. God has these. Very poor comparison.
Man, here I was thinking that being just, good, and kind were ideals strived for by humanity. Then again who am I kidding we only want to revel in the doom and gloom of a guilt laden book. I didn’t know J.C. but he seems like an OK guy. I might drink some wine with him, maybe even talk about his beliefs. I would bring your beliefs up and I am pretty sure J.C. would spit out his wine. Not down here to be just, good, and kind…he would send a memo up to his father for that I am sure.
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You dont follow Christ, I do. How is it you think you are even close to capable of even telling me anything about my religion. The Being you Spoke of is my Savior. If you deny Him as you say you have already done, then He will not acknowledge you before the Father. It will be I whom has the chance to sit and have wine with Christ. And about the memo… I am rather counting upon it. You really do not understand much about Christianity do you? Do you know why the Jews were scattered to the winds as per prophecy for so many years? Because they rejected Christ. I doubt you will be buddy buddy and chum chum with him.
More definition twisting. I hope you guys go to a court and say something similar to a judge and hope you are not held in contempt of court. You are blatantly twisting words. Where did you get your education?
You are a true product of being a slave to the flesh. The flesh is sin, and the wages of it are death.
Well, then that explains that doesn’t it.
You see I may punish my child for an infraction of rules but it is also countered with love and explantions and to teach tech discipline, the punishment is only used to give time for thought and learning and then progress is made. It never was just because I said so. If I did that then how would he learn how to be a responsible caring adult. And as far as my husband goes LOL. He is my pard.
Yes I would accept a rapist and murder into heaven if they learned why it was wrong to do so. Even if it was my family or friends that they did such to. I have done so and will continue to do so. To condemn a soul to an eternal punishment is counterproductive. It creates worse problems then when started. It is not even reasonable that a omnipotient being would not see such a fact.
I of course am not pious nor omnipotent, nor do I have the patience of ages type of person and anger does overcome me when harm is dealt. I will take it upon myself to punish those that transgressed upon my life. I fully believe in capital punishment I have no problems with that in fact I think the govt’ is too gentle about it. But, would I ever condemn their souls to hell for eternity? Never.Not ever. it would be counterproductive to a viable soul that can learn.
I feel that a god must be better then me, more enlightened and have more mercy then I. for if it is true that a god created us then why would the god waste souls that it created.
do I judge god? Yes. for if there is a god then this god gave me the ability to forgive and learn and if this god does not follow what kindness and mercy is given then trust and caring is broken and so I would surmise that this god has severe ego problems and is in need of help. To worship a creature such as that would not only encourage harmful actions it would be the extinction of all creation. Therefore it is my responsibility as a creation to fight for all creation, to do less is is counterproductive and harmful. I stand naked in front of all creation for justice and knowledge, if that condemns me to hell then I proudly walk there. If god condemns me to hell for questioning then that god is wrong, dead wrong.
You still have yet to answer the questions. but,if you can answer these questions with out backing off and claiming biblical quotes I will back off, but,answer not pawn off.
How can you stand in your heaven knowing that good, kind and caring souls are condemned to hell for not worshiping the way you believe. How is that even morally right? How does that not affect your soul? Is that not a hurtful feeling? You would stand there beside your god and allow gentle souls to be punished
for eternitybecause they did not worship right? How? Why?
deep breath
We need to go out for lunch Kris… we need to realize NOW that there is no discussion here, but simply an unpenetrable wall of misunderstanding w/faust.
I posed the question to him of lust (perhaps) not meaning incest, rape, promisicuity, or wanton wild, sex with strangers. Faust insists that lust is just that. You have tried to explain that it is the WAY in which you live your life, your kindness to strangers, your rules of gold that you adhere so lovingly to - and yet it is the BIBLE that rules here, the word of the omnipitent God who judges without question of circumustance or reason - he just IS… He is watching with his black and white standard with no shade of grey in sight.
Give it up, Kris, and follow the path you already are, because you are the most religious non-religious person I have ever known… and you are my role model as I hope to be one for you.
You go girl. 
Nice summary Bess. I wish there were more wrap-ups / consolidations like this.
I don’t know why but what you have said brought tears to my eyes and soul. I can’t give up, It is an imperative that I do not. This universe has been bequeathed to life and in that life and universe we must honor our inheritence. We must honor it with knowledge, giving and sharing.
And would you mind too much if you shared a brew, sandwich and jokes with an irreverent soul who is willing to sacrifice for all and make rude ,crude jokes? and who thinks Tent and Faust can be best described as Mules with graduation caps and gowns. (smart asses) this to be found in case the boys can’t figure it out on the other posts LOL