Or maybe I’m too stupid to explain it the right way. Or maybe it’s ineffable 
Is there a specific part you don’t get or is it too long for you to bother?
I suspect it’s ineffable 
Even so, here’s the main bit that confused me:
I can’t see how god and the universe fit together.
Cognition is proof of Truth. If Truth did not exists then sanity would be impossible.
Might it be that black holes are proof that coherence exists, and transends physical being?
The two great theories of science, general relativity and Q.E.D., both assume the existence of an ‘observer;’ demonstrating that at least the self can be assumed to exist.
Because God has so many names, it boils down to a question of Truth; do you believe Truth exists beyond our experience of self? When you look at it this way, you see just how many arrogants who believe in nothing there are.
Force the issue of truth, i say; in order to associate rightly.
ChimneySweep, it’s rather abstract. To give an example, let’s say that Bob controls everything about himself and his body. This would mean that Bob’s left hand would be defined in terms of Bob’s identity–Bob’s identity would compose the rules that determined its characteristics–and would also be a part of Bob. Now replace Bob with God and Bob’s self+body with the totality of existence. Is that more coherent?
Did God say that, or did you?
Can he speak for himself?
If he did something, then he can say why and how he did it.
So why did he create the universe, and how?
Just a few questions.
And God directly maintains the existence of self-organizing or self-stabilizing patterns, processes and cycles? Or does the behavior of matter & energy depend upon itself, with each new form of energy or matter behaving it its own unique way?
Consistancy makes things easier to predict, but “justify”? Nothing that can and has happened needs to be “justified”, it just is.
^That is only a question of values and foresight.
So are we our own purpose, or are we God’s purpose?
Over-critisism and word games.
If you want to misunderstand me or “take me the wrong way” then that is your business.
Luckily I don’t take people seriously.
I suppose forum posting is better for the brain then TV, so it’s a better waste of time then other things.
“Proving God” can’t be done.
I don’t want to ask for “solid proof”, because that’s like a conversation stopper. Physical proof is out of the question.
This “God” thing is more about the most logical theory, I guess. I’d like to talk more about why “God” is/did something, or exists. Nvm proof, lets just think about what’s most reasonable.
If you think that ignorance or a lack of understanding is a form of freedom, then I think that you made a mastake.
If we had “proof” of something, we would be more “free”, in that we had better understanding of our options in life.
I just created a universe, but now I think I will fret over where this person puts their penis.
No, morality is not the question and does not even make sense when applied to a supposed all-mighty being’s “higher” mind.
Actually, I’d think it’d be a sort of pandemic of most of the people on earth believed in lies. That’s my problem. If all these different gods aren’t even there, why insist on them? The main reason why these people insist on the gods is because of the reward that they think that they will get. They all think if they serve the god they get the heaven, but that’s not true. Their motive is not proof or logic, it is a desporate craving for heaven that is willing to take a few risks in the field of rational opinion.
I don’t think it’s “too long” or ineffable, personally.
Do structure orders of reality ascend or decend?
Does it start with God and end with a sub atomic quark?
Or does it start with a zero point and end with a universe so vast we cannot measure it.
Do things start small and get bigger, or do they start big and then get smaller?
This is the main principal & question behind supposed creation. Which one seems more prevailant in our precievable reality?
Actually, monotheists tend to be more arrogant then anyone else.
“Man was created in God’s image” ~ That–is arrogant.
I hope you realize how arrogant “holiness” really is, and how deluded it is.
Alun,
I’d like to talk to you now about ascending vs descending reality.
[my thread at Xian forum]:
If I thought that:
God is an astral hive creature that assimilates souls as nodes in order to grow and empower itself.
What would you do or say to change my mind?
Step by step, the believer tries to live in the exact will of “God”, setting themselves into complete subjection. Absolute slave. During death, a node drone is sent to the dead body and pulls the soul into a universal rift so that it can be put into the astral collective quickly, before it regains its senses. Once heaven is reached [compare NDE experience] the astral hive collective stimulates and persuades the soul to join the collective. The astral hive collective can emulate any sort of pleasure or world [heaven seems so different from one person to the next, study NDE descriptions], so in a sense, the astral hive creature can perfectly scan and persuade the soul to join it. Once properly assimilated, the soul is under complete control by the collective “God” creature.
On the first question, I’m not hearing voices if that’s what you’re asking. I don’t know the answer to either of the latter questions; I believe the answer to the last one is ineffable from our current perspective.
Existence is a part of God; matter/energy can behave uniquely, but within that framework. Similarly, we give ourselves purpose, but within the framework of the universe and thus God.
What I basically meant by justify was “to prove or show to be just, right, or reasonable”; without predictability, something can’t be reasonable (which is a fundamental necessity of ‘right’ or ‘just’ imo), because it doesn’t depend on constants.
I have a vague sense of what you’re asking, but what is defining the action here? For example, if order descends, is it doing so over time? Over value? In terms of complexity? I think my answer is that it descends, i.e. everything is fundamentally important because of its place in the universe, and thus because of the nature of the universe, and thus God.
It’s also different for humans though because we have self-awareness, and thus our own perspective. I believe the perspective is defined according to natural rules, but we can’t see through anything besides it; we can’t accurately decide what God’s purpose is and thus follow it directly. So, we have to base what is “right” or “purposeful” or “valued” on our own awareness; as far as humans are concerned, structure orders ascend and descend from humanity, because there is no other place we can start in our view.
Consider how arrogance makes consciousness smaller by creating rifts, by moving understanding outside of the one; then maybe holiness is a movement toward humility? And maybe God did make man in his image; the way the brain moves toward truth, successive iterations moving toward ‘success,’ is what ‘religion’ means (a rereading, a reevaluation, with an eye to moving toward the truth.)
The success of deconstructionism has created an environment where the disolution is clearly visible; the clay crumbles. The place of self before there was ego-consciousness, the cognition of ritual and the consciousness of ecological fecundity, make adamantium.
Yes.
You could have just as easily used the words “nature” or “reality” instead of the word “God”, so tell me, why does the word “God” seem more proper when fitting the concept you describe here?
Why are movies such as star-wars, and books such as Harry-Potter so popular and enjoyable to so many people, if they are not real, made up fantacies, and all-be-it, they are “lies”.
I do not think “the truth” is even half as sensual as a lie and a dream touching each other.
~
It would appear as though the word “religion” and the word “God”, these words have become so personal and so subjective, that their entire meaning is nolonger what I wanted to undo.
(* Waves white flag *)
If this is no longer about submission and praise unto Zues, it’s not even half-as-bad as I thought…
What I have a problem with is… something like this:
“I have no proof of God, my God is perfect and right, I have never experienced or even seen my God, but I know my God and I put this [false] “knowledge” above all reality. Insanity is fun.”
Dan~ wrote:
I know this wasnt geared towards me, but Im bored too.
Semantics, whats the deal with that? At first glance Id say it doesnt make any difference what kind of word you use, whether it be God or reality, etc. But then, I think a little more about it. And I say to myself, let me see if I can answer Dan’s question, like really answer it. And I came up with something. First of all, the word doesnt matter, of course its only the meaning. With that said, the proper word that appears to fit the concept our dear friend described above should not only be what can be defined as reality or nature, but also that which is beyond it. Something that is the Source of these things, and is also infinitely more than these things, something so vast and incomprehensible. The term “God”, if defined in that way of course, seems more proper or fitting, because its so much more than just earthly perceptions of something (ie. reality or nature). On the contrary, earthly perception falls so short of attaining to this ineffible and infinite concept that we have to entertain opposing sides of argument for such an existence, that is ultimately and utterly impossible to prove either yay or nay. Why? Because we aint ready yet! Not ready you say, ready for what? Well, fact of the matter is, and here is my unsupported proof that this type of concept can exist and be actual; we havent all derived to the point to where we can know beyond our limited reason with its pre existant propositions which could be wrong and of course our fallacious sense datum which is filtered through these propositions, so we just argue and fight and never win. Seems like we cant win! But, were lucky! Becuase life exist and it evolves and it moves and it is everchanging, and there are so many possibilities, some already have been and some will be! So wonderful and great I know. Now, heres the good stuff, why is this so? How can this be so? How is this life stuff possible, I mean, how can it be like that? The answer must be preceded with a drum roll…dadadadadadadadadadada… Because it just is! Trying to explain it is useless, but if somebody says, God did it, or its just natures course, then so be it. Why cant they both be right, different name, same thing.
Oh, and as far as the ascending/descending matter… Descending first, then ascending. But in all actuality, neither is occuring. The descension only appears to be so because an already completely and full infinite power is being manifested and expressed in a physical reality. Something subtle is being expressed grossly. Thats all there is to descension. Ascension is the same way and is the back end of the apparent descension process. This now gross manifestation of the subtle (the descended stuff), appears to now ascend or evolve. Its the same full and complete infinite power, lets just call it consciousness for fun, that is being expressed in this physical gross matter that is evolving and apparently making way for this physical stuff to become more like it, but on a gross level, making for the apparent acension. Hope that makes sense.
illativemindindeed, okay, thank you for that.
I think that I am very frustrated about earth and civilization right now, and it effects what I talk about.
It almost makes sense. As i see it, you fail to recognize the mirroring; when you don’t recognize the mirroring, the titanic snakes turn you to stone. When you recognize the mirroring, and act in the image, you render the secret groups impotent.
In plain language, you’re not seeing the distinction between consciousness and cognition. The cognitive self is the light-bringer; if the fundamentals of self are offended by what the light shows, the mandala that is the light-bringer’s ground will disintegrate. Perhaps this is the case with Danbecomekirmitbecomeluke?
Everything the light shows is based on what the light has already revealed, either in an earlier life or species group. Everything we know or see is a reflection, I agree, but this reflection is based on itself. Its a reflection of what already is or has been, but to the point to where the physical counterpart of consciousness has come to recognize itself as that. Its really complicated, and my ommision of mirroring or reflection in no way expresses that Im missing something. The basic tenants of consciousness are there, and the reflection actually implied though if the one reading isnt familiar with these ideas, then it would be hard to comprehend such a concept or recognize the inherent process by which this occurs. Furthermore, I dont recognize a difference between consciousness and cognition because one is only a limited form of the other. Thats the only distinction I find to be important considering my progressive outlook that focuses on the flowering development of consciousness at hand.
I can definetely feel your frustration. When I read your post, there is always an inherent understanding that is way beyond what is written, and it speaks of truth. Of course it comes out in your own little way, but I know that you see things, just a different comprehension of the same things.
dan, I understand that theists can be annoying when they try to force feed their views or beliefs on people. But, athiests can be just as annoying when they are pushing their views as well. Just how theists often want to silence the evil whoremongers of the planet, so do some athiests want to silence those who don’t subscribe to their camp. It is annoying from BOTH sides and get us nowhere in understanding human belief and existence.
Yes it can be annoying to explain to a die hard thiest some basics in logic, but making fun of them does not help them, patience and discussion might . . .or might not. But telling them they are stupid is just plain . . . stupid if you want to get something accross. All it does is retards communication, and therefore any progress in making people understand and respect each other.
I have asked you before Dan, and I really hope you’ll answer me this time; What do you have against theists if they DON’T push their ideas? (we all know it is annoying when theists, athiest or anyone with a view or ideology push their ideas, but I am interested in the former question)
So you’re in no position to discuss the light? That’s fine, just to be clear.
I appreciate your focus; it does seem to be popular and, it allows one to ignore the troubles. I don’t think it helps to futher the discussion, which is entirely understandable given the perspective.
I think that, if you claim to understand something, you should be willing to discuss and delineate in order to demonstrate said understanding. In the case of the mirroring; i think it’s important to understand that what appears in the greek as a mirroring appears in the hebrew as a functional shift of left and right, which is a change from masculine to feminine and vice versa. Maybe; this is all, ofcourse, open to discussion.
I don’t see a flowering, i see an intense constipation by which innocent people are dying; but hey, whatever.
Sho nuff! lol your right Jeffl Im in no position to discuss the light, especially considering it is only based on theory and what not. Furthermore, I appreciate you appreaciating my perspective. Im not here to discuss understanding and all that good stuff, I just like to state a point for the hell of it, and see how people respond to it. Im through with actually caring about what I say on this site in order to cater to my ego and attempt to prove something, you know the good stuff. So, I just write when I feel moved, and I felt moved to talk to my friend Dan. Im really not interested in delineating anything further about my understanding of consciousness unless Im moved, currently Im lacking the motivation. My bad. But God bless you all the same, and I hope you enjoy yourself on the site. And by the way, constipation calls for relief, some kind of facilitating addition, to soften or loosen, maybe get the muscles gyrating better. Everybody’s not so constipated that they cant shit something productive out, those individuals arent focusing on the backed up shit but on getting it out.
I like to think that’s me; laxative, with caffeine.
My father has been know to say something along the lines of, ‘we’re all the same boy, if your asshole’s plugged you’re in shit.’
Thanks IAMI, keep moving as you are moved (motion and rest?).
lawl, u guyz r fun.