One does not have to deny Plato’s cave nor the burning house, Understanding reached, one makes their own way. This I find in Tao: The utter simplicity of it’s complexity.
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As heraclitus said there is the truth , then there,s the truth . The book: " The Transcendent Unity of Religions" by Frithof Schuon offers nothing new . The idea that all religions have fought because of some missing element rather than them all being wrong except one has always been embraced by disciples of the esoteric , in all traditions , hence the reason they seldom have a bad word to say about each other . Its only people that dont understand who argue and create turmoil
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D o L
Heraclitus understood. 
I agree this idea is very ancient but we forget and insist on debating at the exoteric level preventing us from opening to the reality behind it. It would be funny if it had not lead to so much suffering and death within the history of mankind.
tent
I appreciate the Tao. It contains a great deal of wisdom as to how to relate to earthly considerations. But “understanding reached” in relation to the Tao is not the same as understanding Plato’s cave and the esoteric transcendent traditions which assert that the spiritual life, meaning, and purpose, is not restricted to earthly considerations. From this perspective the need is to “awaken” from what we believe we are, to the direction of our origin. Finding our own way has a different meaning in relation to earthly pressures then the conscious realization of the fallen human condition in relation to our potential. They should be complimentary and not contradict each other. I like this classic story of the Eagle and Chicken that refers to this blind acceptance of an unnatural life.
The eaglet, like us, lacked self knowledge and did not understand what it could grow into so just adapted to fit into life around it, content to fit in as a creature of the earth and denying its birthright to explore from the sky.
Religions can coexist peacefully if vanity and ego are removed from the application of the seperate belief systems. My god is better then your god attitude is infantile and detrimental to any follower of any belief. We need religion right now for the majority of humans. It exists as a light in pitch black. To turn it off condemns the majority of humans to a fearful solitude bereft of hope or community.
Kris,
Might you have a historical or perhaps a current reference that would help support this sentiment? Of course, it may be that peaceful co-existence should be defined. I tend to see limited tolerance here. 
That is soo easy it saddens me to know how easy it is.
Wars based upon religious differences are nothing new. It is commonly repeated.
Segregation based upon religion is also commonplace in countries.
My god, my religion is better then yours. My god, my religion says yours is inferior. Here in the USA we have folks knocking on doors selling their better religion, Missionaries for different beliefs are worldwide.
This is all pure ego and vanity. Religions are competing for souls. Religions actually have cumulated wealth that their leaders control and dole out in sparse funding. If they truly cared for souls why are people dying of starvation and disease? Consider all the wealth the top 4 religions hold. It would end starvation and provide adequate health care for all who truly need it. It could provide the ways and means to assist people to earn a living not just accept charity from their saintly neighborhood church, mosque, synagogue etc. That churches dole out crumbs of charity means they want control.
Ego and vanity.
Instead of this attitude, try real acceptence, tolerence and trust. Instead of paper thin and fake tolerence, acceptence and trust.
Instead of preaching and fighting, use listening and patience. Difference does not breed animosity if there is the above, it breeds peace and progress.
Kris,
OK. I’ve got you up on a pedestal now. Worship protocals are being written out at this very moment.
Now for the toughie: How do you propose we reach this understanding among enough folks to have impact on the institutions they belong to? When do the controllers begin to listen? When does the spirit replace the law? How do we get there from here?
No pedestals. I have a fear of falling off them so I avoid them like a plague. I much prefer shadows and anonimity( anmimonity amnimonity, hell I can’t even say the damn word much less spell it from the top of my head 
)Google time:anonymity! yea! got it 10
I can’t answer those questions by myself, no one person can no one group can. You see , I see this all like an addiction. Society might just have to hit rock bottom before it can help itself, unless there is a concerted intervention.
Education and knowledge is the only way, and educating people takes more then just a handful of people.
To get religious leaders to sit down, unify and truly help the physical and spiritual rather then just spiritual for the benefit of their beliefs and the world must be done with people from all cultures rather then just a couple.
Fear and ignorance controls now.
The only real thing all leaders fear is loss of power,loss of money takes a distant third after fear of not being famous.
This is their weakness, this is certainly one way to aproach the answers to your questions
Multiple influences, multiple classes, multiple beliefs. It can start where the little guys from all over the world congregate and meet without seeing each other. The only tools powerful enough to do this for the world, the internet and communicating.
Tent, Kris
We can accept the fact that a leopard won’t change its spots. It is what it is and acts accordingly. For some reason we do not see the same thing in us. What a leopard does reflects its being and what we do reflects our being. If one of the major aspects of our being is “sleep” Man cannot change anymore than a leopard can. Dr. Nicoll explains this with far more understanding than I can:
This can easily appear insulting and naive. We think of education and the like forgetting that it all becomes incorporated into our being and societies react unconsciously manifesting results in accordance with our “being” All this is normal for the exoteric level of society including religion. Choice begins when a person becomes aware of their inner world and its potential. If they are serious they become involved with the esoteric traditions and strive to change through liberation from imagination and become themselves. This is the direction of the transcendent unity of religions that I believe replaces imagination with consciousness. This direction is possible for individuals but not for society that has become ingrained
Nick,
True that a leopard is a leopard. But man is a wee bit more. This isn’t to say that collectively humans are much to brag about, but change can occur for any human being. The statement that the level of being attracts life is a bit of a gloss. It may fit a statistical number of humanity, but it is a whole lot deterministic in its assessment.
I don’t find it insulting or naive. I simply find it to be wrong. Working back from as is behavior (effect) to historical behaviors(cause) may suggest a human trait or traits, but the assumption that this is a lower state of being versus a higher state of being is a fallacious conclusion. It isn’t higher or lower, it just is as it is. That a small percentage of people in every generation seek and find beyond concerns of duality is also as is, and has been historically as well.
I find imagination to be of critical importance. I need imagination, for without it, I cannot learn from my experiences. The inability to wonder, “what if…” is the death of curiousity, and it is curiousity that the small percentage of those examining from within rely on. In my pov, consciousness IS imagination. Without it consciousness is meaningless.
Tent
The whole idea of the esoteric tradions is that there is a difference between conscious and unconscious humanity. These are two different levels of being. You don’t believe it which is OK. I’m just clarifying the distinction.
By imagination I mean a function that is taking the place of a necessary function. The necessary function in this case is conscious attention or being awake or present to life. Imagination is just the tendency to go on automatic pilot and go with the flow. We are no longer in the experience but instead imagine it.
I hear that!
Perhaps, but an intervention by who(m?)? There will have to be a consolidation first.
Well, it certainly takes an intention to educate. I live in the richest province in the richest country in the world; there are 30 students per teacher (or more, in public schools) and they’re laying off teachers. The intent is clearly to create a class sturcture where you have to pay for a good education.
I live in Edmonton, Canada; very ‘multicultural.’ When i started my spiritual prosletizations there was actually some movement. After a time there was a group put together here that were to do as you suggest. Seems they got together and said nothing; that was three years ago, i think, and i haven’t heard a peep. I wasn’t involved directly as i have no relevant credentials.
Maybe. People are easier to control when they are alone; an evolution toward greater individuality, because of popular culture (which has been at work since the time of alexander the great), has made it easier for people to control (the controllers just keep under the radar, they are less concerned about money than they are about power and they shun the limelight like you and me, they’ve been at it for ages).
First, a consolidation of like minded people. You’ll be surprised at how few people are willing to entertain the wonders you suggest. Besides, the political ‘leaders’ are not really in control; they are very constrained.
I agree 100%; but don’t kid yourself, there’s every possibility that they’ll shut the internet down if your efforts are too fruitful.
I’m certainly willing to give it a go while it lasts.
Nick,
I do not intend to belittle anyones studies or works but, when people find motivation the world changes. The world’s societies has changed so drasticclly in less then 300 years even more so in less then 200 years and in the past 100 years the changes have been unprecedented. When you look at all the communication that flows internationally and all the human movement from one country to another It is creating a new society that is more attuned to each other. Sure there are problems but, overall there is a vast major pyschological change happening world wide. Due in large part to the ability for the average person’s ability to communicate outside their community.
The brainiacs have yet to do comprehensive studies on this. Someone is probably trying to do so now. Look at you sitting there talking to us people of different cultures and beliefs, thousands of miles apart. Only the privledged could do this only 2 or 3 decades ago. Now this is an everyday thing. What sort of changes do you think could be happening to the average pyscholigical profile. I know that this is helping people to become more understanding of differences. The big guys can’t shove propaganda down peoples throats and claim that all the people in one country are the enemy.
We have more information at our fingertips then ever before and it scares the piss out of all leaders, political, theological, wealthy and even the education leaders. Why? fear and ignorance controls populations. They are losing control, Less and less followers worldwide are blinded.
Sure it won’t happen overnight, but when you look at the leaps in man’s historical time line. It is. Yes, it is a race almost. Can we wake up before our leaders kill us off. I think so, but, it takes more then just a want or a need, it takes sacrifice.
We must sacrifice our vanity and egos of country and beliefs. We must sacrifice these to be able to reach out and commit to change with someone who is different. We must sacrifice long held dogma that has been shoved into our brains since childhood. The dogma is : Mistrust of anyone who is different.
It is amazing that both political and religious leaders have used this dogma so profoundly well. It has been pumped into all societies for thousands of years. People are sheep but, sheep can stampede, get too many sheep stampeding and the shepards will lose everything or near everything. So you keep the sheep seperate away from each other. That shepard keeps his flock ,This shepard keeps his. don’t let them mingle because then you will have problems.
Nick, The shepards are losing control and the flocks are mingling. It is an unprecedented historical event, that is occuring for the first time in man’s history on a worldwide scale. No, pyschologist or doctor can even begin to guess what sort of change is happening because so few people see it yet except for those in charge. They see it, they are getting nervous. Hence laws about charging for emails, about controling the net. All countries are toying with laws about controling the net. It scares the piss out of them that the sheep will stampede. Oh and think about this, the news media around the world are the sheep dogs. Who owns the news and broadcast stations? The extremely wealthy and powerful controllers and leaders. The corporations that control, along with religious leaders and political leaders.
When man communicates wonderful things are created, when man stops communicating children die.
Hi Kris
There is always the appearance of change but does cyclical change of form necessitate understanding? Are the cyclic changes of form suggested in Ecclesiastes the result of intent or do they just “happen?” Perhaps they are just reactions to the cyclical changes in the external world.
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Turning in circles may appear to be progress but is it really?
You suggest this obvious tendency towards syncretism natural for the flood of information that has become available to us. I know it is a very appealing idea but it is one that frightens those like me. It does so because though all this knowledge is becoming available, our perspective, which is largely a function of our “being” remains the same. Consequently:
Syncretic religion is like this. It becomes a man made creation without the means to accomplish the purpose of religion. It strives to create the unity of religions at the exoteric expression of our being thereby creating a bigger divide between the exoteric and transcendent
The transcendent unity makes clear the need to change oneself so as to grow to begin to understand. The syncretic unity asserts that as we are, we can achieve the realistic unity.
I believe that as these syncretic expressions become more influential their limitations will become more obvious. Communication will cease being the novelty it is now. People will become uncomfortable and without the inner substance normally found from the essence of religion. Someone must take the blame and it will surely be “the other guy.” The backlash is what concerns me since technology has created more ingenious methods of mutual destruction. It will take many wonderful speeches to clean up after that mess of body parts at the conclusion of active participation in the blind ritual of war
To really communicate beyond the level of immediate profit, people must know how to speak and receive the truth. If we do not even know what a lie is in ourselves, it is impossible for us.
The solution as I believe,can only come from humanities appreciation of its fallen level of being. This is impossible so the cycles implied in Ecclesiastes will just continue. I believe it will only be the minority that are willing to consciously see their nothingness for the sake of experiencing the truths within this transcendent unity that will profit from religion as it unconsciously devolves into more “one world” syncretic beliefs The loss will create a very dangerous inner itch that no amount of complaining or wonderful speeches will alleviate.
Nick,
The problem with levels called conscious or unconscious lies in who gets to make up the definitions, and who gets to be the judge. It isn’t that we aren’t all involved in making judgement calls, but there is danger in allowing the criteria and those who pass judgement to become concretized in dogma and authority. I will allow that there is certainly qualitative differences in awareness, but this too has no satisfactory definition since people don’t fit into pigeon holes very well. Everyone’s awareness is experiential and falls along a continuum that is constantly in processual change. If the “esoteric tradtions” says there are two levels of being, then those traditions have established definitions, which leads to either/or, which is the establishment of another religion. It isn’t that I don’t believe in degrees of awareness, but I definitely don’t believe in establishing externally defined attributes that may or not describe an individual’s spiritual place.
The “tendency to go on automatic pilot and go with the flow” needs a different word than imagination. Indeed, your description is exactly the opposite of imagination. Imagination is what spurs us to acting in all but finding rudimentary physical necessities. I use the word curiosity. Without curiosity, one is as close to stasis as life allows. Imagination and curiosity are intertwined so closely that neither exists without the other. Where would humanity be without the capacity to imagine, to say, “I wonder…” or, “What would happen if…”
Consider what is written in ILP. There is much imagination here. People asking the what if, why, is it possible that… For me, imagination is the most precious part of sentience. Without it, I die.
Kris,
Either you have a new church in mind, or a utopian vision. 
It almost has the flavor of 70’s hippie stuff. 
I hope you’re right. As a ‘blast from the past’, I see the differences and the potential as well. ILP is a perfect example of the mixing of people and culture and ideas. It isn’t the various philosophies talked about, but how the members understand and apply them that is the mind-opening experience. I suspect that is what keeps us addicted to this place: insatiable curiosity about how others ‘see’ their, our, world.
My cynicism says that the internet will ultimately be co-opted by the controllers, with China setting the standard and patterns of control that keeps the sheep bleating and chewing grass. I hope that isn’t the case, but just as a precaution I’m laying in a few reams of paper, some pencils, and envelopes. This open communication is a hard habit to break…
A new church? Me? gads man you know that I am considered atheist spriritual but not a worshipper I bend my knee to no one. I am child, yes. Oh and don’t mention the hippies or Utopia, I like controversy too much. LOL I love my neighbor as long as they abide by the fence rules and knock before entering.LOL I am too much a hermit.
I merely suggest the obvious and the patently easiest methods that I see.
You can love your neighbor or argue I don’t care, just quite hating and fighting because of differences. Its more stupid then peeing in the wind.
Then do please respond. Just one question, please; how do you feel about a real objective Truth.
Tent
I agree that building a society on such a basis as suggested by Plato would be impossible now. I am referring to individuals. When a person becomes disappointed in life and finds it inadequate to satisfy a deeper hunger, they look for alternatives. They may be successful in life with a good job, family, friends and the like but for some reason begin to wonder what they are really doing. Is this all there is? Something important seems to be missing but what is it?
The person knows that they do not know. No labels are necessary. There is no reason for this person to pass judgment other than to find some sort of help. This is where the real problem lies; fighting your way through the charlatans and dreamers.
Consciousness is more than just two levels of being. As I understand it, there are various levels of sleep such as theta and beta, as normally defined as sleep in bed. Then there is the reactive waking sleep that we spend most of our lives in. The next level of consciousness is self awareness, becoming conscious of oneself, where one sees themselves and can begin to “know thyself.” Next is objective consciousness that occurs in us as flashes and only really possible for those that have worked seriously to become conscious. So consciousness is relative in its quality but also the potential for man to acquire and what separates man from animal…
There are no more definitions needed. A person makes efforts in these directions if it calls them. But I agree it would be foolish to have externally determined attributes. One has to be conscious to understand consciousness. A teacher, if reputable and available, can only lead one to the experience. He cannot have it for him.
Imagination is what spurs us on. It is the driving force of our habitual reactions.
Creative thought and imagination are not the same. Creative thought requires attention while imagination just requires an ability to draw associations at random.
Curiosity is one thing and when it is fresh we can be more open to experience what we are curious of. But soon what we are curious about becomes classified and part of our habitual imagination We then build on this imagination and lose any conscious impartiality.
Going on automatic pilot means not being conscious of ourselves as we respond to life’s influences. A person can be very curious, discuss politics, art, and philosophy,not in a state of presence of self awareness but just as natural progressions of the habits of our personality. We begin to exist when self aware. but in the midst of all these fascinating exchanges of personality, there is no room for us to exist. We find it more exciting just to go on automatic pilot.
So one can ask what’s wrong with that? Nothing really if one is content to be a walking automaton. But if one is attracted to the influence Plato refers to as coming from the sun, then it requires becoming conscious of oneself so as to be open and able to receive from the sun. When we are caught up in habits and completely attached to the external world and fully dominated by our personalities that interpret life for us, we are closed off to the higher influences that offer the experience of “meaning” the person has come to need.
Jeff I would be pleased to respond once I understand the question. I am interpreting it two ways.
Are you asking me how I feel about truth as a real objective? Or is it more like you are asking me to speak truthfully of my feelings about a real objective for this topic? My time on the Puter is limited at any one sitting so I will respond more fully when I understand the question. I look forwar to the clarification.