Something Past Civilization

Mictlantecuhtli · March 25, 2016, 4:57pm

Indeed.

Artimas · March 25, 2016, 5:27pm

I didn’t say in America.

Artimas · March 25, 2016, 5:31pm

And you can in alaska. I’m pretty sure no one is going to go into the freezing cold to get you.

Mictlantecuhtli · March 25, 2016, 5:39pm

You be surprised. Everything is either private or government owned land.

Artimas · March 25, 2016, 5:45pm

Well I know for sure outside of America you can, there are still tribal people, who drink ayahausca and what not.

Arminius · March 25, 2016, 5:58pm

Cute, cuddly, depending on protection:

Yes, and they need even more protection than many people believe.

Wizard · March 25, 2016, 7:49pm

Just because somebody lives in a cabin out in the deep woods, doesn’t mean that you’re yet outside civilization.

To truly go “outside” civilization, you need to begin thinking beyond the premises of civilization, begin to understand the truths and lies, foundation that civilization rests upon.

Kriswest · March 26, 2016, 12:18am

Can we please not involve my Screamer. She has passed away recently and I would truly appreciate my little one not involved. Please delete that, thank you.

gib · March 26, 2016, 1:26pm

You’re probably going to have to get the mods involved if you want Arminius to remove that pic. I doubt he’ll do it himself no matter how polite you ask.

Arcturus_Descending · March 26, 2016, 2:06pm

Oh, so that does put a different slant on things. So you do not have a complete laissez faire attitude about things. Is that what you are saying?
Do you sometimes get involved where you think you may have some control and positive influence in the lives of some others?

But I do agree with the first part of what you said above. Do you attempt at first to see if you can influence something for the better?

surreptitious57 · March 26, 2016, 2:32pm

Now you deal with it by being an anarchist while I deal with it by being a recluse

I have absolutely no idea which is better but I am managing very well on my own

Arcturus_Descending · March 26, 2016, 2:49pm

Heeheehee? I put "heeheehee because that’s the sound of the laughter I made as I wrote the above?
What about you, gib?

Isn’t that a bit of overkill for an exquisite little thing like a snowflake when all it wanted to do was to exist for a moment or two?
So, tell me about the journey of that little snowflake after the rock…

surreptitious57 · March 26, 2016, 3:13pm

No. What I mean by working on what I can change pertains just to myself not to anyone else. I have nothing to do with other human beings
I cannot change the world so I leave it alone. I also avoid getting angry at anything in the world since that means I would want to change it
Unfortunately I am only human and sometimes do get angry but generally I manage to avoid it. I see detachment as something positive and
anger as something to be avoided at all costs. So I want absolutely nothing to do with it for it is very simply the most useless emotion of all
All I am interested in is gaining knowledge and understanding about all serious subject matter for the remainder of my life. Being a recluse
is absolutely perfect for that and it also makes it more difficult to be angry. And they are primarily the two reasons why it suits me so well

surreptitious57 · March 26, 2016, 3:30pm

One of the best things anyone has ever said on the entire net and I sincerely hope you can impart more wisdom like this
Sometimes you post total nonsense but when you put your mind to it as with this you outdo everyone here so keep it up

Arcturus_Descending · March 26, 2016, 3:32pm

Did I harm you in any way?
Show me the way oh great guru.

gib · March 27, 2016, 2:06am

I was mimicking you.

It depends. How cold was it? Maybe the cold of the rock was enough to protect that delicate snowflake from melting from the warmer air and the warmer ground, and it preserved its fractal shape for a good long while. Alternatively, maybe the rock crushed its fragile structure. Maybe the rock wasn’t cold at all. Maybe it was so warm it melted it immediately and it became a liquidy goop that got soaked up into the dirt.

And then there’s the question of how the rock got there. Did someone push it over the snowflake of purpose? By accident? Did anyone push it? Or did it suddenly fall from the subtle forces of the elements over thousands of years?

gib · March 27, 2016, 2:14am

Maybe those moments of total nonsense are just you failing to understand her wisdom.

Mictlantecuhtli · March 27, 2016, 3:08am

The entire world has become a global reservation. There is no off the reservation anywhere on the planet.

The only way to get off the reservation is to get off the planet. Good luck to anybody trying to do that…

Mictlantecuhtli · March 27, 2016, 3:15am

Wizard:

Moving outside civilization:

From Subjective to Objective,
From Childhood to Adulthood,
From Idealism to Realism,
From Security to Freedom,
From Liberalism to Conservatism.

Civilization is Security, housing women and children, increasing survival rates for loyal members (citizens), allowing anybody and everybody to breed in high numbers and for all progeny to survive. The function of civilization is to expand population, resulting in the consumption of natural resources, and cultivating untamed areas, colonization. The “progress” of civilization results in the cementing of class structures, revolving around beauty markers. Some people within civilization are most privileged, and therefore have most access to the resources and areas throughout all of the civilization. However, privilege means nothing outside civilization. Only within civilization is humanity protected from the elements, predators, and moral consequences.

Outside (civilization) forces any individual or group into morality. Outside, you have no safety nets. It is life or death, do or die. Sleep in the dirt. Eat raw and rotten food, to stave off starvation. All animals and organisms suffer in the “natural state” outside. Nature is full of suffering, pain, misery, and harshness. Morality is natural, as all animals understand innately that they must face the consequences of their immediate actions. This is the true meaning of any “objective morality”. Slave populations within civilization, who never step outside, have no realistic nor objective sense of morality. They are slaves, precisely because, their sense of morality, consequences, and costs are skewed in their favor. Civilization is an extended state of infantile immaturity and solipsism, where remaining childlike and ignorant are heralded as the highest virtues. To remain an eternal infant or child is the inverted (im)moral goal of civilized humans.

The defenders of civilization, liberals, are hypocrites in the sense that they advocate “freedom” but have no realistic nor objective sense of freedom. Their “freedom” is an inverted and perverted form of freedom. One that desires and demands rewards (Rights) with no real costs paid or owed. Pleasure without pain. Success without sacrifice. Wins without loss. No such thing as this, in nature, outside civilization.

You can neither speak with Citizens with any degree of respect, nor expect them to know, any degree of “Morality”, “Objectivity”, or “Freedom”. They don’t know these concepts, and, never will. They cling to civilization, out of a necessary and immediate fear, of the unknown.

This analogy was originally known to philosophy as the “Allegory of the Cave”. Within the cave, sits the Civilized man, humanity. They will never venture outside. They will never see the “real world”. They will never know, nor want to know, a wider truth or a wider vantage point of existence. They are stuck, firmly, within civilization. Slaves, through and through. In many ways they are both innocent and blameless. Most humans have been bred, over centuries and millenniums, to be exactly as they are today, as slaves. Unquestioning, loyal, humiliated, emasculated. They Serve the state and civilization without true rebellion, without any qualms, and without regret. Any longing they have of nature, of returning to the past, is based on idealism, and not reality.

They have no real sense of nature. They have been disconnected from the ancients. They have been severed from their roots, and re-planted countless times within an artificial environment.

You should not look at humanity as someone like yourself, who yearns to escape. They do not yearn. They do not wonder. Their curiosity is vanquished. They have no thirst for knowledge, experience, wisdom. You must understand, empathize, learn, and know, the nature of the slave better than he and she knows themselves. These slaves of society are powerless. They have no true power, except through the predictable avenues of state-society (civilization). The “authority” of a policeman is completely artificial, as is the politician, bureaucrat, businessman, teacher, doctor. True authority and “real” power is different. Natural power represents natural law, something that cannot be tamed. True freedom suffers within civilization, as civilization requires the suppression and repression of its slave population.

Your first step to understanding society and civilization, the prisoners within, is by understanding that you-yourself, by the nature and specificity of your question, are unlike you. They are not your allies, not your friends, and will not wish you well.

Because to turn against civilization, ultimately will result in the turning against humanity. And they will come to hate you for this, for being disobedient, “ungrateful”, and turning against everything they’ve been taught to be, and throw away their lives within.

Obviously a prisoner will resent and despise somebody who walks freely into, and out of, prison. But what the prisoner does not know, in this case, is that he and she has grown too accustomed and dependent upon the prison. The prisoners cannot survive outside the walls. This has been true for thousands of years now. What large percentage of “humanity” have lost their roots, been severed, and are cut off completely from nature? How many humans have no future, except according to the whims and wishes of their state-society?

Another brilliant post Wizard. You’re really becoming a favorite poster of mine here. Please don’t stop posting.

I think however you discount the abilities of the prisoners way too much. For the prisoners to escape they obviously need to burn the prison down to the ground, kill all the guards, kill all of its staff that assists the guards, and kill the warden.

Now, there is no reason as to why some of the longest imprisoned of these prisoners once free can’t learn to adapt on the outside especially if they’re mentally adaptable. I don’t believe it’s entirely hopeless concerning the plight of the prisoners.

Mictlantecuhtli · March 27, 2016, 3:19am

Those same tribal people being stripped of their land and displaced by governments or corporations?

Those tribal people?