The used car salesman (looked up to?? 
) gives something to the consumer in exchange for the worth of the person’s money – the used car. It’s a financial transaction. With the pickpocket, there is no conscience exchange, but maybe the education to protect one’s money better.
Don’t tell me you didn’t think of that.
Nope. We must all become Monarchists or be rebels. Viva Christo Rey!
Nick_A wrote:
Are you serious? You really believe we cant love unconditionally? Willing love is not hard once you get used to it, and the more you do it, the more nothing matters. I will love to the infinite all the time, and as a result when I see or meet people its almost become confluent in my daily life. Id have to say your belief wont allow you to love unconditionally. Have the faith that its so and it will be.
Also, when considering this topic once again, I think I have a working answer. Of course this is being used with Christian symbolism, considering the devil as a person, for he lives through us. Anyway, God uses the devil or evil in order for us to learn. It is only through good and evil that we can learn. When we do evil things, they come back to us. When we do good things, they come back to us. When we finally learn all of this, and decide to yield to the good and evil, not searching after one or both, then we have learned our lesson. The devil is a means to an end, and this end we must all inevitably succumb to.
I don’t understand. Isn’t the lesson to learn to seek the good results by performing good behaviour – so we eventually leave off the painful evil behaviour? There seems nothing to gain by continuing in evil behaviour, if the first half of your analysis is right.
my real name wrote:
You answered your own question partially. The lesson is to first learn to seek the good results by performing the good behavior. The bad behavior, ie. selfish or evil desires, are performed first, and when you have enough of gettin the evil results that derive from the evil behavior, you then move to doing more good behavior, inevitably receiving good results. But the entire point of it all, is to realize we dont “want” the good or bad results, but simply to accept them both. We had to eat the fruit from the tree, which produces the knowledge of good and evil, ie. a good cause will produce a good effect and a evil cause will produce an evil effect, to finally realize we dont want or desire for any of the fruit as to be satiated in this knowledge.
Why would you not want the good results?
Why would you be satisfied with bad results?
xxxxxx
Sure God has power over Satan! Jesus says in Scripture that he saw Satan fall from heaven,
and exileing from Heaven demonstrates power.
(And God uses the wicked.)
“God rest ye merry gentlemen
let nothing you dismay.
Remember Christ our Savior
was born on Christmas day
to save us all from Satan’s power
when we were gone astray.
O tidings of comfort and joy!”
mrn
my real name wrote
To answer your second question, you wouldnt, thats why you stop bad behavior, and perform good behavior; because your tired of the bad results.
In regards to your first question, the good results are fine, and I couldnt imagine that you wouldnt want them in themselves. Its the going after them that becomes a problem. When one comes to the point to where he sees the fleeting nature of them, in that they dont last forever, and in this realization one comes to accept that the good will pass, he allows it to come to him as it may, not necessarily wanting for either good or bad, but accepting both.
Rhein wrote:
This free will only exist in our free will, which is ultimately only a means for us to learn from our choices, which is what God wants.
xxxxx.
No, you said: “Not even in Christian texts does it claim God has any power over Satan. Satan, even as a demon/fallen angel, would have free will.”
I’m not sure of your perspective, so I should probably ask: In your opinion, does God use us free-willing humans by having us commit certain actions for the sake of intervening in human life. Are these acts meritorious?
I have often wondered why, does doing “good” involve sacrifice on our part. If we want to be like God, we would all be sacrificing our desires for the good of others. If Jesus was God in the flesh, and He said that “Whoever of you wants to be the greatest, must be a servant to all.” Nobody seems to believe, or wants to do that though. Going back to what I have said before, evryone wants all the glory and power, but none of the responsibility. The lower people seem to bear this load. “Fall guys”? Could it be we still want to be God, and not willing to settle being God’s Sons? The prodigal son parable keeps popping into my head.
Mr. Redden, I would say the prodigal son thought he know what the good was, but was self-decieved.
According to some Christian philosophy, “good” is the desirable. Having virtue is good and makes one happy. Once we attain virtue, our good can then overflow onto others … as we cannot give what we do not posess ourselves. It takes sacrifice to become good when we are not yet virtuous, but virtuous action eventually becomes a pleasure.
mrn
xxxxx
A beer and a hooker.
Ah-men.
Profit and power.
Rhein, I’m sorry to hear you don’t consider yourself a Christian anymore. I hope this is just an intellectual funk that will clear up later in your life.
I beleve there is a Psalm that is applicable, but I can’t find it in Bible Search. Perhaps you will recall it. It goes something like: You have saved us to show us your mercy, now use them to show us your judgement. There is also the case in Kings which has God asking his spirits who will decieve the king for him.
As I think Augustine might say, our obedience to God depends on whether we get the grace to do the good or not. So he might not contort our will, but he can leave the will feeble if it would be to the good.
Now back to the original question: What does Santa want? He wants good and happy little girls and boys. He wants to give out of his own generosity. And he discourages bad little boys by putting coal in their stockings. And a jolly man it makes him. Don’t they know that? Santa’s goal is for all people to honor the Christ-child.
mrn
My two cents:
If we’re going to tread the bible line (a huge assumption for me but never mind…) I’d say Satan doesn’t give a shit about us (or rather our attitude to him), his goal is our destruction and casting down God’s order, we are merely incidental in the conflict, although he might well engage in plots utilising humans. His ultimate aim is to eliminate us and restore the angels and god society, which brings up an interesting point, is he actually evil in this case? He shows humans to be unworthy of god, treacherous and cruel, in his way he is defending righteousness.
Anyway… Philosophically, evil cannot be defined without some limited precepts of ‘good’ and deciding that evil is moving against such ideals (but still prevents a definition of absolute evil); so trying to fit satan into this framework isn’t easy, it is best to say evil is destruction, any activity that limits or harms.