Fearing God

The religion forum is replete with questions about, and theories of the nature of God. It is the cornerstone of all discussion about anything either spiritual or religious. From one perspective this is completely logical and common sensical as well. After all, if we have no concept of creation or creator, what is there to discuss?

But from another perspective, one could ask, why do we need to know and define whatever it is one would call God? What is it that drives us to know that which is? What is the necessity of knowing all the attributes of God and our relationship to that which is?

I’ll make a big bold statement: The underlying cause of our seeking is fear. We are afraid to not know the unknown. What we don’t know may hurt us, or what we don’t know may leave us on the wrong side of whatever is “right”. Therefore, we pretend to know, or say we don’t know in the hope that we’ll be forgiven for not knowing.

If one considers the biblical story of the lilies of the field, one can see the allegory. The disciples are questioning where the will find food and shelter and Jesus tells them to not be concerned (fearful?), that God supplies to the needs of the smallest of things. If this story has meaning and we are capable of understanding, then what is there to seek? Are we not to live life in the security of knowing that what we need is provided us?

Perhaps we are to let our lives unfold as it happens, and not be fearful of that which we do not know. Just perhaps, life supplies our knowing as we have need of knowing without our seeking after knowing of the illusion of past or future. Perhaps we are to be content with now and stop telling the universe that we know - anything.

“Fear of death, is worse than death itself.”

Unknown is death, known is the illusion of continued life. This being believed, creates the need to know, to continue the illusion that each life is not built upon a fated thread, and when you are called, (expire), you will go, willingly or not.

Is it really God we seek knowledge of, or is it release from the grip of the Boatman that we seek?

Maybe. But this is a healthy fear that drives us closer to the creator.

Proverbs 9
10 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom,
and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

To ignore this fear or suppress it is foolishness. In fact Jesus himself clearly instructs us to fear God.

Luke 12
4"I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. 5But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.

I think this is very close to a correct interpretation. However, it should be noted that this promise is made to those who are already disciples of Jesus and is therefore not a blanket promise of God’s provision and care to everyone on the planet.

Plus, one must reconcile Jesus teaching on fearing God with his instruction not to worry.

Hi Mas,

Yes and yes? Perhaps religious services should be held in a graveyard…

But fearing death is fearing life, and fearing the loss of acceptance, love, and all our social and material things starts with fearing ourselves, as inadequate before all. Is it not fear that twist’s us into what we are?

I would agree with you if we could find certainty that most people logically examine their life and being to that extent. I don’t honestly believe most do. I believe they meander the course, with little thought to the end of the vessel, or it’s materialisms.

Just to be certain I am clear, I’ll further anecdotally: My father, (top notch human being), never placed issue on mortality until the fifty-ninth year of his life. When he realized he was one year from turning the “big corner”, for whatever reason, he suddenly became aware of the end of the vessel’s time. Since then, he has embarked on a spiritual learning journey, which I have told him repeatedly, should have started in his youth. But each finds the course in their own time. Now he reads the Bible, books by the Dalai Lama, (sp?) Depok Chopra, Kabbalah, etc.

He’s an intelligent man, but his spiritual intuitions were obviously short sighted. He put them aside, and as a child I was happy he did, for family, career, big houses, nice cars, etc.

Now that he is certain, in his sixty-fourth year, that the Boatman has his name as a reference, his focus has finally become internal.

I believe ownership molds us, fears on the mortal plane/reality, not the next plane/reality, until the end of that thread is somehow brought to our sight.

Hi JT

Or, what about,

“Not death, but shameful death, is to be feared.”

Socrates called such fears as fear of death and, e.g., fear of weapons of mass destruction, ‘bogies.’

Death is in fact part of the order of the universe and not to be feared.

Peter

Hi Peter,

Nice to see you drop in now and then. Sure, everyone will acknowledge that there is no way to get out of this alive, but my question(s) is, if this so, what is the need to ‘know’ God, and assign all sorts of attributes to that knowing, other than fear of not knowing? We’re here. Isn’t that enough?

JT

Hi JT,

Thanks for the welcome.

To get to your question.

If you’ve ever encountered death, say the death of a loved one, or, perhaps the break up of a a relationship and therefore a losing of someone you loved, perhaps dearly, then you’ll know as well as me that the emptiness, the void, the profound alteration in your affairs, affects you, or can affect you, so deeply that you talk to yourself and ask why?

Why has my child died, why has my love left me for another, why was my dog run over?

That which is now lifeless and dead and which was formerly living is so enigmatic, so meaningless, so tragic and upsetting, so inexplicably mysterious. . .

You need, it is an essential and deep need to speak to someone about what has happened, to try and convey the loss you feel. But there is no one to understand, no one except the void.

There is an unwritten pact between yourself and the void. You speak to the great silence itself.

There’s a kind of reason, and reasoning in what I’m attempting to say, (with some difficulty!)

We turn to god perhaps in our hours of need. God is always there for us at such times. There is nothing else. Each one of us an island universe. Of course, we all know there is no god, it is just an illusion, a make-believe, but that’s fine, no problem.

I’ve had my say.

I wish you the best,

Peter

P.S. Whatever happened to the, ‘Heavily Moderated Philosophy’ forum?

Hi JT,

Thanks for the welcome.

To get to your question.

If you’ve ever encountered death, say the death of a loved one, or, perhaps the break up of a a relationship and therefore a losing of someone you loved, perhaps dearly, then you’ll know as well as me that the emptiness, the void, the profound alteration in your affairs, affects you, or can affect you, so deeply that you talk to yourself and ask why?

Why has my child died, why has my love left me for another, why was my dog run over?

That which is now lifeless and dead and which was formerly living is so enigmatic, so meaningless, so tragic and upsetting, so inexplicably mysterious. . .

You need, it is an essential and deep need to speak to someone about what has happened, to try and convey the loss you feel. But there is no one to understand, no one except the void.

There is an unwritten pact between yourself and the void. You speak to the great silence itself.

There’s a kind of reason, and reasoning in what I’m attempting to say, (with some difficulty!)

We turn to god perhaps in our hours of need. God is always there for us at such times. There is nothing else. Each one of us an island universe. Of course, we all know there is no god, it is just an illusion, a make-believe, but that’s fine, no problem.

I’ve had my say.

I wish you the best,

Peter

P.S. Whatever happened to the, ‘Heavily Moderated Philosophy’ forum?

(tentative, as you get older, you will no doubt see more and more services held in graveyards.)

Peter,

I’ve had those ‘losses’ of loved ones, and broken relationships. Broken relationships are the hardest because there isn’t the finality of death. It is a suspended -in the-air failure.

But more importantly, it is in acknowledging our inability to know and to accept that. Perhaps there is a knowing, but I think it not likely in the conscious form we inhabit…

Philosophy HM died for lack of interest as well as a ton of adverse publicity…

MRN,

I am older, and I’ve seen any number of services in the graveyard. The trick is to see them as a teenager, but that would be too much to ask… Think about it now, don’t wait.

Hi JT,

I think you have the essence here of what I was trying, very badly, to express earlier.

I think most ordinary people as well as those of a philosophical bent are aware of this, as it were, inarticulate speech of the heart. . .

I don’t know about the ‘conscious’ bit - I sometimes think that’s just some sort of organic process within me working itslef out and doing the survival business.

The reality is perhaps that we must struggle on not knowing.

Good wishes,

Peter

JT

But back to the subject, the fear of god, isn’t that the so-called, beginning of wisdom?

As soon as fear the unknown takes precedence over the everyday fears of men in your life, for example, such things as where the next meal is coming from, (man does not live by bread alone,) when once you are able to overcome such fears, for yourself, each man has to do it for himself, you are on the path to an awakening.

But then men fear tyrants, or the threat of tyrants. . .

Actually, men fear their own judgements, their own opinions. . .

It is their erroneous, perhaps, mistaken judgements they fear, and these judgements are the only god any man will ever meet. . .

I don’t know!

Just a thought,

All the best,

Peter

People are afraid, very much afraid of those who know themselves. They have a certain power, a certain aura and a certain magnetism, a charisma that can take out alive, young people from the traditional imprisonment…

The enlightened man cannot be enslaved - that is the difficulty - and he cannot be imprisoned… Every genius who has known something of the inner is bound to be a little difficult to be absorbed; he is going to be an upsetting force. The masses don’t want to be disturbed, even though they may be in misery; they are in misery, but they are accustomed to the misery. And anybody who is not miserable looks like a stranger.

The enlightened man is the greatest stranger in the world; he does not seem to belong to anybody. No organization confines him, no community, no society, no nation.

• Osho

A

Hey Peter,

Good! And that is perhaps the important part of what I was trying to get at. (poorly) It is only when we see our fear as the ‘wall’ between us and all that is, do we begin to live in being instead of as being. It is fear itself which put’s us on the path of seeking that which we already have. We have life and we should live it. Only fear keeps us looking for life and for God.

If that doesn’t make sense, I’ll understand…

JT

JT,

This assumes fear is always a negative thing. I have put forth elsewhere that negative emotions are sourced without fail from fear, but I am not at all sure that fear itself is always a negative emotion.

Fear can be motivating. If we find ourselves with misgivings or apprehensions about our level of knowledge, perhaps this is a good thing. If we’re afraid we don’t know enough about God, or about the universe, or about ourselves, then maybe these misgivings and apprehensions are lurking about for a reason…maybe they are telling us something, something important.

We have to make a choice then, it seems to me. Ignore them, and convince ourselves there is nothing more to know, or use them to take action, and seek a bit more, just to make certain.

There’s been a lot on good things said on this topic. (imo: Ned, liquid)

I just want to mention (although it may be implicit in some of the others’ postings) that the original premise was about an apparently one-sided fear of God and fear of ignorance. However, on the other side of things, is there not love for truth which takes over as a motive? First we fear God, then we fear Him as a father figure…motivations becoming more love and less fear over time. First we fear ignorance, then, if we find truth to be a good thing, we seek it more for itself.

Is this anyone else’s experience?

(Also note the fear of ignorance wants riddance of ignorance, but the fear of God wants riddance of displeasing God.)

EDIT: tangential topic –
By the way, there being motives of fear and love for doing things, wouldn’t it be better if society had more motivation from love instead of fear? Think of all the inventions which came from the needs of war, and contrast all the inventions which came from free creativity and inquisitiveness? I think we are only beginning to advance technology out of positive motives (space race, etc.) and not out of the needs for battle. When we get to the point where we are more moved by spiritual motives than by fear, we can say, “Free at last, free at last…”.

I disagree with the original poster’s theory

People investigate and try to understand things simply because we do not understand things. Fear is a emotion created by the mind and its ignorance.

The only god I fear is written about in early american sermon where god holds man above a pitt by a string of pitty and love. At any time he can simply let go and end that life and sentance it to hell.

Blu, You appear to indulge fear (3rd paragraph), which you say is due to ignorance (2nd paragraph). I think you sank yourself argumentatively.

“The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”

Saying that I fear a god who is emotional, uncarring, contemptable and possibly hatefull should not have an affect on saying that I disagree with the original poster’s statement:

I seek to understand something because i am ignorant of it. Not because I fear it. Although its always a possibility that I may or may not fear a repricussion of not understanding it.

I fear a god who hates me simply because I am me. Not because I do not understand god.

I continue to stand that Fear is created by ignorance and that it is a emotional response.

Also the fact that the original poster holds that we are in the wrong in gods eyes is something else I disagree with on a philisophical level.