A godless universe may be more terrifying

A godless universe may be more terrifying than one with a god. If the structure of the universe is such that we all end up in a hell but there is no god and no “controlling” mind, then we cannot even hope on the mercy of a god. The point is there is no necessity for the universe to be in any particular way. It could be anything at all, a stone or electron for that matter may be experiencing a constant infinite pain (or pleasure for that matter) or any number of a trillion other feelings. Strange ? but not so strange also because the elementary particle of reality may be a monolithic slab of pure pain or pleasure or both or a mixture or anything imaginable.

The point is that the universe without a god, has no inherent design or logic, there is nothing limiting how bizarre it could be. Any insane thing could be. After all, the laws of science as we know them are just a quirk set of rules without any deeper necessity then that they are what they are. Why is the universe the way it is ? any explanation is just a quirk connection between items, any explanation is the same, all is equivalent.

Religion then may simply be a way of avoiding TOTAL METAPHYSICAL INSECURITY. At least there are some rules, a god, with a mind like ours, some hope. Then again god may have died and abandoned all items in hell and heaven, or the heavens may have become chaotic, mixing hell and heaven, or god may have gone crazy with his power going completely bizerk doing all sorts of odd things, or any other “wild LSD trip” thoughts could do. What limits the possibilities ?

What, are you suggesting why should the Universe demonstrate (of its own accord) anything ethical? Indeed, why should it care if, that’s all there is?

Nice. A superb double irony here: a God responsible for this world is a sadist, and the religious following is the herd of masochistic gimps.

I don’t find anything terrifying about the universe where there is no God. On the contrary, if God did exist it would be a terrifying prospect to know that such a world and its suffering was intended.

I have never thought to myself “this is the work of God” with any ease, but would instead ask somewhat alarmed “this is the work of God!?”

By this virtue alone it seems to me that God, if he did exist, would be man’s enemy if he at the same time made man to be obedient to the moral rule of compassion where he is subject to suffer.

I would much rather be ripped to pieces by a pack of rabid dogs or tourtured for eternity by the hand of another man in a godless universe than hope that it was all designed and intended by some God.

God is a gross estimation, as Fritz put it, an indelicacy to a thinker.

Also it is no danger to announce publically that God does not exist. Although many people read this and conclude that “all is permissible” because God does not exist, those decadent types that decide their action based upon consequences…the reactionary morals of the herd and the masses…are degenerate anyway and such conclusions do not free them from their destiny as worthless shit.

These religious types are obedient only because they are reacting to the possibility of being damned by God…not because they find such action rational on its own terms-- only without God the “true colors,” as it were, can be seen. Likewise, there are those who are not atheists by default, that is, they are atheists to express a reaction to anger toward meaninglessness, rather than arriving at such a position by honest, indifferent and rational thought.

It can be said that you can judge a man by how he treats his dealings with the possibility of God’s existence. What he expects, better still…what he prefers, must be contrasted to what is likely and his reaction to the case, if it be, that he is naive and mistaken. Such an incident can reveal true colors and one’s constitution, one’s endurance.

This is why there is no danger in the death of God. These lesser types are natural types and by their very nature are decievers who hide behind beliefs. We have not, as might be assumed, “opened the door” for all monsters to come in. They were there already…with or without God. Religion has never licensed someone to be an asshole…it has merely revealed it.

Subhumanus religio; the last great bridge to be crossed.

The other night I was abandoned by God at the bar with some friends. The mindless conversation was as thick as the cigarette smoke that surrounded it. The juke-box pumped out trash as they all drank over-priced beer and secretly stared at everyone elses girlfriends.

I wanted to seize the microphone and shout: “I bring good news. You are all trash. Dispicable cowards and losers, cheaters, liers, manipulators, thieves, rotten to the core. We shall celebrate! But you must first admit it. Let me borrow your girlfriend. Do you not wish to borrow mine, hipocrit? I see you staring, fucking her with your eyes. And you lie about it? You’d tell me God exists if I asked. Why? Stop hiding. God is dead. Become what you are, monsters. You are safe with me.”

God creates a METAPHYSICAL BOUNDARY to possibilities. We don’t know in which universe ours is contained within, or if there are infinte levels of containing universes. We don’t know which god or how weird or bizerk or how many levels of heirarchical gods exist. What if there were an infinite amount of oddball universes where we are atoms that suffer for no reason whatsoever, just because the universe is a QUIRK. God is comforting in this case, we know his mind, at least we fool ourselves.

Both science and religion have the same goal, to set a metaphysical limit to possibilities. The fact that an atom cannot see or think does not mean that it isn’t possible in another universe with different physical laws or NO LAWS AT ALL. If things work simply because they are assigned that way, without any cause and effect, a universe where the scientific method of reductionism cannot be applied, then an electron can have a soul and think and feel and a planet could eat stars because it is hungry. The fact that we have physical laws does not mean anything, they are just as quirky as if you simply assigned things to do anything.

So if any universe can exist with any rules, anything is possible. Even a universe with heaven and hell but NO GOD. Or a universe with an insane god that assigns all kinds of bizerk items. Our religion tries to limit the possibilities to a “controlling” mind like ours, lest we feel too METAPHYSICALLY INSECURE.

What if it is?

Furthermore, there are two general ideas of God: One is commonly an image of an old guy pulling our strings on a throne of clouds. An entity with an awareness comparable to our own (people even give God gender) who operates a system above the totality of our dimension. In this case, God is “a gross estimation”; not that people aren’t free to believe whatever the hell they want, but an idea of a God like that demands quite a bit of imagination.

The second idea of God is notably more abstract. God is still a system up from our world, but not necessarily the kind of consciousness we humans are comfortable thinking about; this God need not be more than a set of constant laws, so long as those laws apply to the totality of existence. This kind of God still bars “total metaphysical insecurity,” but doesn’t involve the kind of wishful, almost dishonest, thinking of the first case.

There’s no purpose behind adopting any other kind of belief imo; if there is no metaphysical security, then there’s no causality, thus no prediction, and thus no way to be responsible for what occurs. Hence, to assume a lack of metaphysical security would be to assume a lack of purpose, which is, by definition, pointless.

Yes, there are lots of people who believe the Universe is just a quirk. I for one don’t. In fact I don’t see there being any need for the Universe to sustain itself if it were. There would be no founding principles to base it upon.

So, we just happen to be living in the only Universe that appears to make sense? Or, are you suggesting it’s also insane? Whereas where would you derive your notion of sanity if it were just a quirk or, if any of these other Universes applied?

that depends on the actions of the godless.

Hell= material self-hate becomes spiritual punishment.
hope= pleading for a way out of self-hate and trying to regain control.
god= the “creator” outside of the created limits.

now that’s just giving possibilities.

what makes you think that , we still have the big bang theory you know.

itself?

the quirk is your opinion upon the laws of sceince.

it may be true that all are equivalent , but now your asking for a philosopher’s stone.

define “total metaphysical insecurity” please.

that’s a self-limiting statement.

Heaven= slavery for business , business for royal treatment.
Hell= business for slavery , royal treatment for business.

the “wild LSD trip” is an odd design , you manifested something for something else that which is nonexistent , you left a pill abandonded out of space and time thus leaving chaos within space and time and bizerk things are the reactions toward yourself , thus there really was no “wild LSD trip” but the reality you saw still remains…are you feeling happy?

those who refuse or accept them.

There are no founding principles. All is equivalent at a deep enough level. Why is there something instead of nothing ? This is the typical metaphysical question one asks. But the real question should be WHY IS THERE NOTHING INSTEAD OF SOMETHING ? Since anything is possible, all things can exist, all quirks being equal, then why isn’t god elvis presley and atoms small guitars ? There is nothing that distinguishes a presley universe from ours. They are totally equivalent. So while you are at it imagine any wild universe, imagine anything as crazy as possible, well that is equal to our universe, neither more or less necessary or real. THIS BY THE WAY IS ALSO THE DEFINITION OF TOTAL METAPHYSICAL INSECURITY.

And, while it’s kind of hard to pinpoint exactly where it was said, these are the alleged words of Max Planck …

Ever consider that each of the elements has its own atomic number and, that this could be the means by which the “fabric of reality” is programmed and maintained?

yes of course , i don’t think it’s a bright idea too put 1 spec of each element altogether , for a nuclear weapon called…

[size=200]Big Bad John[/size]

(sorry i’m a johnny cash fan)

I’m just speaking about the fabric of reality in general. Much in the way we speak of a paint by numbers set or, some intricate tapestry that we weave. It’s all assigned a specific value and/or number.

See the name of this post, and that is why religion is as popular as it is today. Too many people need the crutch of religion and the promise that their will be an afterlife in order to actually live their current life.

religion is popular because people are more influenced by their nonexistent wants instead of existing needs.
religion not only breaks that promise , but it is also the broken crutch holding humanity up by it’s irrational and fictituos lies.
you don’t need something that contradicts itself , if you ask me that is the stupidity without the need of a defenition.

So, why are we here? Just some whim, on the top of a whim, on the top of yet another whim … add infinitum? Well, since my world appears to be “well ordered,” I prefer to think it was derived “from order.”

Order is an aesthetic category. It looks pretty or “organized”, so it seems to make sense. What one person sees as chaos another can see as pretty or ordered or vice versa. Very subjective feelings towards the way things look. Are they pretty or ugly ? Everyone will answer differently. Then WHY IS THERE ORDER AND NOT DISORDER ? what makes order so special or superior or denoting something more important than disorder. They are all equivalent at a deeper metaphysical level. Order is a quirk.

And then you are looking at the box within the box. If you could see the universe outside the universe it would be totally meaningless just like that stone you passed while driving on the highway. Oh what you didn’t even notice it ?

Maybe matter is infinite and so contains within it all possible universes or said another way, THIS UNIVERSE ALSO CONTAINS ALL THE UNIVERSE THAT ARE OUTSIDE OF IT OR NOT CONTAINED IN IT OR NOT PART OF IT.

But then again, why the mystery ? We are matter looking at itself. MATTER KNOWS ITSELF, why shouldn’t we be able to decode the laws of physics ? The idea that a mind, god’s mind is behind all is based mostly on the idea that our mind can see regularity in the universe, can decode the laws of phyiscs with mathematics etc. But why shouldn’t we be able to ? we are made up of matter, matter can decode itself SINCE IT IS ITSELF, we are simply self refering to our own nature, no god is necessary. We are simply matter talking to itself.

that’s right.
i used to tell christians their spiritually telepathic with the opposite sex , thus they call this encounter “God” , it was funny while it lasted but i got punished at the church for some odd reason (i don’t even want to know).

In order for me to function in this world (albeit granted, it’s somewhat subjective), I have to acknowledge the order of this world. There’s no way around that. For example, what’s to keep me from getting into an accident on the way to work if I don’t follow the “rules of the road?” Really, one has to be very alert and aware of what they’re doing. All it takes is one little screw up.