I think the difference between Satanism and other religions is that:
So far, Hellspawn has failed to introduce any real theological ideas into the debate (Ohhhhh. I worship Satan!! Am I evil? I canât wait for an afterlife of eternal pleasure!)
Satanism isnât, insofar as Iâve read from Hellspawnâs version of it, a generative religion. It defines itself as a rejection of Christianity, but uses Christian rules.
As a theology, it is the equivalent of giving cops a raspberry.
So, Hellspawn, since this is based of all that Iâve managed to gather from you , would you mind:
Outlining your theology beyond, âNot a Christian, but beleive in Christian God. I worship Satan insteadâ. While a Christian worships Christ, if someone doesnât have access to the Bible, that statement alone is insufficient to explain a religion.
Outlining the rituals of your faith and their meaning.
Outlining Satanismâs use for self-cultivation.
A quick blurb on metaphysics and ontology would be nice, but isnât totally necessary.
Note: Edited because a half-completed though changed whilst writing a clause to produce quite the grammatical mashup!
Based on your last post, I pictured you wearing a small hat and being pleasantly plump saying, âIâll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.â
I think some here are being a little rough on our new friend Hellspawn, here. He rather deserves our sympathy. Hellspawn evidently roots for the underdog. Nothing wrong with that (Heh, Yopele?).
Okay, maybe âunderdogâ doesnât quite cover it. Maybe Big Loser in the Christian God Competition might characterise Satan more cogently. But, hell, he could bounce back. Gameâs not over. Thatâs the nice thing about eternity - itâs always there.
One problem I am having, though. Despite being an atheist, I am familiar with Christian morality - you suggest that what is evil within that context is good within the context of your theology. So, what does it mean that your kids, Helly (may I call you âHellyâ, Hellspawn?), are âwonderfulâ? What have you taught therm that maybe a mainstream type of Christian may not have? Do you know any Christians with âwonderfulâ kids? Could you draw any comparison, please?
Oh, and how are you indoctrinating them within your religion? Do you go to âchurchâ? Do you read them stories? Is there satanic literature for kids? I am sincerely curious.
Why is it that I want to say, âweâve got a live one hereâŚ?â I think there could be a possibility that you talk this way for effect; you know, to get a rise out of people. Worshiping Satan to me sounds ominous. Are you saying that you are a good person who prays to the Evil One.
(I donât believe in any of that crap, but it sounded convincing, didnât it?)
Am I wrong to say that you like being different? Am I close when I say your favorite color of clothing is black and you like your skin really, really white. Like Gene Simmons in Kiss? Okay, so maybe you wear J Crew cargo pants, but I doubt it.
Well, faust, if nasty words and vitriol arenât for slinging at devil-worshippers, what ARE they for? I have to admit, in the vein of you and Xunzian, that a little philosophy would go a long way in my deciding to treat him like something other than a comic-book villian.
More to the point, I find it...unique that a member of the very epitome of The Despised Religious Minority just happens to show when the subject of religious hatred and intolerance is flaring. Never say I'm not willing to [i]play ball[/i].
You got it mate, ever thought of running for Pope?
God created Hell purely to sling Satan and his followers in. I mean theyâve got to be dumped somewhere! -
Jesus said:- ââŹĹGod will say to those on his left, ââŹËGet away from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matt 25:41)
Er⌠thatâs also taken to mean that nonchristians and atheists will end up there too. Makes sense to me, after all if they never wanted God or Jesus, he wonât want them will he?
I will admit that I am at a loss to provide any names, here.
Ancient, transdimensional reptilians?
Doesnât have quite the same ring to it.
Is this a conspiracy theory in the making?
Yeah, though, Hellspawn - I am having just a little bit of trouble taking you seriously, here. So far, from what you have said, I would be giving you a more complete rendering of Greek philosophy by stating that Socrates wore sandals than you have given us about your religion.
By the way, is your Hell the same as the Christian Heaven? As in âIf you sin, you will be tormented by angels singing and harps playing for all eternity?â
To be perfectly honest, I canât fathom why God doesnât destroy Satan and his followers. Iâm not one to question Godâs motives or tell him heâs doing it wrong. I know what I believe to be true, and thatâs all. Sorry if that doesnât clear things up.
Danteâs Inferno and the Divine Tragedy are fictional stories. Before someone posts going âWELL C.I. THE BIBLLE MIGHT BE FITCIONAL TOO YOU DONT KNOW.â Let me please point out what I mean in making that remark. Danteâs Inferno was written with the sole intention of being fictional and taken as a fictional work.
Youâve misunderstood what I mean. Instead of the 50 Cent analogy, Iâd like to use the analogy of, say, a bomb threat in a school. As soon as one class finds out about the threat they will be running for the exits, and even if you donât know whatâs going on, you will be compelled to go with them because you see how frantic they are to escape.
Well I appreciate your honesty about the issue. It is just one of those questions which popped to my mind.
Yes I do very well see your point but I see it as how Roman Catholicism viewed hell. During the 1600âs that is though. But perhaps I am wrong. I simply used it as an attempt to understand the views at the time period.
Well I appreciate your honesty about the issue. It is just one of those questions which popped to my mind.
Yes I do very well see your point but I see it as how Roman Catholicism viewed hell. During the 1600âs that is though. But perhaps I am wrong. I simply used it as an attempt to understand the views at the time period.
You can call me naive all you wish, ignorant, stupid ,dumb, flighty and anything else it matters not. People judging me is a source of amusement to me. Why? Because I have learned that those who judge others without knowing that person fully or even partially are generally fearful, in pain, hiding from the real world, lacking in self esteem, so they puff themseves up by trying to make others smaller so that they can have false sense of self esteem to make them feel bigger and better about their own self. Judging someone else is just a form of a security blanket.
Would I have have him babysit my kids? ROFL for his own safety hell no. I couldnât afford the lawsuit he would bring against me if he survived. Now if I knew him and he knew us its possible.
By the way how did you make that leap that I would have him babysit my kids? I hope you didnât hurt yourself, it was a huge leap afterall. Oh wait I almost forgot, you are pretty good at making those long stretching leaps so it couldnât hurt you.
Uccisore said:
An Amish believer is not the same as a catholic but, both are christian
I know that bundling everyone under one basic religion does not mean they all believe the same way.
From your perspective Satan is thought of as evil. but, not mine. Satan is no more real or unreal then Any god. I donât hold with christianity nor any religion. Or belief As far as I can see someone is innocent until proven guilty and they have religious freedom and freedom of speech. So until he commits an actual crime or stupidly tells people of a crime he plans to do he has every right to request my respect for his beliefs or at the very least tolerance.
How bad could Satan be anyway? The Christian God set him up in his own kingdom, must have meant God trusts him somewhat. I mean really, you donât punish someone by making them the boss, that hardly makes sense now does it? If someone is challenging your authority you donât banish them with their own kingdom, hell no, you either banish them with absolutely nothing or you imprison them or you kill them. You donât set them up as a fellow deity and in control of a realm about equal to yours. That would be stupid. If you call that a punishment, Jeez you can punish me anytime.
So seeing that Satan is just another deity and it has hardly been proven that he is totally evil just because he is just in control of the opposite of heaven. And since I am only minutely knowledgable about the total religious tenets of Satanism I think I will hold off on judging them as evil and horrible people, I have entertained a couple in my house and they were quite pleasant about the same as any of the christians I have entertained. Plus one dog we have is sensitive about people, readily accepted them. She is an excellent judge of character she has yet to miss the mark. Where I know I would. So I try not to judge others at least until I know them fairly well and then, Only if they cause harm.
So take what I said to Tab and apply it to yourself and Tab, you apply what I said to Ucci to yourself and we can all skip merrily down to my lollipop tree. ROFL
Kris,
The difference boils down to ârealâ religion (Ucci and I may disagree over what we consider a real religion, but that is a side debate) and a âreactiveâ religion.
If I say I worship Baal (A Bablyonian sun diety, and one of the figures drawn upon to create the idea of Satan), that is a ârealâ religion. I worship the sun and, you know, do sun worshippy-shit in sanskrit.
Now, if I say I worship Satan, that has a whole new meaning. Since Satan is defined as evil (and Hellspawn has accepted that definition), it is a whole different situation. If he had said that he was Luciferian, and argued about how Lucifer embodies the spirit of progress, being put down by a reactionary God who created a rigged game . . . he could have a viable religion there. But he didnât. He worships Satan, as defined in the Bible, he just believes that Satan will win. So, he takes Pascalâs wager and it putting his money and hopes on Satan and serving him as best he can. Now, he hasnât defined service . . . so this is all conjecture.
But it is worth noting that he has thus-far failed to outline his religious beliefs. That leads me to believe that he really doesnât have any and his âfaithâ has the deep-seated theological expression of, âI hate my Dad! Iâm gonna worship Satan, thatâll show 'im!!â Not all adults are mature, and not all theologies are generative.
From his posts thus far, he has given me every reason to suspect that he isnât mature (failure to discuss issues, raw egoism in discussions, narcissism, ect) and that his theology isnât generative (Itâs just like Christianity . . . but the reverse!! Ohhhhhhhhhh!).
I understand that fully. and I agree to a point. It does not make his religious beliefs less then any real religion. reactive or real. It is real to the person and how others percieve the religion may be a partial reason for choosing that belief but, it does not mean that it is not real to them.
He has only posted on ILP 13 times thus far and only 4 of those posts on this thread. Also perhaps seeing the venomous reaction perhaps he is hesitant or is taking a different tack. Who knows?
Until harm is committed then his is held in no different light then any other.
Satan is percieved as evil but, not if you question the validity of God. Like I said; Does it make sense that God rewarded Satan with his own kingdom? Christiandom says it was a punishment. But again, how is that a punishment? God Took an Angel that was less then a God, and raised it to deity level. How is that punishment? So see, I am not a satanist nor christian, but, even I can see a few problems with the whole Satan is evil schtick. So if you believe there is a christian god and Satan, and then start questioning and searching it is quite possible to be a non evil Satanist.
The reason i have posted so little on this thread is I wanted to gauge peoples reaction to meâŚnot to enter into any debating at this point. I am pleased to see that the majority of the posts are negativeâŚI wouldnt have expected anything less.
