Belinda wrote:
I think you don’t really mean “ the authors of the Scriptures” . “I think you mean the editors of the Scriptures.
No.
Definitely not “editors” as in the Scriptures it states…
Deuteronomy 4:2
2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it,…
Is Christian Universalism a Catholic doctrine?
From what I know of Platonism and Aristotle, Originality is Morally Good, and copies of copies of copies, such as “pop music”, is Morally Evil.
Abrahamism took this and applied it to Pagan Idol worship. Therefore, not only must Pagan Idols be destroyed, but Abrahamics who make copies of copies of copies of the Ark, or of the Tablets, or of any Origin of the Abrahamic God, would be practicing Idolatry and ruining the essence of the Faith.
The Original Thing (‘God’) must be Worshipped – NO copies.
The book of Deuteronomy is historical—it applied to a time and place
As historian you well explain idolatry in those particular circumstances. On the universal scale, Socrates is the sage whose life and work most counters idolatry—-Socrates asserted he knew nothing. Idolatry is psychologically related to hubris.
There is a psychological constellation: hubris: tribalism: nationalism: idolatry.
Idolatry is rooted in Shamanism of Paganism. It is used to apply a ‘Meme’, a symbol, back to Nature. It is used to remember, for Remembrance. Abrahamism destroyed Pagan Idols, in order to spread its religion. This eventually outgrew the original 12 Tribes of Israel, hence requiring more ‘Universal’ ideologies to grow larger. I believe that was the main cause for the rift between present-Christians and Jews / Judaism. Universalism was needed in order to expand outside the region (of the Middle East / Israel).
Regardless, the switch to ‘Idolizing’ Words / Text instead of physical objects, wooden figures of trees, of women, of pagan gods, etc. was a monumental shift in Hominid Consciousness and Civilization / Domestication.
Also I find it fascinating how the 12 Tribes were mostly Shepherds and Farmers, not Militaristic. The Abrahamic God is a God of the Sheep, Goats, and Cows. It is not a ‘Sea’ God. It is not a War God. It -IS- a “Jealous God”.
There is narrative coherence in ideas transferred through the medium of Judaism. The OT Prophets inherited older Israelite religious ideas and radically reinterpreted them—often universalizing, moralizing, or internalizing themes that originally had a narrower tribal scope.
The Vatican promotes this “universalism” and it was decided that the churches, the Protestant churches, may remain in their confessions and obtain salvation, provided of course that they accept and acknowledge the supremacy of the Bishop of Rome.
Karl Rahner, the Jesuit was commisioned to take a message to the world, that everyone could remain in their confession, provided they acknowledge the supremacy of the Bishop of Rome. Paul Knitter, who held a position at Xavier University, Cincinnati, Professor of Theology, (he studied under Karl Rahner) wrote the book, “No other Name” and in this book he writes, “Faces the concundrum of what the committed Christian believer does theologically in face of the growing evidence, scholarly and from personal encounter, that there are other ways, religious ways, of leading a full authentic human life, than the Christian way”. “Can a person be saved” definition “that is, come to live a truly human life, by some other name than that of Jesus Christ”?
This is a professor of theology and this book is virtually prescribed in all seminaries of theology.
"Knitter’s anwer is one can be ‘saved’ by some other name and can be squared theologically with a full Christian commitment.
It is creative theology, but it’s definitely not biblical theology.
If the Bible isn’t going to be the norm, we’ll have to replace it with something else.
Your comment on this?
I don’t join things unless the institution endorses freedom of thought. I would not want my thoughts and ideas to be controlled by the bishop of Rome, or the head of any other religious or political tribe .
I choose which sage to respect and follow. Of all the remaining ‘sins’ I believe idolatry of one’s own idea is the worst. That is why I respect mostly Socrates who claimed to know nothing but lived in truth and goodness.
The Bible as norm is insufficient. Most of the books that constitute The Bible are hard to interpret . Most people are not historians and can’t place in historical contexts persons, events, and ideas from The Bible. The Bible is literature among other writings and was created by men.
Until all men are educated to at least tertiary level in historical and literary criticism , the Bible unfortunately will remain a source for superstition, tribalism , and sentimentality.
I am confused.
These statements seem to contradict each other.
Can you explain further.
I can’t see any contradiction. Can you point out where the contradiction is?
My understanding of God /Allah is that ‘he’ is ineffable—so much so that only Go/Allah can know God/Allah.
Apart from God/Allah all other ideas are human constructs. Idolatry is the act of according too much authority to any human construct. Idolatry and hubris are closely linked. Idolatry is larger than idolatry of physical objects and extends to mental objects.
I’ve read as far as Joshua now, still in that book. The two primary examples of Abrahamic ‘idol worship’ so far is the Ark of Covenant and the 12-stones of Jordan. So far it strikes me that the Abrahamic God detests worship of other gods, and doesn’t mind the Ancient Israelites worshipping / venerating symbols of Himself.
As mentioned before, I believe the negative of Idolatry is when peoples / tribes / societies begin to worship the copy -of a copy -of a copy -of a copy of a thing, instead of the thing-itself: Originality. The Ancient Greeks used this to return to Nature, which they attribute to the Origin of all things. Nature (Origin) is opposed to Artifice (Perverted Copy). When an original becomes so perverted and obscure, that it no longer resembles its Origin, then those who worship it now worship a detached, artificial Lie.
That is where the morally Evil begins. It is a Lie, completely detached from Truth (Source).
RealUn, your exploration of Scripture as source for history of ideas is interesting. My own concern with idolatry is how that idolatry affects us here and now.
Idols made of stone, metal, ancient bones, and so on are either aids to superstitions or aids to prayer , and are harmless compared with idols made of people’s ideas . Mental idols are often unacknowledged and unrecognized. Mental idols are not supernatural but are psychological. Mental idols pertain to hubris and arrogance. God alone is perfect, and no human idea is so perfect that it’s safe to idolise it.
True, they started with Wood and Stone, moved onto Metal and Gold, then finally …to Text and Scripture, hence the evolutionary shift to ‘Semitics’. Language-worship. Text idolatry. Instead of primitive hominids worshipping physical symbols, they shifted into worshipping metaphysical symbols.
Much of Humanity believes something …simply because it’s written in a Book, or, simply because it’s on TV. It’s called Group-thinking and Herd-mentality. It affects mostly the weak minded and lowest IQs first and foremost.
It is the reason Humanity is marketed to on a daily basis. The Western Psychologists know this full well (especially Freud and Bernays which upgraded the technique throughout the West, this recent Century).
I’m also connecting how Humanity has a tendency at the Median IQ, to take text Literally, unable to interpret nuance, subtlety, figuratives, metaphors, analogies, and the like. As you recently admitted, people also cannot understand Historical text in the times they were written.
Are priests irresponsible to preach myth as if it were history? I have not been inside a church for decades, and perhaps priests no longer do so?
Certainly among online philosophy groups many contributors fail to see any difference between the Jesus of history and the Christ of faith.
Some Protestants do. Protestantism doesn’t have a very effective method of eliminating Heresy. While Catholicism has congregations of Authorities, to the Archbishops and Pope. So a Catholic Priest preaching and practicing Heresy would eventually be exiled.
There are LGBTQ+++ “Churches” in America, because of Protestantism. They conveniently ignore all the parts of the Bible where homosexuality and perversion were/are Death Sentences. Protestantism is like a “pick and choose” your own Religion. It’s obviously heretical. What ‘Objective’ standard ought Protestants conform to, without guidance from a superior council of judgment?
Throughout human history, tribes/societies tend to look to their Elders for advice, guidance, and wisdom. This is not the case in the West.
The enormous endurance of Christianity is its capability to adapt to all historical changes.
@RealUn Jesus wasn’t a LGBT-phobe. He actually praised eunuchs as superior beings.
Your attitude is exactly why the Old-testament must go. You are talking about death penalties for gays. Are you a Himmler fan now or something? What’s next? We bring back stoning and human sacrifices? Why limit the old testament to only oppression of gays? The old testament preaches genocides against straight people as well. Why not also circumcize them too?