a look at our current world vs the past...

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
1

I am reading Ishiah Berlin book, ‘‘The Sense of Reality’’ which is a series
of essays…and the essay I am currently reading "Kant as an unfamiliar
of Nationalism’’ and one of the arguments that Berlin bring out is
an interesting one and very much in the spirit of much debate around
ILP today… the ongoing debate between Sammy and myself centers
around one of the ideas of man within nature debate…

One of Sammy arguments is that there is violence and mayhem in
the world because of the American idea of multiculturalism and
diversity…a dubious proposition at best, but ok…and because
Sammy is a bigot and very prejudice against blacks and immigrants…
he claims that we can know that multiculturalism/diversity is wrong
because of the violence he is constantly showing us in his videos,
both on you tube and X… and whatever sources he can find that
back up his already decided upon biases and prejudices…
in other words, he only posts stuff that already confirms his biases…
he is seeking out confirmation biases stuff…and anything that does
not confirm his bias, is discarded and ignored…

and this lay out an important point… that the world seems to be falling
apart and going to pieces… Sammy blames liberals and their diversity
and multiculturalism for this… I am not that easily impressed and I
wish to see deeper into this situation… and in one sense, I have
found a possible reason for our world wide state of discontent and
alienation in the world today… and if Sammy wasn’t so bent in seeking
out his confirmation biases, he might see this…

the basic point is that man seemed to be ok until he lost his place in
nature… that the ancient world through the Medieval times, had a structure
in place that centered man in the world within either/or both, nature
and a structure called religions… as both Medieval Catholicism and
Medieval Islam, both followed… that man had a definite place in the
universe set by god/nature… that the world is a great hierarchy, with
god being the top hierarchy and then Angels and then men and then animals
to plants… well, you get the idea… and this idea of the structure of man,
came to dominate people’s mind’s for over a thousand years… and as long
as we human beings held to the nature order of things, with god on top
and man somewhere in the middle, there as order and peace and contentment
in the world… this rather naive viewpoint simply ignores Medieval history
and Islamic history… that human beings were alienated and discontented,
during the Middle Ages is a fact… and we have writings that confirm this…
but to those like Sammy, this was the perfect time to exists because
we did have a set and functional structure to obey and follow…
we knew our place in history, society, nature and the state…
and only when we lost this, did we become ‘‘soul sick’’ that has
been the focal point of human beings over the last 500 years…
we lost our structure due to the many revolutions of man over
the last 500 years… due to the Scientific revolution…
the political revolutions… the French Revolution in particular…
the Industrial Revolution… from which we still suffer from…
the Technological revolutions… from letters to cell phones and space ships…

with every single change, we become separated from our home base of
the structure of man which has been home for over a thousand years…
the structure of man being the hierarchy of being…from God to man to
animals/plants…and we have lost that… now Sammy blames our
modern multiculturalism and diversity for this loss of structure that kept
us in place for centuries… but we became adrift long before we ever
heard of multiculturalism and diversity…Sammy blames ‘‘Americanism’’
for setting us free but this discontentment began before the American Civil
war…and we cannot by any means connect the European alienation
and discontentment, that begin before our Civil War, on Americanism
or on diversity/multiculturalism…which is clearly an 20th century
issue…and the discontentment of Europeans began during the 19th century…

so Sammy is, as usual, wrong…

so, what is the reason for diversity and multiculturalism? it is an answer to
a particular problem caused by the discontentment/alienation of people
during the 19th century… if the various revolutions are causing us to become
disconnected and alienated, one possible solution lies in spreading
out our acceptance of people in the act of diversity and multiculturalism…
so, in fact, diversity and multiculturalism is an attempt to solve the problems
brought about by our becoming separated from each other due to our loss of
or being separated from the structure of nature or god…
the various revolutions has separated us from the natural hierarchy that
naturally exists above human beings… the structure that held us in place,
the hierarchies of existence are gone, the hierarchy that comes from god/or
nature…and we are now separated from that natural structure that held
us in place and keep us connected to each other and to nature/god…

with every historical act, we become more and more disconnected
and separated from each other and the society at large… hence
the problems of the Lutheran revolution…if the very act of
separating us into Catholics and Protestants… also destroyed
the entire of a hierarchy/nature that we all exists and belong to…

and the various ism’s and ideologies of the 19 and 20 centuries,
were attempts to return to that hierarchy of man found in the
structures of god and nature… thus capitalism is an attempt
end our discontentment and alienation by economic means…
and the political means to end our discontentment and alienation
of man came by the rivel to capitalism, communism and socialism…
just another attempt to create a new structure by which we
can find our place in the universe… a new structure that replaces
the old structure of the political, kings and monarchies, the old
structure of one ‘’‘world wide religion’ Catholicism…and the hierarchies
or the structure of human beings, that was the social, political, economic
and philosophical/scientific structure that was in place for over a thousand
years… and today, today we are floundering simple because we have
lost our place in those eon old structures that house man for over a
thousand years…

the discontentment and alienation of today is due to the fact that
we have no structure that has replaced the old structure of ideas
and culture that dominate for so long… if we have no god and no nature,
then what are we to replace the old structures with? that is the question…
what isms and ideologies will replace the old ism’s and ideologies with?
and thus find our place in the universe… and with that, we
are no longer discontented and alienated… at least that is the theory,
the reality is quite different… as we will learn some day…

Kropotkin

2

on the question of solutions… we see issues, as brought to us hourly
by Sammy, about the violence and disorder in the west…the conservative
solution is being a return to god… a spiritual solution to the problems
of the west… the liberal see the solutions in political, economic or
social means…the conservatives see the questions of existence in
spiritual means… bring back god, the conservative yells…

and the liberal will say the solution exists in bringing people to having a
say in their lives… to be invested in their lives…
right now, both economically and politically,
people have no voice, no investment in their lives…
economically, the product of our effort, what we produce doesn’t go to us,
we get a fraction of our economic production…as we don’t own the
means of production…to be blunt, we are slaves in the capitalistic system…
we get a minor fraction of our economic labor… if we fail to create
profits, we are fired… simple as that…
but we have no investment in our economic future… we get paid slave
wages and in the end, we have a very minimal amount to retire to…
I have worked for over 40 years and I have enough to retire for roughly
5 years and that is it…I will run out of money fairly quickly in my retirement…
unless I die pretty quickly… and then what is the point of retirement if
I get less than 5 years of retirement after 45 years of working?

you want to return order in our society/state, then you have to
ensure that people have an investment in our society, state…
an economic investment, and a social investment and a political
investment… politically, we don’t have a voice in our state…
those who simply buy politicians, they have a say, and we do not…
and if I have no say in my political life, why bother investing time,
money or effort into it… we get the reason that millions of Americans
are apathic to politics… we have no voice as to what happens to
us politically…

and the violence that Sammy keeps on returning to, where his
answer is a genocide of blacks and immigrants, that is bigotry
and prejudice talking not a real solution…
you want to end violence, then we have to get minorities and
immigrants to become invested in America, socially, politically
and economically…the welfare state keeps them alive, but doesn’t
get people to invest in their country…why should I keep the peace,
obey the laws, follow the rules if I get no return on my effort in
keeping the state in business…

if I have no rights in the modern state, why would I agree to be peaceful
and none-violent? I get nothing in return by obeying the rules, being
non-violent…hence those who are deprived of rights, gays, blacks,
trans, women, why should they invest their time and effort into
a society/state that won’t return their investment? If the state
takes away my right to be gay, why should I keep the peace?
why should I follow the rules, to protect a state/society that won’t
protect me… to allow me to lead my own life?
what is in it for me to put time, money and effort into a state/society,
that won’t give me rights, or liberties or allow me to be me?

where is my incentive? and the same goes true for blacks,
immigrants, women, gays, trans people…what is their incentive
to obey the law and keep the peace?

Kropotkin

3

when conservatives call for a Christian state, a Christain nation…
as modern Christians do, ( in a survey half of all ‘‘Christians’’
called themselves militant Christians, or nationalist Christians…
combining the worst of nationalism and Christianity)

and we wonder why millions of either left the church or never entered it?
I don’t wonder… again, it becomes a question of payoff… the question, becomes
a question of me putting effort into being a Christian, and my payoff for
this effort? what exactly is the payoff for being a good Christian?
you die and to heaven… and so the fuck what?
the payoff for being a Christian, is not worth it for the effort put into it…

we human beings only put effort and time into something if, if there
is some sort of payoff to that time and effort…and in the modern state
today, there is no payoff for being a Christian or being a citizen or
obeying the rules/laws…why should a black person or a gay person
put their time and effort into protecting a state that won’t protect them?
the investment a person puts into a state is not equal to the time/effort the
state returns to a person… and why should anyone in their right mind do that?
if I got an increase in freedoms, or liberties or rights or even the basic necessities,
like food and water, that would create some incentive, not much mind you, but some
incentive into putting some effort and time into the state/society…
and recall our physics… that the increase in order comes from an increase
in energy into that system… decrease the energy, and the system slowly
loses energy and becomes more disordered and chaotic…as our current
political and social systems in America are becoming more disordered and chaotic
because they are losing energy going into them because there is no
incentive to put our energy into a system, be it political or social
or economic… we get nothing in return for putting energy into our
political, economic or social systems…

the path to an ordered and lawful state/society comes from people,
like us putting our time, effort, and energy into that state/society…
and as of right now, there is no incentive for us to do that…

you want an ordered and safer society/state? you have to give
millions of Americans some incentive to do so?

what incentives are you willing to offer to keep America safe and free?

Kropotkin