a n t i d e p r e s s a n t s

dur. Most things are. I know its not easy.

well i got bad news and good news. seing how you are diagnosed with depression, ill start with the bad (do read through tho)

yes, medication had fucked up the way you think, and probably forever, and yes you do make decisions and everything else based on the chemicals.

any artistic or human unicity is probably iretrievable now, if you mean the same exact one, much like a pin is still in the sack of hay, but i’ll be damned if i can point it out to you.

on the good side, everybody makes decisions based on the chemicals they ingest all the time, we are not dematerialized just yet. foods change moods, addictions change habits, so forth and so forth. i am not sure you are necessarily worse off than the next bloke on the matter of “being yourself”. you are just alot worse on the “being who you used to be” score. but then again a bitter divorce does the same thing, for instance. who cares who you were ? the race starts tomorrow anyway.

further, just because you lost your old artistic persona doesnt mean you can’t have a new one. you will probably need some practice, and alot of rebuilding effort, because you are just different from what you used to be. it can be your making or your breaking, it really depends on how well you can work with yourself and circumstance.

so, to quote socrates, take the pills or dont take the pills, you will end up a philosopher anyway.

also, pale rider, excellent link.

zeno, youre so right. :smiley:
i couldnt stop smiling as i read through your post.

you know how sometimes people ask you “if you can go back and change anything, what would you change?” ?
well, iwould never want to go back…even for the terrible parts of my life, for even if it was the slightest most inane/obscure detail that i would change, i wouldnt be who i am today, and that goes for anyone and everyone.

besides, i am much happier now, i oculd almost say that the chamicals had helped me, because i know that every minute of life is so importnt…and i have a completely different perspective on life. of course, it prolly wasnt just the drugs, because i did alot of studying and exploring to help solve my problems…not to mention lots of therapy…giggle

so yeah, thanks!

btw: art is the expression of your soul…my style hasnt changed much but the feelings have :wink:


Hi zenofeller, I see no evidence that SSRI anti-depressants stifle ones creativity forever. there have been many an artist, actor and athlete on these things. So I dont think what you have said is universally correct. Once the SSRI is stopped after about a week all traces are out of ones system. Roughly about half the folks will experience some sort of withdrawel and about half wont. Some will experience some weird side effects that will persist for some weeks, sometimes some months and very rarely for years. Some wont experience any at all. Everyone is different.

I think your possibly scaring the guy for basically no reason. He may have a difficult row to hoe as far as reacclimating himself without the drugs depending on how loing he was one them but there is no scientific reason to believe that his creativity is gone forever. The blunting of emotions is due to the activity of the anti-depressant while in the system. After possibly some side effects and discontinuation effects (and maybe, none at all, just depends on the person) his old “self” should be back.

actually, in a way i disagree

okay, so these chmicals increase the production of seratonin and the exchange of chemicals btwn neurons. this alters your mood, meaning that it alters the way you think, meaning that it alters your perception to a certain extent which is all tied in with creativity and connected to every other aspect of a humans physical and mental state.

Here’s how it works: if your creativity is based on extreme irrational thoughts (like I’m doomed and no one loves me!) and the drugs force you to maintain a steady emotional state, then you will be incapable of getting inspired in the same way that you used to. Perhaps if you did some kind of art about how bland you felt it would be a different story.

If you notice, many rock songs are about extreme feeling of love, anger, isolation, marginalization, and so forth. One must be disturbed and in an extreme mood in order to write such a song. When you just get dumped by a girlfriend that you really, really loved it hurts and seems like the end of the world. You cry, get angry, and maybe even feel like killing someone. However, if you are on drugs that control your mood this might not happen. Perhaps, the drugs calm you to the point where you just can’t get angry or they hype you up and you can’t get sad.

Anyway, I noticed that the more I began to understand rational thinking the more my extreme youthful views went away. This resulted in less extreme moods. I no longer became outraged about things and that produced less artistic flights for me. I actually went through a several year long experience of loosing all artistic interest. This was just the result of learning to think in a new way and had nothing to do with drugs.

Hi embrace,

I have periodic depressions and have been prescribed pills that I don’t take. Why? I can’t answer that. Some good poetry has come out during the dark times, and I can work better when I’m down, mainly because partying is out of the question during these periods.

This might sound bonkers, but I think I have been at my happiest when I have been depressed. It’s like being in the front line somehow, my God it’s the ‘stiff upper lip’ that my father always talked about!

Cheers, freethinker

This only happens when you are on the drugs, when the drugs are in your bloodstream and working in your brain. You said that this effect is permanant. I have seen no evidence of this.

The drugs dont really increase seratonin(actually they officially dont know exactly how they work at all). It is “believed” that they stop reuptake of seratonin alowing for more of whats available to be used in the synapse. Thats why they are called selective seratonin reuptake inhibitors.

Alderian, I believe that you are correct. If your creativity is based on an extreme emotion and the drug gives you a “flatline” effect then you will find your creativity is hampered.

Just a quickie. Not to take away from the interesting points raised here, the latest thoughts on SSRIs is that this is a misnomer. That is, they do NOT inhibit the re-uptake of serotonin, but instead make the brain more sensitive to the serotonin that is released into postsynaptic neurons.

Also, embracetrees, I am glad that others are sharing their experiences with meds. Everyone is different. I am not one for over-prescribing meds for a whole host of reasons, most of which have been posted here, in other threads, and in the interesting link above. But I HAVE seen enough patients who HAVE benefitted from meds for various disorders–as long as they use the meds to stabilize themselves and then enter into good therapy (though I still contend that it is virtually impossible to treat most people with (real) schizophrenia–especially those with “positive” symptoms (e.g., delusions and hallucinations)–and most people with bipolar disorder “need” meds, at least until they’ve done some heavyduty therapy to help them deal with their manic states (though I HAVE treated a couple of people with BipolarI disorder who went off meds quickly into therapy).

How’s everything, Freethinker? You may have seen that I am not on the other site and I am now rarely on ILP.

pale, if you read my post, you will see it’s not written from a medical perspective (which, with formal training or without, i would never assume in a forum) but from a philosophical perspective. maybe a few “at the very most”'s are missing here and there, to illustrate the fact that im discussing possibility not fact. then again, it would have fucked up rhetorics. so…

I have “panic disorder”. Some people think they can identify and think that they have had a “panic attack” but really havent. What they have had is an extreme anxiety episode having to do with some event, some enagment or having to do with some phobia. A real, big panic attack comes out of the blue for seemingly no reason. Your entire nervous system is going haywire. Your heart is pounding, you feel dizzy, you have a sense of empending doom, you have many very unpleasant symptoms that are difficult to describe. Basically your nervous sytem is highly sensitized and the electrical workings of your nervous stystem is going nuts. Its pure terror along with very phsycial and voilent symptoms and senstations. My attacks would last for about 6 hours. the literature says that they last 5-15 minutes. The literature is full of shit. There is a difference in severity and type of anxiety attack, panic attacks and disorders. I think that many folks have an anxiety attack of anticipation and think thats a panic attack. Thats not a panic attack in the sense that I am talking about.

I had my first attacks after smoking marijuana. I soon quit when I realized that MJ= sure fire attack. In fact thats the only reason I didnt go to the emergency room the first time. I knew that MJ never killed anyone and sensed that my symptoms, though terribly unpleasant and violent, where benign. I quit smoking MJ and havent for years now but my panic attacks persisted.

I finally went to the doc 10 months later when the attacks persisted. He put me on Remeron to help me sleep (I was having insomnia) and clonopin to control the attacks. This worked beautifully. After 6 months I stopped all drugs and was panic free.

However I had a persistent depression and lethragy. I had this before I had my attacks as well. I finally went to the doc about this and he perscribed me zoloft. Remeber now I hadnt had an attack in 2 years. I took the zoloft and the next day I felt very manic. I slept for only 4 hours and woke with a nervous, manic energy. I figred I was just going to have to get thorugh this magical “2 week” side effect period then Id be fine. Well the next day I had a weird attack at the mall while leaving. IT was unlike a traditional panic attack. I felt as though I was going to pass out, and soon. I felt myself fading away several times and caught myself. I was TRYING to have a “traditional” attack, to get adrenealine and heart rate pumping because in this aroused state I know that you CANT pass out. I couldnt get my heart going fast nor my adreniline pumping. This was a weird near fainting “attack” with other symptoms of panic without the adreniline and heart palp symptoms.

The next day I STILL tried to stay on the zoloft and then had a more traditional panic attack like I used to have. After a week I threw that poison in the trash were it belonged. I went to the doc for depression and he gave me my old panic attacks back. Thats been 2 years ago and Ive bveen symptomatic with panic/anxiety disorder ever since. When I called the docs office about my reaction they acted like it wastn possible. Yet on the net there were the experiences of many others who had the same thing happen to them. I have since talked to hundred of folks in person and on the net who have had the same reaction to zoloft and other SSRIs.

Docs are so in love with these drugs that they arent apt to recognize our complaints as side effects and severe reaction. They LOVE these drugs. If SSRIs were a woman theyd fuck the shit out of her. I dont understand it.

They think they are the pancea for all ill and perscribe them for things ranging from headaches to hangnail.s

Some folks have terrible reactions to these drugs and tell their docs. Their docs think that its the “underlying condition” and jack up the doses even more, causing more harm. They are so in love with SSRI they cant POSSIBLY imagine that some people respond very poorely and negatively to them.

All MOST psychiatrist today are just drug pushers. You go ot them and describe symtpoms and they try you on drug after drug until you get one that doesnt make you feel like total shit. They label you with as many “disoders” as humanly possible and they push the drugs that the drug reps push on them. Psychiatrist dont do therapy anymore. They sell drugs. Psychologists sell therapy. They either work in tandem with psychiatrists or they are ant-psychiatry and simply push their therapy. Everyones gfot an angle. Hardly anyone has the patients best interest at heart. Its way out of control.

The benzodiazapines (xanax, valium, clonopin, Ativan) are the most sucessfull drugs for panic disorder. In a high enough dose they WILL stop a panic attack. But those drugs are old and generic and not a good money maker for the companies anymore. So the drug companies smear the name of the benzo’s and push the new SSRI which are generally way to stimulating and side effect prone for the senstivie nervous systems of people with panic disorder. Its ALL about money. Its pathetic.

Did you know that it takes about two weeks for SSRIs to do anything? It even takes a few days for people that get sick from them to get sick. Taking one should do nothing at all. I suspect that your mind was secretly telling you not to take them.

Man there is so much false information about this stuff. Sorry Alderian but that is simply patently untrue. You often dont get the anti-depressant effect for 2-6 weeks or even a couple of months sometimes. Some people do see an anti-depressant effect in a few days though. You can and often will FEEL something right away. The side effects start right away. If your going to see sexual side effects yull see them (difficulty in reaching orgasm) right away. If they are going to make you jittery or nervous youll see that right away.

Why do you think there is a “2 week side effect” period? The side effects start right away sometimes they subside after 2 weeks. Sometimes they dont and cant be tolerated at all.

I have taken remeron, xanax, clonopin, valium, st. johns wart, kava kava, 5htp, Sam-e and had no such side effects.

On the zoloft If anything I was expecting a positive placebo. I wasnt nervous or aphrehensive at all taking it. I was looking forward to its positive effects and went about my usual busniess with not a care in the world.

This SSRI drug was the only drug I had these effects on. This was NOT placebo. A simple net search will lead to many other people with the same experience.

I have been working in psychology for sixteen years and have not heard of a person reacting after one pill. The Psychotherapist’s Guide To Psychopharmacology by Gitlin and the 2002 Drug Hand Book both indicate that SSRIs take a minimum of one week to do much of anything. Gitlin’s book indicates that reactions after less than three days are thought to be due to placebo.

Personally, I have had clients tell me that they feel better after less that 24 hours. This is due to hope. I usually tell them that this is and idication of the power of their own psychology.

Sometimes we are the last to know what we think about things. Perhaps you were agreeing to take the meds but really didn’t want to take them. I know that I would have an anxiety attack just holding psychoactive medication in my hand! I think that the stuff is scary.

Hi Alderain. I dont mean to be rude but you are not correct, 16 years, 37 years or an infinite amount of years education or not. This sounds condescending but it is the equivilant of saying “you cant get pregnant the first time” so I must reposnd with what I know. One can and WILL experience side effects within the FIRST dose of SSRI’s. They simply can and often times will. These meds are the chemcials cousins of LSD. Yo DO feel LSD in its first dose. SSRIs affect chemcial targets in a less dramatic way but one can still feel effect and side effect after the forst dose.

If you are going to experience sexual side effects from zoloft (such as delayed or difficulty in achieving ejaculation) you will experience it within the first dose. Thats why it is called the “first 2 weeks” side effect period. Same with increaed anxiety, insomnia, mania and all of those things. The literature doesnt say “2 weeks side effescts that dont appear until 3 or 4 days into treatment”. They say “side effects that often persist up to 2 weeks or longer” meaning side effects start very quickly. Even that information is incorrect as often times the side effects never stop and have to be disocintinured. Mahy of this is in litigation as we speak. Folks have complained of suicidal ideation due to this stuff for about a decade now and its just now getting attention.

Professionals DO chalk this up as “placebo”. Its typical of a mental health field that is unwilling to listen to its patients, only thier Gods, the drug companies. Its pathetic. Ill return soon with info to proive my claims.

Yes, well I’m against the meds as well. However, from what I know about them it seems unlikely that one dose of that stuff is going to do anything.

I have had many anxious clients that think simple things like medicated cough drops have caused them to get high, for instance. Anxious people dream up all kinds of things.

On the flip side, I know a guy that is so allergic to fish that if a fish was in the area and he touches some of its oil he will blow up like a balloon. So, anything is possible.

I have just never seen what you are talking about. I have seen people say that one pill took their depression away, and I know that’s not real. Please post more about it.

The bottom line though is that this stuff is not an answer to anything and I’m sure does make a lot of people nervous when taking it.


I’m sorry to see your bad experiences with the psychological and psychiatric community. I understand a lot of your reservations and contempt for many of the people involved. I just wanted to add a few points:

  1. I know you mentioned that your panic attacks are far different from those that last 5-10 minutes, or those that are preceded by much worry. You seem well-versed on these subjects, so you are probably aware that you are right to say the latter attacks do not constitute panic DISORDER (where the attacks must come “out of the blue,” though they CAN eventually follow internal or external cues (since this usually happens via conditioning), as long as the original attacks were “out of the blue”), but they ARE panic attacks. They may be different from your experiences, but that does not make them any less real or frightening to the sufferers.

  2. I worked with one team of psychiatrists/psychologists involved in developing a book that discussed the numerous ways to properly treat the various anxiety disorders via meds and psychotherapies. From what I saw, the negative effects of benzos warrants their status as NOT the preferred med for anxiety disorders.

  3. Again, I understand your frustration with the psychiatric/psychological community, but please be wary of generalizations. I’ve often written about the need for GOOD treatment, which is often psychotherapy but which sometimes requires meds as well (only meds is NOT good, IMO). Among my colleagues, it is extremely rare to see a psychologist who is currently totally anti-meds. I do NOT want to get into a stupid cock fight (and take awasy from the intent of this thread) with the psychotherapist in this thread who IS totally anti-med, but in my experiences, his views are antiquated and NOT shared by most psychologists, at least in Canada. Of course, I can’t speak for the thousands and thousands of unregistered psychoterhapists such as he, but again, most of my colleagues understand the need for meds (in some cases) in conjunction with GOOD therapy (though, as you may have experienced, GOOD therapy is unfortunately not that common among ANY mental health practitioner, and as the psychotherapist in this thread has demonstrated, too many people in the field know less about meds than their patients/clients, yet act as if they have absolute knowledge on the topic, and many clients will actually defer to such “professionals”).

Bottom line, extreme positions on any side of an issue should be avoided whenever possible…But sharing experiences such as you and others have done here is a great service, as long as others recognize that each person is different and no single experience (or no individual) can tell the whole story…I might have written before that I was at this conference where a psychiatrist I once worked with was touting the advantages of treating unipolar depression with Risperidol. I had a group right after the meeting and asked them about this. They all told me of BAD experiences they had had on the drug–quite a different tale…

Anyway, I hope you (and others) will continue to post any other new information you may come across (or experiences you’ve had), as I know how important it is to keep on top of these things from VARIOUS sources, namely the people who are taking these meds, especially since I’m the first to admit that my patients seem to have the better line on many meds than I do… :blush:

More input from someone most likely on meds.

Of course they don’t. People with mental illnesses often abuse substances because they are trying to “self medicate”. It is because, for a variety of causes from enviromental to genetic to physical trauma,etc., they suffer from a mental illness and they are trying to treat it themselves. It ranges from chocolate to caffeine to pot to booze… people use these things like antidepressants.Any illness must be properly diagnosed and treated by a qualified professional…and like physical illnesses, the same treatment may not work or be appropriate for every person.

You are a young woman,and you have these bastard hormones from maturation which can make you feel bloody awful.Being a teenager is really difficult as well.Not yet an adult,but “not a child anymore”, expectations and responsibilities far outweigh the rights given to you, and you face blatent discrimination every day.

Add the propensity to develop a depressive illness to this brew, and bing,bang,boom, a severely depressed teenager. Trust me, life gets way better when you are over 18 in so many ways…so keep on trucking. Antidepressants work, that’s why they are prescribed; however, if you feel that you might have been misdiagnosed, get a second opinion from another Psychiatrist. You should see a Psychiatrist/MD and a Psychologist, or a therapist, or be in some sort of group therapy, if you aren’t already.

We’ve accepted advances in other areas of medicine, yet Psychiatry is still so mistrusted.

You were sick, and now you are well. Your true self is allowed to shine because you are no longer living under the cloud of severe depression.

You are a smart and lovely woman with an excellent social conscience. Not to mention that you are very pretty…it isn’t everything, but it is certainly a fortunate circumstance for you. It will make your life easier, because people instinctually respond more favorably to attractive people.

People who are delusional don’t usually ask if they are delusional, so don’t get all worried about it. But hey, if something makes your life better, may as well stick with it.
:smiley: :smiley:

Don’t worry,…talent always comes back. In the meantime, there’s tons of cool stuff you can do… learn how to fly a plane…take up tap-dancing…get a part-time job at a funky clothing store… grow bonsai…read “Nausea”…learn orgami…dye your hair pink…

Party-type excitement is overrated. Climbing a mountain,writing a poem, caring for a pet,etc. are much more rewarding forms of excitement. For adreneline rushes,go to an amusement park.

Make sure you still have fun every now and then…don’t fall into the trap of putting everybody else first. You need time for you, doing what you enjoy, in order to have the strength to be giving to others.

Remember this enlarged part of your post. Your emotions are not fake, they are just sane and stable now. The “fakes” were the emotions that gave you the desire to engage in self-destructive behaviour.

It’s not too hard to take a pill or two considering the benefits.

Wheel chairs and polio vaccines aren’t natural,either. Nor is opening up someone’s body to remove a tumour…but science has allowed us to extend and improve our lives and health. It is not only okay but the only logical choice to seek treatment for illness. You are a smart and brave lady.

I wish you every possible happiness :slight_smile:

Big Hug :smiley:

If you want to be happy, than just go be happy. Nobody is stopping you, don’t let yourself stop yourself either. Pretty much everyone is depressed, because we can’t see the reasons for us to be happy. Honestly, i don’t see any reason anywhere for us to be happy or sad, but at least you could get like a… pet koala or something instead of pills your doctor said you needed. AND PET KOALAS ARE FIGGIN SWEET! Screw the rest man, you don’t need drugs to give you a reason to live, you just need to decide that you really want to (and if you’re searching for a reason in which to live, you’re obviously just saying you want to live but you just want a reason). You could let that want to live be that reason? you don’t control your wants, but you can control the way in which you satisfy them. If you want pills, go for it. I’m going to get a friggin pet koala, and then put it in a office building or something. Ah, our sensations and guilty pleasures…