a philosophical problem

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
1

I have over the years, laid out various philosophical problems
we “modern” have faced…not answered but faced…

this is the next problem we face… connection…

if there was one trait that all, ALL human beings have it is this,
we seek connection to people, places, things…

we seek to connect to “whatever” it is we try to connect to…

many seek and find connection within family… for that is the first
place we often find connection within… then because of our
indoctrinations, we find connections within more abstract things…

the state, religion and other ism’s…

I am a huge sport fan, I will watch all kinds of sports…
anything from baseball to football to golf to track and field
and just about any sport, (not car racing… that is truly boring)
but I love the Olympics, winter or summer, doesn’t matter to me…
but I love watching obscure sports like curling and bobsleigh in the winter
Olympics and just about anything in the summer Olympics…

sports is one way I can feel a connection as is religion
is another way to feel a connection as is ART or literature or
any activity that we can do… we can feel a connection by reading
or watching TV… the important thing is that we are human beings
and what we do as human beings is try to feel a connection to something…

those who worship IQ45 do so because they feel a connection to him…

all religions exists because they create connections within us…

if there was one thing that existed for all human beings, I would
say it was this need for a connection from us to something else…

let us look at some people… they have rejected the last election as being
fraudulent and “stolen” and they believe there is some sort of “deep state”
that has and is committing crimes… and these people distrust the government
and distrust vaccines and distrust society in general… so I ask you, what
are they connected to? there point of connection is via there vast and multitudes
of conspiracies…they have a conspiracy for everything…the moon landing was
fake, there is some vast conspiracy to rule the world… among the favorite
targets of these conspiracy theories is the “trilateral commission” the “Jews”
the “illuminati” the 9/11 conspiracy, sandy hook conspiracy, and the whole body
of work involving the Clintons or George Soros or both together…

the need for these conspiracy is still a basic one, the need to connect…
and their point of connection is within insane and unprovable conspiracy
theories… that cannot ever be proven or have any evidence for…
and that is the beauty of conspiracy theories… they exists outside of
facts or evidence… they are unprovable… and that is the point…
the conspiracy theory connects one to a theory of existence…

we live in a universe full of conspiracies… and that connects people
to the world…it doesn’t matter that those who hold conspiracy theories
exists outside of the normal… they connect by existing outside of the normal…
outside of those they consider to be “sheep” who listen to “corrupting” or “fake”
influences like CNN or MSNBC or the regular media… they have disdain for
people who do not hold their conspiracy theories… that is their connection…
they are “above” us…

so, we all, ALL seek some sort of connection…
that is the connection we human beings seek…
the connection itself… for others, for religions,
for the love of ISM’S and ideologies… we hope to find ourselves
connected to some ism or ideology like conspiracy theories or
communism or capitalism or catholicism or hinduism…or whatever
ism one finds oneself in…

but I hold a radical belief… until we hold a connection to each other, we
shall be seeking and searching… for what lies right in front of us…
I can go outside of my marriage and seek a connection to another, but
the fact is, the fact is that which is right before me, that connection I hold
to my wife is enough… I just need to hold that fact to be true… and I am saved…

we quite often seek something that is outside of us and ignore that which is right in front of us
because we don’t have enough faith in that which lies right in front of us…

trust in yourself that you already hold the keys to the kingdom and ye
shall not seek anymore…the connections you seek are already deep inside
of you or better yet, right in front of you… you just have to open your eyes and
see…the connections of the human experience is already right in front of us…

even that most alone of us has that connection before us… you just have to
open your eyes and see… even someone as lonely as Nietzsche still had
the connection before him, he just didn’t have the vision to see…

that connection I refer to is the connection of every single human being
has with another… even if that connection feels invisible or non-existent…
it is there…even here with people I have never seen and couldn’t pick out
of a police lineup, you and I, both have connections to… why?
because we are human beings and that is a deep enough connection
to overcome all our loneliness… you just have to take a chance and attempt
to connect… even if no one seems to be out there…

so the philosophical problem is this…
do you have the courage to believe that you are part of something,
something very deep and profound… we call it the human race…
do you have the courage to believe in being part of the human race?

if so, you have found a deep connection… if not, you are alone…

what is your choice in this philosophical problem?

Kropotkin

2

a connected problem is that this society, out culture has lost its identity…
we have lost that connection, of our connection to the larger
signifiers of nationality, religions, isms like communism and
nationalism…in other words, when ask, who are you?

one might say American but that doesn’t really mean anything…
to proclaim oneself as American, it no longer represents anything…

what does it mean to be an American? The left believes that we cannot
hold to be "American’s because we have lost that which at one time,
meant to be an “American” for example, to be an American means to
hold to higher values of freedom of expression, to hold that certain values
meant something… for example, an “American” wouldn’t believe in or support
acts like torturing someone for information… whereas today, millions of people
do believe in the act of torture…and that very act negates the higher values
of what it means to be an American…or to put children into concentration camps…
that action devalues, negates what it means to be an American…

when I say, I am an American, I cannot in good conscience agree to
the torture of people in my country defense or to put innocent children
into concentration camps… it devalues my own belief into what makes
an American…I cannot accept being an American that holds to the values
of torture or to holding children into concentration camps…
so what does being a American mean now?

and on the right, they hold certain values that does allow the
right of the state to torture and hold children in concentration
camps…how does that make them into Americans?

by holding to the value of “America first”… regardless of whatever
else is happening… and yet, this belief of “American first”, to one on
the left anyway, negates anyone who is not an American…

so to the right, if you don’t hold to the value, “American first” you
are not an “real American”…

one often hears of the voices on the right, declaring that “others”
who don’t hold certain values, are not “real Americans”…

so we have lost our identity of who is an “American”…

and we are no longer connected to each other if we hold beliefs
that devalue or negate “others”…

we on the left holds that anyone can be an American whereas on the right,
that are clear and present boundaries to being an American… you have to fulfill
certain requirements to be an “American”…

those certain boundaries disconnect us, Americans from others…

the left doesn’t hold such strict and certain boundaries that the right do…

it is enough for someone on the left that to be an “American”
one only needs to be alive and here… whereas that isn’t true on the right…where
you must hold certain, absolute values to be considered to be an “American”…

this split as to something as basic as to what it means to be an “American”
signifies the lost identity of being an American, that has been lost…

if we cannot even agree upon what it means to be an “American”
then we have lost our identity… how do we make that connection again?

that is this philosophical problem… we have lost our identity as to what
it means to be an “American”… how do we regain it?

Kropotkin

3

it has been said that America is in crisis…
and the various reasons are given that lead us to
believe that America is in crisis…

but I have another thought…

perhaps, perhaps we are in crisis because we are fixed upon the
crisis point of the “banality of existence”…

or to say another way, we are in crisis because we cannot
escape or find another way out of the “banality of existence”

we find ourselves in a hamster wheel… going around and around
with ever increasing speed but going nowhere…

the crisis is we must escape this hamster wheel without
destroying the world… how to do the impossible?

we are trapped into this “banality of existence” that holds us captive
and doesn’t allow us any means of escape outside of death…

one answer, the Marxist answer is to escape into the hamster wheel
and become part of history… and that is the exact same answer
given by capitalism… the only escape is to go faster on the
hamster wheel… to create more, to produce more, to consume more…
that path leads us nowhere but at an ever increasing speed to nowhere…

the only possible answer to escape the “banality of existence”
the hamster wheel of existence is for each of us to escape separate
individually… not as a large group, for that will cause the system to
collapse, but to separate individually…one by one by one…
and each person who escapes, slowly, slowly brings the system
of capitalism to an end… the hamster wheel slowly fades away…
and is replaced by a new system that doesn’t trap us into
an ongoing system that systematically destroys us physically,
emotionally, psychologically, mentally and socially…

both the capitalist and communistic system only means of survival is
by systematically destroying its members…we are destroyed in the
name of the system… as food for the system to sustain itself…
the true Soylent Green is how we cannibalize human beings to feed
the ever present system of capitalism…

how do we escape being sacrificed by the systems… not for our good,
but for the system’s good? we are simply pawns in our ism’s and ideologies…

the religious is no different… we are pawns for god to destroy us in
the name of some vast, grand plan to bring about the redemption of
the people, but at the same time destroys those same people…
in the name of the lord…

and what is the highest “honor” one can receive? that is as a member
of the Arm forces in which we are to sacrifice ourselves for the
greater glory of our country…again, the highest higher is to
lay down one’s life in the name of an abstract vision of a country…

it is nothing different then the call of capitalism or the call of communism…

to sacrifice oneself, and be a willing participant in that sacrifice to
benefit one’s country…that is the highest goal we can achieve
and the one we mustn’t make… we can no longer feed the beast
in some vain effort to benefit the country where we need to
engage in own our personal achievement of who we are…

and we can achieve the union of one’s country and one own personal
understanding if we truly understand the relationship between
an individual and the society, the state… what is the correct
relationship between the state and the individuals living within
that state? what does society own to us and what do we owe to it?

and until we find that equation, that relationship, we are going to
have extreme difficulties as a country, because we do not
have the correct equation between individuals and the country…

that is the real crisis in America… what is the exact relationship between
the many and the one… a question that has plagued philosophers since
Kierkegaard and Stirner…so what is the relationship between us, as individuals
and the state?

answer this and we move greatly beyond the crisis of our times…

Kropotkin

4

So all conspiracy is myth and non- provable.

Huge pidgeon hole fallacy there.

5

K: so name a conspiracy theory that isn’t myth and is true?

Kropotkin

6

peter conspiracy-type thinking is the stuff of idiots. its the surface upon which brainwashing it laid. theres some real epistemological shit that a large portion of the human population does not have the aptitude to comprehend. these people for real believe a lot of crazy shit.

7

The JFK assassination gave birth to numerous conspiracies, even the Warren Report was deemed conspiratorial to cover the fact of the 'two shooter ’ evidence.

The Mafia, J Edgar Hoover, Cuban dictator Castro, even ex president Lyndon Johnson were implicated.

Since the 'real truth has never became widely accepted, most of them could be considered to satisfy Your given criteria.

8

K: it isn’t the conspiracy theory per se I am after, it is the mentally of why,
why does one believe in conspiracy theories? I hold that people use
conspiracy theories to connect their place in the world… you place
yourself in the universe if you can figure out your place within a
conspiracy theory…conspiracy theories are always, always about
someone else… never about who you are… I want people to focus
on who they are… not on the famous “others” but on who they are…

I don’t hold conspiracy theories because I not only see the “I”
but I can see the “WE”… and that ability prevents me from
holding onto conspiracy theories…conspiracy theories are very
much about what others are doing, never about what I am doing…

and it is used to avoid having to think about the Kantian questions,
“what am I to do?” “what should I believe in?” “what can I know?”
it doesn’t take any real thought to engage in conspiracy theories…
they actually work better if you don’t think about it, if you don’t
attempt to find out the truth about them…for when a conspiracy theory
is found to be true or false, it is no longer a conspiracy theory… it becomes
fact…and a fact no longer holds a person to some place in the universe…

a fact: the earth is 93 million miles from the sun…ok,
that fact doesn’t actually tell us anything about our “human”
place in the universe…for a fact to have meaning, it must have
some sort of context and any context destroys a conspiracy theory…

Kropotkin

9

Peter Kropotkin"]the need for these conspiracy is still a basic one, the need to connect…
and their point of connection is within insane and unprovable conspiracy
theories… that cannot ever be proven or have any evidence for…
and that is the beauty of conspiracy theories… they exists outside of
facts or evidence… they are unprovable… and that is the point…
the conspiracy theory connects one to a theory of existence"

D: So all conspiracy is myth and non- provable.

Huge pidgeon hole fallacy there.
[/quote]
K: so name a conspiracy theory that isn’t myth and is true?

M: The JFK assassination gave birth to numerous conspiracies, even the Warren Report was deemed conspiratorial to cover the fact of the 'two shooter ’ evidence.

The Mafia, J Edgar Hoover, Cuban dictator Castro, even ex president Lyndon Johnson were implicated.

Since the 'real truth has never became widely accepted, most of them could be considered to satisfy Your given criteria.
[/quote]
K: ok, where is the “truth” within the JFK assassination?
who actually shot JFK and most importantly, why? what is myth and what is fact?

that there are myths and and there are facts…show me a fact about JFK assassination?
you might say Oswald shot JFK… but did he? I am one of the few around here
who was actually alive that day… and I cannot tell you the “truth” of what happened…

so what is provable in the assassination of JFK?

Kropotkin

10

Aliens on earth.

11

You may be one of those people that want me to shoot and alien then bring you the dead body and give you the chance to examine it.
Once you examine it, it could be an illusion / psychosis. You dreamed it. or it was photo shop. or CGI, if someone got a pic.
That’s not realistic.

Truth doesn’t come from capatalism itself.
You can’t buy the truth.
It’s not something that you can just demand from others.

12

K: now that depends upon who you ask…I do believe in UFO’S but not as
a conspiracy theory… I saw a UFO once while living in Florida… but that
belief doesn’t require any sort of conspiracy theory… but notice that
the X-Files for example, turned the UFO’S and aliens into a conspiracy theory…
while that my event was 50 years ago, I can hold onto it as an experience…
I experienced a UFO…I don’t need to turn it into myth or a religious event
or some sort of conspiracy theory… it happened…

to say that aliens are in communication with the governments of earth and
demand material goods like gold or water or human beings, now we are talking
about aliens as conspiracy theory’s…as myth…

it depends upon how we relate the material we face that can turn it into
a conspiracy theory or a simple event…thing can happen that don’t have
to become conspiracy theories… things happen…that life in the big city…

did man walk on the moon? yes, but it doesn’t have to become a conspiracy
theory…is the world round? yes, that doesn’t have to become a conspiracy theory…
was JFK shot? yes, that may or may not become a conspiracy theory… depending on
who you ask…

Kropotkin

13

the Buddha felt that we all, all of us, face one insurmountable
problem, that of suffering… the Buddha saw our suffering
in the guise of three stages of life… disease, old age and death…

to escape this suffering, we must overcome and reduce ourselves
to no longer having an “ego”… it is ego that forces us to
relive life over and over and over again…to rejoin the vast
one that is the universe…that is the ultimate goal of existence…

but the Buddha failed to see what was really happening…

think about it… what is disease, old age and death…

events which we do not suffer from at this point in time…

for example, I am not suffering from disease right now,
I am not suffering from death right now, I am old but I don’t see that
part of suffering… it is what it is…

but those forms of suffering, old age, death, disease…

they exists in the future… not now… at least for me…

what do we really see when we think about the suffering in the future?

why, that is time…in time, at some point in the future, we shall
be engaged in suffering, old age, disease and finally death…
it isn’t the engagement with suffering that the Buddha talks about,
it is time…at some future time, we shall be suffering…

suffering comes from the engagement we have with time…
for in time, we shall grow old, have disease and then die…

the Buddha argument is with time… we suffer from time acting
upon us… we grow old in time, we suffer disease in time,
and in time, we die…

how does one “cure” time?

we cannot… for time doesn’t have a cure…it simply exists,
just as we exists… does time have a “meaning?”

not that I can tell…

we human beings, we exists within time… we are born, live and die in time…

think about it… say for example, you simple go into a room…
you don’t interact with anyone… nothing happens in that room…
you sit there quietly and do nothing for your entire life…

does that mean you will not “suffer” from old age, disease or death?

nope… you cannot escape old age, you cannot escape disease and you
cannot, under any circumstances, escape death…

so what is time? it is being… everything resides in time…it is the one
constant in the universe… for time exists for everything in the universe…

now one might suggest that time and space are the same thing…

I have a thought… I am thinking about turkey… tomorrow is
thanksgiving… so I am thinking about turkey… does that thought
of turkey exists in space? I don’t see how… what space does a thought occur
in? but a thought does happen in time…I can hold a thought in time,
but not in space…a thought is simply a chemical reaction in the brain…
but I certainly can’t point out where in my brain that thought occurred in…

but I can see where in time my thought occurred in…

thinking occurs in time, but not in space…

one might say, draw a line on a piece of paper and that line has space,
but not time…that line is a universal and stands for all lines ever produced…

but is it a universal? I don’t think so… a line only exists as a line in time,
not in space…because a line drawn on a piece of paper only last as long
as that piece of paper last…and no more…a universal will last forever…
but what lasts forever? nothing that I can see…

even time… our current theory is that at one point in time, roughly 14 billion
years ago, time was created in the “Big Bang”…and if time is created, then
it can also end…and one might say, we can draw a line at the beginning of time
and that line will represent all lines from the beginning of time to the end of time…

but the point is, that line can only be understood in the light of being in someone’s mind…

a line is only a line because our brains have interpreted that way… try to think of a line
that exists outside of our mind…that line can only exists because our minds has
created it… and that creation is done in time, not space…for we think in time
and not in space…

so what is being? it is time…

and so what if I am wrong? that argument will happen in time, not in space…
for how can we say that we are holding an argument in space… where in space
would we be holding that argument? but we can say, we are holding that argument in time…

so the fundamental property of existence isn’t space, it is time…
time is being and time is the fundamental property of existence…

so I have listed out that problem… what is the problem of time and space?

Kropotkin

14

and one might ask, what about god?

that is an issue within time, not space…

for what space does god exists within?

where would I go to look for god?

but I can find god within time…

Kropotkin

15

Peter, or , without.

16

K: I freely admit, I have no idea what you are saying…

Kropotkin

17

Ok. Imminence is both , as far as god is cincernrd, it is neither here or there, since space and time are relative; there OS conversion

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics

In particular - space-time

Peter , an imminent god, inside or outside , can adhere to the convertibility, or shift between that imminence outside the space of relative time. That is what I meant to say.

18

who… what… when… where… how… why…

all the questions of the universe fall into 6 categories…

all the mythmaking and stories that fill our lives… fall into 6 questions
of existence…every single question of existence can be engaged in those
6 questions…

who am I? who are you? who are we?

what am I? what are we? what is the point?

When will I be redeemed? When will I die?

where is God? where do I go from here?

How do I find meaning? How did existence begin?

Why are we? why do we die? why can’t I live forever?

all the words and all the songs and all the poems and all the paintings…
all of them, revolve around these 6 questions…

all the ism’s and all the ideologies… from capitalism to communism
to Catholicism to Hinduism… begin with those 6 little questions…

and all the disciplines… history, economics, political science, philosophy,
science, data processing… anthropology… all of it… have at their core,
just 6 questions…

all the novels and all the textbooks and all the plays ever written have at their basis,
just 6 questions…

all of human existence has but 6 questions…

so, is there a 7 question?

Kropotkin

19

There are a number of what were considered conspiracy theories that turned out to be true. Now, of course they are not considered CTs.
WOMD propaganda and other lies to create Gulf WAR 2.
Illegal wire tapping and infiltration of left wing and civil rights groups. Cointelpro.
Mind control experiments.
False flag start to the Vietnam war.
Government surveillance of nearly all communication. This was denied, considered a CT, then basically demonstrated by Snowdon.

You are basically make an unfalsifiable claim
Obviously there are conspiracies.
So, your asserting that if a conspiracy happened it would be generally accepted as having happened. That CANNOT be falsified.

Shit, the Holocaust was a conspiracy theory, in Germany and outside, until it was demonstrated.

Some conspiracies have likely not been demonstrated yet.

Your position can be summed up as

any real conspiracy is something one could prove to others happened.

That is unfalsifiable.

Some conspiracy theories that turned out to be true:

20

we moderns, we live and breath fractured, incomplete lives…

but look at ART… it is complete and whole… a novel, a poem,
a statue… each of them… complete and whole…

perhaps that is why today’s ART is fracture, incomplete…

because we moderns have fractured lives, we cannot see the wholeness
of ART… hence ART has lost its hold on our lives…

we lead damaged, broken, divided lives and so we can no longer see what
the completeness of existence is…

take two novels… Hemingway “the old man and the sea” and
Goethe’s “Faust”… both tell a story… but “Faust” is complete
and whole… it tells a complete story with a beginning, middle and end…
now take “the old man and the sea”… a story I love by the way…
what is the story of “The old man and the sea”?

It is a small story of one trip an old man takes going out to sea…
it is a small story that takes a couple of days to complete…it tells us
a story about one experience in a lifetime of fishing for Santiago…

Faust tells us a story that has a lots of characters and action
and heroine’s… it is a complete story about who this person, Faust,
is and where he came from and where he is going…

but the “old man” doesn’t do that… it is one experience in one life…
it doesn’t revel the past or future, it is a fracture story of one person…

Goethe or anyone in the 16th or 17th or 18the or 19th century couldn’t have written
“the old man and the sea”… it could have only been written in the 20th century
because those are the only stories we can tell in this fractured and incomplete age…

our ART, literature, statues and poems can only reflect who we are today…
and who we are is best represented by stories that are about experiences,
fractured and incomplete…

how do we make our lives whole, complete, integrated?

I look at my life and I don’t see a integrated, unified life…

I see a disjointed, jumbled, divided life

I see an atomistic life… fractured, disjointed, unconnected…

and I see society being fracture, full of atomistic individuals, isolated
and alone… how do we heal an atomistic society like ours?

we begin by healing as individual atoms… and with each atom joining to
another atom to another to another…one atom at a time, we can
lead lives that is no longer fractured, disjointed, unconnected…atomistic…

but that means we must heal and heal we can, by joining a agreed upon goal
or having an agreed upon meaning or explanation of what it means to be human…

if we ask 100 people what is the meaning of or the point of life, we will get 100 or more,
different answers… and until we can get some sort of agreement on this basic fundamental
answer, we can never begin to heal, individually or collectively…

what does it mean to be human? does being human mean we seek the baubles of
existence like fame, money, power, titles? or does being human mean we seek something
far more substantial and meaningful…that the point of existence is to go from
animal to animal/human to becoming fully human… we exists at the stage between
being animal and being animal/human… if we are concerned about the basic necessities
of existence, food, water, shelter, education, health care, then we are existing
in the lower level of existence, the basic animal level of existence…

but we are human and to be human means to seek the higher levels of existence,
seeking love, safety/security, self esteem, and finally reaching the highest level,
so far, of reaching the self-fulfillment level of existence… where we seek and gain
what is possible for to reach and achieve…we seek and examine our potential for
being human…

and to return to my original point, the ART before the 20th century, was about
seeking what is possible for us…

whereas the ART of the 20th century has been about the fracture and incomplete
nature of our current existence…

ART can tell us what is possible for us… and we can see some possibilities
for who we can be in ART… but only if ART is about showing us more then a incomplete
and fracture picture of what it means to live in 2020…

you want to save the world, begin with ART and showing us more
then a fracture and incomplete picture of being human…

If I want to see what is possible for me? I must engage with ART…

Kropotkin