I’m just curious if Age found a method that I haven’t already tried or haven’t even thought of, even if the likelihood of Age actually being onto something is almost zero. People who live in unusual states of mind can sometimes discover things that others can’t, and Age is very unusual.
My sense is that he has come up with a different way of arriving at states that some traditions also can lead you to. It may fit his style of cognition more than most people - the literalness, precise definitions - but I can see it working, and it does bear some resemblance to psychosynthesis, in an odd way Koans, and it is a form of contemplation. And I accept at face value that he feels a lot better than he did before he went through the process. I do think he wants to help, though I think other things are happening along with that urge.
If you look at that orginal Ken post, where he lays out his project, he makes a number of rhetorical gestures of humility. For example, I am a very simple and slow person. And: I may be a very simple person…
While in the same post saying he has solved all the problems of life, he knows why everyone acts like they do, he knows how we can all achieve peace and harmony.
Persona and shadow all right out in the open.
He can’t understand why people find him annoying, condescending, not to have an open mind, and ironically in the cult thread, showing a LOT of characteristics of cult communication.
Now that is for sure.
But please do not forget that what you are wanting and trying to win here is very, very different from what I am meaning and referring to when I see and use the term ‘it’s win win’.
Openness, honesty, curiosity, a serious willingness to change yourself.
Do you have a formula?
No. What would have led you to presume such a thing?
No.
First - If I recall correctly, I have only written in maybe three or four threads in this forum.
Second - I do not recall ever even saying and meaning, “You only assume my positions”.
Why are you presuming that that is what I have been implying and meaning?
Are you saying that you have observed, concluded, and confirmed that “sophistry” and “demagogy” are my “main game theme”?
Either way, what do you mean by “sophistry”, “demagogy”, and “my main game theme”, exactly?
LOL What a joke.
- No one has ever previously asked. Notice when one did, then the answer was revealed.
- I have expressed and revealed the answer countless times. You, once more, just do not listen and so are not able to hear and comprehend. Part of the reason you don’t listen is that you are too busy theorising.
By the way, who exactly is the “we” that you are referring to?
Not that we will get an answer.
So, in your previous post, you claim that i NEVER reveal the formula, yet here you are revealing my formula, word for word, and exactly.
From being Honest, Open, having a serious Want to learn how you can change, for the better, then you will comprehend and understand how the Mind and the brain work, which, in turn, leads to the True, Right, Accurate, and Correct answers in Life being able to revealed, to you.
What is True and Right, in comparison to what is true and right, is what is irrefutable. Thus, everyone could agree with and accept It. The process I use is distinguishing between what everyone, as One, knows, relative to what someone knows, but which not everyone could agree with it and accept it.
Thank you for seeking out and asking for clarification. It something very, very rare from you. It is very refreshing to observe and see come from you.
But, if you had asked without all of that blatant sarcasm and condescension, behind your words, and has asked from a Truly open, clarifying position only, then you would come across as a far more genuine human being.
Well, again, I doubt he’s going to explain your coming experiences and the set of truths. And actually, that’s reasonable. These things need to be experienced. And ironically his method may in fact work, in a certain sense. But it’s not a path I want to follow. Ken Wilbur has written, also (this is a new issue) where people can become incredible meditators, but never deal with certain kinds of interpersonal expertise or awareness and other types of lacking procedural knowledge. That pattern I had seen a number of times, but I found it interesting the way he broke it down. So, while enlightened in a sense, they still have serious problems that they cannot really see and which need other approaches to get at.
Anyway, whether he is right or wrong in his interpretation of this state, doesn’t really matter to me because it’s an old path in new form and not one for me.
Some key terms: weak central coherence, Alexithymia, asymmetric expectations of proof.
I’ve been thinking that one of the main problems is that in a sense he has come to teach and people here are either seeking to disagree or discuss.
So, he enters a thread like this one, tries to get everyone to challenge all of their assumptions. And if they justify anything, he will find assumptions in that. He’s already started the process of trying to dismantle assumptions without realizing it’s like walking on a tennis court to teach people French mid-match. What he’s doing looks a bit like what they are doing, so the overriding problem doesn’t get noticed.
Noticed or not these are entirely different processes. From his end I am sure he thinks he comes bearing gifts and means well, so any resistance or irritation can only be the fault of the humans and not ‘him.’ But, you’d think someone coming bearing the potential for peace and harmony would have noticed that he creates even less of that than people who come to fight. Note: I am not assuming at all he knows a good way to teach French, but I think it’s useful to know he is not coming to play tennis.
These following three assertions (the first in two forms) do not sit well together.
He is infallible about what is True and Real/He has a formula that guarantees he’s right
He neither believes nor disbelieves anything
He will change his mind if shown he’s wrong - that’s why he doesn’t believe anything.
It just doesn’t hold.
But that weak central coherence doesn’t give him the types of overview that allow for noticing what he actually brings (what happens) and these contradictions. Nor does he seem to know the epistemic burden he expects others to carry that he doesn’t have to.
If you think he is wrong he has an open mind so convince him he is wrong - giving you a million new things to justify AND he bears no responsibility for his assertions. You have to show him wrong.
You make an assertion and….you gotta demonstrate that.
“Always the betting man”, as they say, but not the seeker of Truth, and wisdom.
Presuming you know what will happen, but not stopping to check, question, nor clarify first.
But you only have to question assumptions, or beliefs. See, once you understand and know the answers to what you are calling the “mammalian self-awareness”, there is nothing further being assumed, and thus nothing more to question. You have broken out and past that closed loop.
Also, when you come to know the answer to the question, ‘Who am ‘I’?’ then ‘you’ have reached True or full Self-Awareness. which is also known as - the entire Universe Aware of Its-Self. From which there is not a belief nor an assumption left to question.
As I have been saying and pointing out.
Do not forget, people like you are not invited nor even wanted to follow.
You still seem completely lost and confused here in this forum as well.
The last thing I am doing is bearing gifts for you people here.
I write words. People take those words as they are, misinterpret them, or leave them.
I, once again, am not here to necessarily teach anything. I am here to learn.
You are, still, a long, long way off. You keep missing the mark.
Again, people like this one and “atla”, it appears, still prefer to talk about me, instead of doing what these philosophy forums were actually set up for.
These types of people will talk ‘about me’ and tell each other what they are curious ‘about’ in regards to ‘me’, but not spend the time to just ask ‘me’ the clarifying question.
People like these two love to ‘gang up’ on others, and speak to each other like they are better than others.
LOL The presuming continues, with not a split-second of contemplation to wonder if what it presumes could be wrong or incorrect in any way.
The fact that you believe, absolutely, that I can’t understand what you claim here, is beyond hilarious.
These type of people cannot stop themselves from making presumptions.
In psychosynthesis there is a disidentification process.
The Body: “I have a body, but I am not my body”.
The Emotions: “I have emotions, but I am not my emotions”.
The Mind: “I have a mind, but I am not my mind”.
The Roles: “I play many roles, but I am not my roles”
The you get the questions:“What am I then?” “What remains after having disidentified myself from my body, sensations, feelings, desires, mind, and actions?” “Who is aware?” (Often asked while focusing on a simple mental image, like a white circle). “Are these thoughts who I am?” “When my thoughts change, do ‘I’ change too?” “Who is the ‘I’ who seems to be able to direct my thoughts?”
“How do I experience my sense of self in relation to these ongoing, changing experiences?”
You do this long enough and you are getting into Buddhist turf: You’ve got a Witness, the ‘I’. Which can eventually be Age’s One or The Mind, and is not the subjective human being individual. There’s a process of detachment and non-attachment, which connects to Anatta in Buddhism and even Neti, Neti in Vedanta.
And so a slow process of realizing our true absolute nature.
But it differs with Buddhism on the Self. Generally Buddhism has no Self or self. Though one might say the Buddha is that. Psychosynthesis does have Self, capital S: a core reality of pure awareness and will.
That which remains is the Self (or Mind or One in Ken’s system)
I’m sure he’ll say it is not at all the same, but that’s just ego talking 
. That’s Ken talking not The Mind. That’s the ‘human being’ reacting.
But of course only Anew1 can track how he reacts. Is it a mere urge to correct the record? Or did it somehow get under the skin.
Are you aware that “atla” is still at the bodily image in front of a mirror is self-awareness stage?
Seems like a very long and convoluted way, especially when the answer to the question, ‘Who am ‘I’?’ has still not yet been reached and realised.
If you had spent more time being open and curious, then you might have found out what the Truth is here. Once again, your presumptions and beliefs have been holding you back and stopping and preventing you from finding the Real and True answers.
Realising and understanding human beings True absolutely nature happens and occurs very, very quickly. That is, of course, when one has already obtained the Right formula, and knows the Right process.
When one realises humans’ True absolute nature, they also know and realise how quick, simple, and easy it really is to realise humans’ True absolute nature.
There is nothing that ‘does have’ Self. Self is not owned by any thing.
If you knew thy Self, then you would have already realised this.
Again, you end up believing some thing based on nothing at all but your own presumptions. And, if you had actually been following and listening, then you would already know what I will say/ have already said.
Also, some might note that what you are ‘sure of’ is just ego talking. See only the ego would be ‘sure of’ some thing, that in Reality it is not actually ‘sure of’ at all, and when the opposite is what is actually True, and especially when the Truth has already been shown to be True, then that is a sure sign of the ego talking, and being LOL ‘sure of itself’.
And, that “iwannaplato” talking, and being absolutely sure of itself.
Which, as some might say, is the ‘human being’ reacting.
For example, from Ken: The Mind can see and know It Self, from the Mind’s eye. There is only One invisible non-physical Mind, which exists within any and ALL things. The reason human beings have evolved into a Self conscious and Self aware being is because of the open Mind.–So, the process is to show that these things humans think they are, are not the real Self.
If you’ve tried a bunch of things, this all will sound familiar.
But you’ve still left out the crucial part, you haven’t actually answered my question. Please explain how EXACTLY it is so that what everyone as the One knows, is ABSOLUTELY TRUE?
Did you miss the part where I said and wrote -
It was in the words that I wrote, which you quoted?
I will try again. What everyone, as One, knows, then this is absolutely True, because there is no one saying nor claiming that ‘it’ is not absolutely True.
i thought this was obvious and already known.
No Age, irrefutable has nothing to do with ABSOLUTELY TRUE (according to almost everyone, the two are unrelated). That’s why almost no one ever listens to what you have to say.
Okay. But, if “almost no one ever listens to what I have to say”, you people here talk ‘about me’, and share ‘my words’ around quite a lot.
Now, if ‘irrefutable’ really does have absolutely nothing to do with what you write, ABSOLUTELY TRUE, then why not, exactly?
Noted, you again wrote, “almost everyone”, as though you laughingly know what “almost everyone” knows and would agree with.
Now, also noted is you told me to please explain how exactly it is so that what everyone as the One knows is absolutely True. I then go on to inform you. But, you read 3 words only, you then decide that is enough, and then begin to write your reply with a “No”, and then go on completely off-topic about something in regards to what I actually said and explained.
Once again “atla” I suggest you become even just somewhat open when you read ‘my actual words’.
If you keep using your APE-thinking, then you will keep being led astray and left way behind.