A Thread To Talk About Anything.

That’s what Jews say too. Too good for manual labor, I guess, need to be in management positions and just tell others what to do and have them do all the dirty work.

I don’t see it happening. That’s one reason why unions are failing. There will always be people who are willing to work for half the wage, messing things up for everyone else. And McCain needs to go. Free trade means somebody’s going to take your job away from you, for less, and companies are going to pocket money saved; ultimately, good for corporations, and bad for workers rights. And being ‘more competitive’ really means cutting costs at the workers’ expense. Don’t like your wages being dropped and your worker’s rights slowly being taken away? It’s okay, Abu there will work for less and not complain about it, and company will profit more and eventually ‘boost’ the economy.

It’s good to clean-up after yourself, to take care of your house so that it is a home, and it is also therapeutic, which is just to say it is psychologically rewarding as well.

When you take care of the small things and menial concerns in your life, your environment – e.g. hygiene, cleanliness, physical shape, keeping records and affairs in order, etc. – you build up an ethic and confidence which provide stability and control and lead to achieving greater and greater things. It starts with taking care of yourself and staying on top of your affairs.

But if you have the money, which I am pretty sure most of people here do, why not pay someone else to do the job?
It saves time and helps you focus on more important things.
Imagine if everyone did everything on their own.
What would happen? Noone would get anywhere.

Ancient peoples used slaves for the menial labor.
Basically, their workers had no rights whatsoever.
Nowadays, we just pay people to do the job.

They say “time is money”.
I say “time is power”.
You want to have as much free time as possible.
How can you have any free time if you focus on menial tasks?
I understand when someone is poor and can’t afford a cleaning service.
But most people here aren’t really poor.
In Italy, I recall, a waiter earns more than 1,500 EUR per month.
That’s more than enough to afford a cleaning service.
Here, where I live, that’s an above average pay.
Far far above average since our average is like 400 EUR.

You’re probably not going to get to do that.

It makes sense. I’m not opposed to hiring cleaning services. You asked why anyone would want to clean the house themselves. I do this, and the above are my reasons. I don’t say one has to do every menial task in life himself, but when it pertains to the home and one’s affairs I think it is good to put in the time oneself.

If I had all the money, I’d still do my own cleaning. It’s the way I was brought up (doing household chores and raised to clean up after myself; something I think the male sex is still lagging behind at). It kinda actually irks me when people get high headed and think they are above certain things all of the sudden. It facilitates an attitude of laziness and false sense of security. If people were responsible and considerate enough to clean after their own shit (I mean it not just literally) we would save others a lot of unnecessary trouble. I am not against designating duties when you have to be focused on doing one particular thing only, I am talking about developing a general attitude and a habit where you think that some menial tasks are not important enough. (I am sure a boy engrossed in playing his video games would think he’s doing more important things than cleaning up his messy room). It’s really a selfish attitude, and not of a healthy kind at that. I don’t care what ancients did and why, a lot of ancient nobility was pretty depraved too, and I am not going to copy them because of some romanticized notions based on books and peoples imagination. I just don’t believe that anyone is all of the sudden too good to touch dirt, or do manual labor, (unless you’re injured or have physical disability, in which case you’re actually below it). It’s the same backwards attitude of men who work in an office in a managerial job and then go to the gym to pump up their bodies. Too good for construction type job, but still want to look buff.

Obviously, there are reasons to do it. I didn’t mean it literally.
It appears Panda is very much against people who do not clean their houses on their own.

It has nothing to do with being above menial work in the sense of “I am never gonna do that”. Of course, when it becomes necessary, one would do well to perform such tasks. But when you’re in a position to dedicate yourself to higher tasks, which are by their nature as you say managerial, you’d do well to delegate them, I mean menial jobs, to other people.

I don’t see the problem. We do that all the time.

Did you make your clothes on your own?
Did you make your shoes on your own?
Did you build your house on your own?
Did you make your furniture on your own?
Did you make your devices on your own?
And when they malfunction, do you repair them on your own?
Did you install electricity in your house on your own?
Do you have your own power generator? Did you build it on your own?
Did you install water line on your own?
Do you have your own water source?
Do you produce food on your own?
Do you have a farm of your own?
When you get sick, do you treat yourself on your own?
When someone robs you, do you chase them down on your own?
Do you teach your kids on your own?
And so on and so forth.

It makes no sense to let other people teach your kids but refuse to let others clean your house.

I’m a prolific procrastinator, I admit being such.

Ideally, I would like to do all these things myself, and there was time when people did, and were self-sustaining in that sense. Now, nobody knows how to do anything and has to hire a ‘professional’ to do it for them. It’s actually very sad how little of the basic stuff people know. Nobody knows how anything works or how to repair anything, or build anything, we just throw the thing away or pay somebody else to make it again or repair it for us. Things used to last and people took care of them (and knew how to) and made them last. Now, everything is disposable, because learning how to fix it takes precious time and effort that could be used for nobler (?!) things, so it’s faster to just throw it away and buy a new thing, or hire someone else to worry about it. We are a consumer culture, and we really do not value the things we use, or are even aware of how much effort goes into producing things we consume or take for granted (because we have ‘better’ things to do and worry about).
And homeschooling your children is a better alternative to garbage public education.

Pandabear wrote

Exactly. Well put. I referred to this in another thread that today’s generation are talkers rather than doers. They don’t know jack. I can do all the basic services to my car other than putting on the oil filter. I can house paint, install carpet, install a toilet, a door, a floor, wallpaper, service a furnace, change out the inside components of a toilet, build my own desktop PC, etc. Well, it’s a long list of what I can do rather than what I can’t when it comes to basic stuff. Today’s generation don’t make life an adventure that they experience on their own, they live vicariously without common sense.

You’re probably not wrong.

Of course.

It is a nice thing to be able to do everything on your own. But how is that an argument against division of labor?
If you want to do things fast, if you want to perform multiple tasks simultaneously, then you need to delegate some of these tasks to other people.
If I want to clean my house and train my body within a very short period of time then, unless I have the supernatural ability to multitask between the two, to perform them seemingly at the same time, you have to divide the labor.
You get someone to clean your house and then you spend all of your time on training your body.
It’s almost the same as possessing and applying the aforementioned supernatural ability to perform multiple different task across different geographical regions at the same time.

Why is division of labor not self-sustaining?
Why is employing other people’s functions, instead of your own functions, not self-sustaining?

Want, want, want is not need. Fast, fast, fast is not living.

You think that people live fast for no reason?

For no good reasons, yes. People with a bunch of kids have tight schedules so they are always in fast mode, but everybody else simply rushes for no good reason 99% of the time.

Speaking of earning a living I fucking hate working. I wish that I could collect a small fortune of money monthly for doing nothing at all. That’s like my ultimate dream occupation.

This whole rat race is bullshit, everybody knows it is bullshit. It is entirely without virtue or merit. A human being was not meant to work fifty hours plus a week.

What do you do for a living sir? Well, I sleep in everyday, collect an extensive gun collection, lounge around playing video games, read books, go travelling, go out to expensive restaurants, and I occasionally fuck my girlfriend. If I can find a way to live like that I’ll be the first in line.