I’d say that it is first and foremost necessary to become liberated oneself and look at what we can do for people in our neighbourhood. If there is one thing that I had to learn early on, it is the fact that many people don’t have the same understanding of liberation as I do.
I have a deep scepticism that what we Westerners think of as moksha has much to do with what people in the East understand it to be. It is like the fish saying, “I want to fly like a bird,” and a bird saying, “The problem is the water!”
The fish says, “What water?”
No problem. I’m interested in your perspective. Whereas in the 20th century, it was fashionable for scientists and analytic philosophers to deny consciousness altogether or relegate it to an epiphenomena, there are a number of scientists that I’m aware of today that are contributing to the discourse on consciousness including Roger Penrose, Bernardo Kastrup, Donald Hoffman, and Federico Faggin.
Behaviorism which explains consciousness as an epiphenomena was the dominant psychology when I was in college. Philosophy and science have come a long way since then.
It helps to be abreast of the latest, which I’m not. The topic however is super ancient - Advaita Vedanta and Schopenhauer has long gone and Idealism was Newton’s days. Talk of “ghosts of departed quantities”. That is not to say they haven’t left a few blazons notes around to aid our own personal journeys through the ideascape.
I don’t have a perspective as this is a advanced field. I wouldn’t know where to begin.
As Daniel Dennentt points out in his book “consciousness explained”the term epiphenomenon first appears in the shorter Oxford English Dictionary in 1706 as a term in pathology meaning a secondary appearance or symptom.Thomas Huxley extended the term to its current use in psychology where it means a non-functional property or byproduct. Dennett was a student of Gilbert Rile viewed consciousness not as an internal, private mental entity, but as a set of observable behaviors and behavioral dispositions. He famously criticized the idea of the mind as a separate “ghost in the machine,” arguing that it was a category error to treat mental states as distinct from physical actions and behaviors. Ryle believed that mental states are essentially descriptions of how someone is likely to behave in certain situations.
My perspective on this is that I am consciousness itself, not the body or the mind which appear in me. When I am awake, I am conscious of both the body and the mind. When I dream, I’m only conscious of the mind and in deep sleep, I’m conscious of neither. So I view all these changes as products of consciousness rather than the other way around, which is the conventional way of looking at the situation.
As long as I find myself embodied in this way, it is my duty to serve everyone with love and compassion because I’m fundamentally one with them in reality. I believe that’s what Jesus was talking about as well as the other saints and sages throughout the world. That’s kind of my religion in a nutshell.
I believe Gilbert Ryle is a professional philosopher and so was late Dennett. I however wasn’t aware that they were teacher and student to each other. Interesting.
Your perspective is a well-known one and it resonates with me too. I suppose that implies something of material consequence.
Some on this very forum seem to think “I am conscious” but “I am not consciousness”. I didn’t quite get that.
“…the incredibly large majority of men are by nature quite incapable of any but material aims, indeed they can conceive no others. Thus the pursuit of truth alone is far too lofty and eccentric an endeavour for us to expect all or many, or indeed even a few, faithfully to take part in. “
The collected works of Arthur Schopenhauer page 246
I had some issues with the idea that Advaita Vedanta acknowledges ignorance (avidya) and the resulting superimposition as a necessary condition for practical life and survival in the empirical world. However, avidya also causes a misperception of ultimate reality. Nevertheless, it fulfils a natural and unavoidable role in enabling us to function as separate individuals with identities, navigating a world filled with dangers and multiplicity that would otherwise be overwhelming if perceived directly as it truly is: nondual Brahman without distinctions.
This may be due to the blame attached to sinfulness in Christianity, whereas here, there is no blame, just a state of ignorance that we must overcome because it is ultimately the root cause of suffering, limitation and ignorance of our true nature. Therefore, the system recognises the functional necessity of ignorance for navigating a dangerous, differentiated world, while simultaneously prescribing liberation as the goal of dissolving the limitations born of that condition.
Advaita Vedanta acknowledges that the ‘automatic mis-cognition’ that makes us perceive the world and ourselves as separate and multiple is a natural and necessary condition for living and surviving in a differentiated world full of dangers. This state of ignorance (avidya) and superimposition (adhyasa) is beginningless and is structurally embedded in how consciousness operates within the empirical realm. This allows for consistent and reliable perception and interaction with our environment. It is not a moral fault or accident, but a practical condition that is essential for functioning within time, space and causality.
At the same time, however, Advaita Vedanta views this ignorance as the root of suffering and limitation from an ultimate standpoint. The spiritual goal is to transcend and dissolve this condition intentionally through knowledge and realisation of Brahman, viewing the relative world as provisional and ultimately illusory. Therefore, although ignorance is functionally necessary for practical life and survival, liberation involves recognising it and going beyond to the underlying non-dual reality.
Compare avidya with what Donald Hoffman calls the “Fitness-Beats-Truth” (FBT) theorem, which states that evolution by natural selection does not favor true perceptions—it routinely drives them to extinction. Instead, natural selection favors perceptions that hide the truth and guide useful (or in the case of “sin” pleasurable at the moment) action.
I sometimes wonder if the Gnostics got it partly right and this world is really hell, an extreme test for all the human souls who enter it. A place where all the slaves delusionally think of themselves as being free. Is it karma? I don’t know, wish I knew.
To some early Christians, it was blasphemy to ascribe the passions of jealousy and wrath to the supreme God. According to Platonic theology, God can only be good; in fact, God is the Good.
Likewise, the symbol of the Fall predates Christianity. When Plato described the transition from essence to existence, he used a mythological form of expression in speaking of the Fall of the soul. The Fall is a symbol for the human situation universally not the story of an event that happened once upon a time.
The law of karma makes a lot of sense of the suffering of life. Suffering is not a punitive judgment, but a necessary tool in the soul, spiritual evolution from ignorance toward divine consciousness. Karma is not a rigid law of punishment, but a process of spiritual learning.
Suffering can be traced back to the ignorance that results from the evolution of the ego that separates the individual from divine consciousness itself. This division leads to the dualities of pleasure and pain. Humanity is an intermediate position evolving toward divine consciousness. Suffering is in fact a catalyst used to break the ego’s self-delusion.
It is true of any religion you study in this world of an originally once paradise lost in a world of plenty where human beings cast themselves out of it as we’re the creators of our own hells and prisons. At this apex or peak of our technological marvels and organized science we’re turning this entire world of ours into one giant global prison, so mentally cunning or clever is this global prison very few are scarcely aware of its presence at all.
Is this the planet that use to be the natural paradise turned corrupted overtime, or is this some hellish prison realm reincarnated souls are sent to upon death? I leave it to anybody’s interpretation either way. Here in this existence is a giant mental test of anybody’s faith in themselves and whatever higher power or calling they embrace, I believe if this place is hell only the most spiritual devotees are able to transcend in finally breaking free of it. Only those who are mentally adept are able to ascend beyond the constraints of this prison world.
To see it as Hell might represent spiritual progress. The Rakshasas see it as their playground.
It’s a bit more like Purgatory than Hell if you see a way out. If you see the phrase “Abandon every hope all who enter” inscribed over the gates, that’s Hell.
As you know, the wise call it samsara, the bondage of mundane existence, the cycle of birth and death and suffering powered by craving and attachment rooted in the mistaken belief in a separate self. Vedanta and Buddhism are paths out. One in Hell wouldn’t know a way out and might not even know they’re in Hell.
Continuing a conversation from that other place, I returned to my books by Rudiger Dahlke and looked at them from the new perspective I’ve gained since then:
Contrary to the impression we are given, Mankind is sick.
“Mankind is sick because he lacks unity. The healthy person, who lacks nothing, only exists in the anatomy books of medicine. In the living state, such a specimen is unknown. There may be people who do not develop any particularly noticeable or severe symptoms over decades - but this does not change the fact that they are also ill and mortal.”
[…]
“Illness is to health as death is to life. Such words are uncomfortable, but they have the advantage that everyone can realise the truth for themselves through a little unbiased observation. It is not our intention to create new doctrines, but rather to help those who are willing to do so to sharpen their focus and to supplement the usual perspective with an unfamiliar one. The destruction of illusions is never easy or pleasant, but it always creates a new space of freedom.”
(Dahlke, Krankheit als Weg, 1989, p. 82 + 84 my translation)
In his book The Healing Power of Illness (Krankheit als Weg), Rüdiger Dahlke says that people do not become ill, but are fundamentally ill because they lack unity and therefore the state of “being whole” or wholeness. Illness stands for the unhealing that happens to people due to their inner division and lack of awareness. Symptoms are therefore an expression of what a person lacks - they are a sign of a disturbed inner unity.
Dahlke’s understanding of illness is based on a holistic, psychosomatic view: illness is not just a medical or physical problem but always has a psychological and spiritual dimension. For Dahlke, there are not many different illnesses, but essentially only one illness that manifests itself from a fundamental malaise, a tension and a separation in the person. Every illness is therefore, an indication that something is missing for salvation or wholeness.
According to Dahlke, the lack of unity - i.e. the separation from oneself, one’s needs and one’s consciousness - leads to people living in a state of deficiency and thus chronic illness. Only when this inner division is overcome and unity is restored can true health (healing) occur. For Dahlke, symptoms are never enemies, but messages or teachers that point out what we are lacking and what we need to work on to achieve wholeness and healing.
Common ground with Erich Fromm
Dahlke sees illness as an important path to development: dealing with our own symptoms helps us to develop more awareness and restore our own unity. Symptoms are therefore meaningful indications that show people the direction in which they are still imperfect and therefore “ill”.
This has a clear connection with the self-alienation described by Erich Fromm. Fromm sees alienation as the central illness of modern man: One is alienated from oneself, one’s feelings, fellow human beings and nature and thus lives not in a state of unity and wholeness, but of division and inner emptiness. For Fromm, this alienation is at the root of many psychological and social problems and is closely linked to a lack of authenticity and a lack of productive self-contact.
Dahlke’s concept of a lack of unity as the cause of illness is philosophically related to Fromm’s description that people have become alienated from themselves and have lost their inner wholeness. Both Dahlke and Fromm emphasise that healing or mental health is only possible by overcoming the split and restoring authenticity and inner coherence. The symptoms that Dahlke sees as an expression of a lack of unity would be manifestations of self-alienation for Fromm - both describe a disturbed relationship to one’s own self and to the world.
There are minor differences and additions in that while Dahlke’s arguments are more spiritual and psychosomatic (illness as an expression of lost unity), Fromm usually interprets alienation in socio-psychological and socio-critical terms as a consequence of conformity, materialism and a lack of self-realisation. However, both approaches share the idea that healing, development and meaning go hand in hand with a return to one’s own wholeness, to an authentic self-relationship, and to deeper contact with the world.
The lack of unity described by Dahlke is philosophically and psychologically very close to Fromm’s concept of self-alienation, and both see this as the cause of illness and disaster in people.
A misconception of Sin
Dahlke discusses how the Abrahamic religions depict sin as an expression of disunity, characterised by guilt and evil. However, it is our shared sense of polarity or duality in life, rather than the idea of punishment, that causes us problems. “Once these basic facts are recognised, they have no negative connotations. It is only when we fail to recognise them that they become terrible enemies.” (p. 81).
This approach distinguishes Dahlke’s perspective from the classical idea of divine punishment found in many Abrahamic contexts. Instead of viewing evil as something that must be punished by God, Dahlke identifies the real issue as an inability to recognise and unify the polarities within our own psyche. The ‘terrible enemies’ are not external forces or moral failings, but rather projections of our struggle with inner dualities that remain unresolved due to unawareness or denial.
Recognising and integrating the basic dualities of human experience — rather than suppressing or dividing them as ‘sinful’ — leads to transformation. Failure to recognise the polar structure of life breeds suffering and turns traits such as guilt and evil into powerful negative forces; acknowledging them dispels their terror. In sum, Dahlke’s idea reframes the Abrahamic narrative of sin, guilt and evil as a teaching about unity and the creative handling of polarity, rather than about judgement and punishment.
Dahlke’s model does not deny the existence of external causes of illness, such as viruses, bacteria, environmental toxins and physical trauma. While emphasising the symbolic, psychosomatic and spiritual dimensions of illness, he acknowledges that factors outside the individual, such as infectious diseases and lifestyle choices, influence health. He also points out that external conflicts, stressors and physical conditions can trigger or exacerbate illness, and that medical treatment for purely physical problems is still necessary.
This concept is similar to avidya in Vedanta, which is closely related to Dahlke’s idea that disunity or unconsciousness is the root of existential suffering and illness. In Advaita Vedanta, avidya literally means ignorance — specifically, the fundamental misunderstanding of our true nature as non-dual, unified consciousness (Atman/Brahman).
Avidya functions as a veil that obscures recognition of one’s true self, causing the illusion of separation from others and the world. This leads to identification with temporary forms (the body, thoughts and emotions) rather than the underlying, limitless reality. According to this perspective, suffering and error do not result from the external world itself, but from the failure to see through this illusion — a direct analogue to Dahlke’s view that illness and discord arise from not recognising the basic polarities of existence.
Healing
Dahlke emphasises the importance of consciously addressing one’s own inner conflicts, emotions and body messages. Illnesses and symptoms should be understood as language images of the soul that provide clues to inner disharmony. Through mindfulness, reflection and conscious perception, these messages can be decoded, and the path to integration and healing can be taken.
Bodywork and breathing techniques
Techniques such as connected breathing help to release blocked energies and restore inner connection. Such methods enable a deeper experience of the self and promote the awakening of unity.
Fasting and nutritional awareness
Dahlke sees fasting as a valuable practice that creates clarity, relieves the body, and supports spiritual and mental purification. Peaceful, conscious nutrition (“peace food”) is recommended as another part of the path to maintaining health and wholeness.
Holistic integration
He advocates a holistic approach that views the body, soul, and spirit as a unity. The restoration of inner unity is achieved through the conscious integration of all these levels, including the loving acceptance of disharmonies and polarity.
Dahlke recommends practical work with the body, breath, nutrition, and awareness to overcome inner division and achieve unity as a basic state, thereby transforming illness as an expression of lack of consciousness.
First, let’s acknowledge the synchronicity involved. Few of Dahlke’s books are available in English on Amazon. The only book of his I have seen or read by Dahlke up til now is the out-of-print “Mandalas of the World: A Meditating & Painting Guide” which I found in a used bookstore. I had no idea of any of his other writings until you informed me yesterday. His interest in mandalas, the healing power of illness and the shadow principle clearly signal that he is a Jungian.
Yes one could say that humanity is indeed sick. To recover, first we must see that we are ill. As Kierkegaard recognized the our sickness is “…unto death. “ Dahlke saw mandala meditation as it means of healing. He noted that there are many ways to proceed in meditation just as there are a numerable Mandalas, but only one center. He clarified the meaning of concentration which is essential to meditation. “ Centration” —focusing on the Center— is indispensable to meditation.” Returning to one’s Center is the source of all psychic healing. When you find the Center of your being, you realize there is only one center to the entire universe, which is in the heart of every being. Oneness with the Center that you are is the source of healing.
I really do like the concept of global community where nations reach out to one another in terms of trade, aid, communication, defense, innovation, and diplomacy. That type of global unity I can get behind, it’s just discussions about world government and the abolition of nation states or national borders I find disturbing.
The world we perceive with the senses is a projection of the mind. But we have direct inward access to it as will through our bodies. Will is the thing-in-itself, the essence of of the world. Life, the visible world, phenomenon, is only the mirror of the will. Life accompanies the will as inseparably as the shadow accompanies the body. As long as the will exists, so will life, the world, exist. But, the individual is phenomenal and exists only for the mind bound by limiting concepts driven by the will (the life force).
