Alcohol: healthy or harmful? even in small doses?

If you click the link to the data source, you’ll get the nice colored text and a few images, but I quoted it here:

benbest.com/health/alcohol.html

I brewed some, as Gobbo knows, but I decided to check out the facts before I jump on the band-wagon. I liked the taste, but now I think I’ll just give away my brew, and stick with herbal tea.

Dan it’s more hazardous to your health to walk through downtown Toronto than to drink a beer. One drink won’t kill you.

I wonder how bad breathing in some of the exhaust from a car would be, compared to a drink…

I am not a doctor, but I can’t help thinking that it’s better to have a glass of malbec than it is to read all of that.

I guess I’m not a detail guy.

Anyway, it’s just a guess, because I actually did have a glass of malbec instead of reading all of that.

Are you joking here, Dan~? If you are not, carbon monoxide kills relatively quickly - considerably quicker than would a drink. Besides, I think Gobbo may have been referring to crime and accidents, rather than inhalation of carbon monoxide.

One benefit of alcohol that your article fails to mention, Dan~, is that one can always write off completely idiotic posts on the internet to ‘having a good drunk on’. What health-friendly substitute does your liver-loving article provide for this necessity?

Huh?

The liver must pay.

Healthy? Probably not.

But awesome? Definately.

Humans weren’t meant to be immortal, there is always some trade-off. People are returning to ‘organic’ foods because of the negative health effects of modern agriculture – but they forget that with the advent of modern agriculture, the rate of stomach cancer dramatically declined.

Trade-offs, trade-offs, trade-offs.

I enjoy the taste as well as the psychological effects of ethanol and the cardioprotective qualities are an added bonus.

The oldest man in the world attributes his longevity to his beer drinking. While I’m not so sure I buy that, it is worth noting that the oldest living man is an avid beer drinker.

Perhaps it’s also noteworthy that the world’s oldest known women, who recently died, claimed all she ever had for lunch was a glass of wine.

Dan~

Start out slow and don’t drink too frequently. Taking breaks over time allows your body to repair. However, I’m very sure that constant drinking cause damage that does not repair itself.

They say that a small amount of red wine every day is good for you.

Perhaps that is so.

Regardless, those who drink to hide from the painful feelings of abandonment are alcoholics, and, like any other addiction, alcoholism presents a disease that needs to be cured to save the life of the person so suffering, because, the truth, as most know, is that addiction, left unremedied is not only always fatal itself, but that it masks a disease that is also always fatal, and that disease cannot be treated until the deadly addiction that masks it is removed.

I guess we totally ducked here the generational cycles of domestic abuse through alcoholism.

I have never found a good substitute to going in the middle of a beat-up underground, trashy screaming pumping your ears, twisting off the cap and lighting up a cigarette. Maybe it’s the fact that you’re close to an open flame while guzzling something flammable?

It’s a cultural thing is what it is. There are psychological advantages to cultural interaction. Drinking and loud music makes me want to fall asleep. Pot makes me paranoid. That old man coughing his liver onto the floor makes me quit smoking. I wonder if these are all genetic products of natural selection? I’ll settle for a natural phase to do stupid things. After all, the genetically superior need not resist addictions- they simply surpass them.

Propoganda of the worst kind - against liquor! Here’s some quotes from experts on the subject that everyone should memorise in case of any further attempt at such brainwashing. For shame Dan-. Thats right, no squiggly line for you!

nods

I have come to believe that certain people should never drink. So, a blanket statement doesn’t work here. Some people don’t metabolize it the way others do and they become crazed.

For example, faust and I have our issue with Jack Daniels. He makes us out of control and it is just wrong. And we are not alone - whiskey must have properties in it to make a sane person into a raving maniac. I don’t have the data to back that up, but it has to be true.

I think that what you become when you drink is who you really are in life. If you are an angry person, you will be angrier. If you tend to be silly, you become sillier. I am a cross between Aretha and Tom Cruise jumping on couches. Sometimes it just isn’t pretty.

I miss my Jack, but I’ll stick to my Shiraz. :confused:

(Odd, Daybreak, I didn’t think Nietzsche believed in spirits.)

Psalms 104:15 “And that wine may cheer the heart of man…”

“But Catholic men who live upon wine
Are deep in the water, and frank, and fine;
Wherever I travel I find it so,
Benedicamus Domino.”

For all the wonderful effects of alcohol, it does harm us physically, but then so does almost everything else. People living in a beautiful pine forest inhale more hydrocarbons (pines give off large amounts of hydrocarbons) than two or three hours of sitting on an LA freeway. Life is physical trade offs. Complete abstinance from anything is ridiculous. The complexity of all the various chemicals we ingest, their interactions in the body, our exposure to airborne chemicals, exposure to the sun, defies any final knowing of what is “killing” us.

If you think about it, most medicines are a poison of some kind, and are only beneficial is small amounts. Alcohol is no different.

So pick your poison, just don’t go swimming in it. :laughing:

What are the health effects of unrelieved stress?

Great initial post, but shallow responses, so far.

The anti-alcohol poster was right on for almost every single one of his claims on which I have definitive knowledge, which is most of them. There have been randomized double-blind trials on how alcohol affects cholesterol levels, and the conclusion is “positively”. Because of this, doctors sometimes recommend a glass of red wine per day. Unfortunately, this is a ridiculous suggestion. It is ridiculous for two reasons. 1) Alcohol is a confirmed neurotoxin, and one of the few neurotoxins that is both water- and fat-soluble. It is a diuretic, which has unfortunate effects on the brain. It has a host of other health related problems, although its being a neurotoxin is certainly the worst. 2) Red grape juice, from which red wine is derived, has the same effect on arterial widening and the reduction of arterial build-up, only more pronounced per volume. Doctors should instead be recommending a glass of red grape juice per day.

Many of the responses I’ve seen here have been vacuous and dismissive. “The liver must pay,” “it’s better to have a glass of malbec than to read all that,” and so on, are funny, but are meant to end the discussion without actually saying anything worthwhile. Interestingly, these are the exact same responses one gets if one broaches the subject in person: humorous dismissal - “it’s only the weakest brain cells that are being killed, so it’s actually making me smarter!” - with absolutely zero discussion following it. These people are clearly only interested in justifying their own lifestyle without actually having to defend their position.

This doesn’t mean that the position is indefensible - but it does mean that anyone who responds this way should probably be re-thinking his decisions.

The best reason, I think, to be wary of alcohol or to avoid it altogether, is that it is a potent neurotoxin. The effects of all neurotoxins are similar in one respect: they cause immediate harm, and immediate death, to the neurons they affect. This has the result of immediate cognitive effects which are temporary and diminish with time, accompanied by permanent neuronal weakening and death. Literally, every time you drink, in the process of “feeling” the effects of the alcohol, many brain cells are becoming permanently disabled, or are dying. While this damage isn’t severe immediately - one beer won’t kill you - it absolutely accumulates over time, and even aside from the other bodily effects of alcohol that accumulate over time, will result in a worse memory, slower reflexes, and significantly increased chance of Alzheimers and other forms of dementia in older age.

One beer won’t kill you, but one beer per week - and especially one beer per day - will have severe effects after a few decades.

I’m a big fan of learning how to be relaxed, and how to enjoy life, WITHOUT a brain-killing crutch. I think it’s absolutely pathetic when someone thinks to themselves, “I need to relax. Alcohol time!”, or “I’m feeling uptight in this group of people. I need a drink!” Surely we can do better than that.

Oh, and I just read something else.

No, that statement is ridiculous. I don’t mean to pick on you specifically, but one of the most annoying aspects of the whole “alcohol / drugs” debate is when people use happy-feely phrases to justify their points when, upon closer inspection, those phrases are unjustifiable and obviously wrong. “Everything in moderation” is obviously a good example, as is your similar quote.

Everything in moderation? That sounds like a nice justification to do any kind of drug you want. How about pot in moderation? Sure, why not. LSD? Heroin? You can get physically addicted to heroin after a single dose. Cyanide? Mercury? Or how about some murder in moderation?

You mention this to people, and they try to come up with a lame rationalization - “murder can never be done in moderation”, “that statement only applies to things that are morally acceptable”. What they’re getting to is that the statement only applies to things that are acceptable in moderation - and so the statement is absolutely worthless. 100%.

It’s a simple fact that we DON’T want to do everything in moderation. There are PLENTY of things we want to avoid 100%, forever. I hope never to cut off my own limbs with a chainsaw - that’s something we all will probably abstain from. On the flip side, I intend to breathe like crazy. I’m such a breathing addict that I’m going to do it every few seconds for the rest of my LIFE, and if I don’t get my fix I will surely die.

The issue of alcohol, and of drugs in general, has absolutely nothing to do with retarded platitidues like “everything in moderation”. Rather, it’s a cost-benefit analysis. On one hand, alcohol loosens you up and makes you have more fun now. On the other hand, it damages your body - worse, it damages your brain, and any habitual use of alcohol results in testably worse cognitive function in older age - and it also enforces the habit of requiring alcohol in order to relax / socialize / etc.

I once had a pothead friend that I went camping with. He kept looking at the beautiful mountains and streams and waterfalls and saying “man, this would be so much better if I were stoned right now.” Hopefully we can all agree that that’s pathetic - but that’s exactly how I feel about people who “need” a beer to relax, or to be social. Pathetic.

Twiffy,

I’m annoyed as well, but from the other side. The anti-alcohol lobby online always treats the case of binge drinking of alcohol and not responsible drinking. For much of Europe, low-alcohol drinks like beer and wine form a part of the festivity and relaxation of eating. It’s main effect is to depress the central nervous system, the killing of any brain cells seems a side-effect of excess.

Also, I don’t know if I should bring in a religious factor here, but in Christianity, the Incarnate God not only drank wine, and miraculously made wine out of water, but also the apostle Paul advocates the occasional drinking of wine to Timothy because he drinks too much water. Paul also warns against people with poor consciences who will forbid certain foods which should be accepted with gratitude to God. The beverage is a large part of Western culture.

As for information on alcohol effects online, I think it is mostly used to scare teens out of binge-drinking and does not address moderate cultural drinking, for which I refer again to the quote I posted above: Benedicamus Domino.

Thanks for reading.