How can I tell my son why algebra matters without making him roll his eyes?
Pls avoid stock answers of how business relies on measurement and numbers and logic, and pls avoid attempts at humor about finishing school or learning to conform. I want a real weighty no bullshit simple answer that is algebra specific and enlightening. Any takers?
What are his interests?
That determines whether algebra matters or not.
Ancient people came up with Algebra (you could look into its origins for details) because it increased their capabilities and improved the quality of their lives. Almost everything we consume in the general sense involved algebra in its production and manufacturing. At some point, you may want to understand the things you use (computers, iPhone, etc.) and the modern world around you – to many people it is simply magic that things work and a pain in the ass when they don’t, but to others the world has more dimension and meaning in part through mathematics like Algebra.
It’s worth a try. I’m going back and reading world history because I realized the other day that I couldn’t really speak intelligently or with informed opinions on conflicts and issues of today’s world because I don’t know anything about their histories. I just got tired of not knowing stuff.
I think he would agree it matters. I just don’t think he’d agree that him studying it matters, individually. He thinks he’s a victim of a system that makes everyone learn algebra so that a few of the kids can become engineers. The rest are just wasting time.
I think it’s important to have the intelligence to understand the concept of free variable mathematical equations. But I agree with him, I don’t think gaining mastery of anything but basic algebra is necessarily important to all kids.
It is, however, important to my wife that I tell my son algebra is important.
Perhaps I tell him algebra matters so that daddy can get laid. Solving for X, indeed.
Tell him people who suck at math spend their lives being screwed over by people who are good at it.
It is a bit pointless to tell a young person that something will matter later in life. What every good teacher knows is to make each step of things like algebra “hands-on rewarding”, some simple easy, preferably fun task that exercises the lesson until it becomes innate.
People learn to fail math by being mis-taught in such a way as to never be able to recover from the confusion placed in their minds. They lose track of what was actually supposed to be relevant. So a good teachers makes sure that the first steps are very, very clear and simple. After most of the beginning steps are clear, the rest doesn’t require so much careful attention because the issue of “what part of all of this is actually relevant” has been identified in their minds.
A good teacher can teach basic math to anyone who hasn’t already been ruined by bad teachers, and make it interesting/fun enough to compete with the alluring distractions of the day. Hands-on use of it is the most important thing because that translates to “oh, this is what I can use this crap for”. So little projects of interest that use the tool help a lot; computer programs, computers games, making money, managing money, designing cool-shit, building little things precisely right (actual flying aircraft),…
Just google “why learn algebra”:
google.com/search?sourceid= … rn+algebra
It’s really all rather fascinating. And, as usual, there are “conflicting goods”.
James you are assuming the child is docile enough to commit his mind to learning even the basics. Why do you assume? It’s like saying a horse will drink if you lead him to water and clearly point at the water. A good teacher is one who has a good student.
And biguous, I always google first. I only post a question at ILP when google fails to produce any compelling arguments.
Perhaps I am alone as the horse who won’t drink. All horses need water from the river. Unless they’re hydrated from other sources I suppose. Me the horse, methinks “really? You want me to drink from a river? Gross. I have an actual bottle of evian back at the stall. Not to mention there’s a faucet, too. With water that likely passes through a reclamation plant. So the whole river water thing, no offense, but I’m not feelin’ it.”
I have no advice for my son and you don’t either.
The responsibility rests with the one who wishes the learning to take place.
You might want to reconsider who is doing the assuming.
Might want to reconsider? Just say what you mean bucko. I will reconsider anything that’s why I’m here.
I’m saying that he doesn’t wish for this type of learning to take place. The responsibility is not on him. However, I want the learning to take place, so the responsibility is on me. But I am failing and so are the teachers. That’s why I asked the question. But the answers aren’t compelling here, either.
I think I’ll just settle with this: mental training for overall thinking and logic, also practical for graduating high school and succeeding in this world on the typical options he might want, such as job, apartment, car, family. College helps and you gotta learn algebra to get to college. Done.
The system, such as it is, requires kids to study math. It’s not relevant to all kids, but it’s not entirely useless either, at the very least you come out slightly keener and better. So just do it then go eat something sugary and masturbate, being that you’re 14.
What did you see wrong with the solution that I gave?
I have personally brought failing math and spelling students up to A students, merely by the process that I mentioned. So please tell me what is wrong with it rather than just proclaim that I am assuming something.
There is a method applying arts integration which uses teaching practices that have been shown in brain-based research to improve comprehension and long-term retention, which also approaches maths from a non conventional direction, you may already be aware of this.
Depending upon his temperament, does he lean more towards artistic endeavors, if so, it is important to choose the most appropriate school, one which encourages his strengths. It is virtually useless to hammer the importance of maths into an artistic child and it would be a rather dismissal existence at a school that concentrates on maths and sciences and is competitive in this field, while neglecting the arts.
Gamer, maybe the key is to focus on how to open people up to new things in general. Then once you’ve got a method or a primer that seems to work, adapt it to a specific context like persuading someone to learn algebra. Perhaps you simply can’t make someone learn or want to learn algebra by telling them incredible things about it if they simply haven’t the will. What you really have to do is not make them want to learn algebra but open them up to the idea less forcefully. This might be particularly hard when a lot of the time we try to persuade people to do things that we don’t want to do. And sure we can persuade people some of the time, but someone quickly persuaded is often just as quickly able to lose interest or become persuaded in the opposite direction. I’m thinking that when someone is really opened up to an idea over more than maybe one conversation’s worth of having it sold to them, it sticks more fully in them and allows them to take more ownership of the decision to pursue it rather than if they were implored to pursue it. This is also the second post today in which I get to reference Inception. SO you will need years of training before you can safely and successfully open up your son to algebra. But really, I think it could be accomplished in a reasonable amount of time, or even a fairly short amount of time, perhaps in one conversation. Who knows. It just takes more creativity. And that makes it more difficult to do well. Just thoughts.
Also, what Shieldmaiden said is kind of interesting.
Reward, then question about what he actually understood, then reward for more good grades then more casual questions without pressure. Integrate the algebra questions with science and art or whatever he enjoys. If he enjoys being rewarded and his talks with you he will retain more algebraic information.
Kristwest that speaks to me. It takes a certain kind of parental effort that requires active creativity, engagement and connection. It’s probably the most loving and organic way to turn him on to algebra.
And that’s really it. I’m not impressed with someone who thinks they have successful ways to “teach” but sidestep the issue of kids who are capable of learning but shut off or choose not to. That’s my son. That’s also me. Only as an adult do I realize how it hurt me, but you can’t get a kid to really understand. Part of how it hurt me is that I chose to keep one foot in a life where convention and consumerism dominate. It’s feasible had I lived more courageously, tuning out things like math would NOT have hurt me. So it becomes this warning that hey you need to learn this because you will probably not be brave enough to follow your heart, and you’ll need a degree, etc. The whole argument is kinda depressing, which is why it never worked on me.
I don’t trust anyone who says things that indicate they believe that kids as a default are receptive and want to learn and do well in school and that it all comes down to having struggles with competency and comprehension. There is a species of child that is suffering a whole diff kind of struggle, where they certainly can learn but something feels wrong about it, and they put up blocks. I’m not so ready to tell them they’re wrong.
This is exactly how I feel right now in my life. I am 25 and perhaps I am already too old. But I’m trying to figure it out and follow my heart. The heart doesn’t seem an easy thing to follow. Half the time I don’t even know where it is. Maybe part of that is learned obfuscation. I have a pretty positive outlook, though.
In general, I agree with you about kids and learning and stuff.
Thank-you, I was raised in your boat too in away. My husband as well. We wanted more for our son. We had to get a different approach.
Don’t be just a friend though, be a mentor. Parents can forget that mentoring is important. Kids respond to friend mentor, strict but, there to help.
Ah, you mean a frientor
Yea BTW how is it going with your kid?
A little late to the party but:
First and foremost, it’s nearly impossible in grade school to say what you’ll be doing with your life. I had long arguments with my parents about doing English and writing homework because I wanted to be an engineer, and I ended up being a lawyer, which is basically all reading and writing and grammar nitpicking. It’s worth it to keep doors open, and especially to have a basic knowledge in a diverse set of fields.
What I use algebra for most often is to speed up mental calculation. An example is multiplying large numbers, which is occasionally handy in day to day life. I use FOIL to do that in my head (e.g. 17 x 251 is also (10+7) x (200+50+1)). A really bad example, but illustrative of the point, is calculating time to destination on the highway, which I do to stay awake on long car rides (distance/speeed=time). Another example is figuring out bargains at the grocery store (price per ounce or price per count rather than just price). Much of this can be replaced with a calculator, but if you know algebra and basic math well it’s often faster to do in your head.
Algebra is foundational. Knowing how to abstract from 1+1=2 to x+y=z is a valuable building block to other types of math like calculus, which is super useful just in understanding how the world works. I’ve dabbled in policy, and understanding curves and distributions and asymptotes and derivatives is really useful even when you don’t plug numbers in. And all of that depends on being able to understand math without numbers, and manipulating equations of variables.
Points 1 through 4 are probably pointless; if your son is being difficult, rational argument is unlikely to persuade him. So just pay him to get good grades and be done with it. Ask what it’s worth to you that he graduates and you get laid, and pay him slightly less than that and everyone wins.