Alien Politics

[Fixed_Cross]

What if aliens are out there, like, in the sky above us right now, and they’re accumulating control of the planet, through government contacts. What would they be doing?

Incoherent question. But only because there’s no knowledge I have about this, I am only speculating, half jokingly, half mockingly, but wholly curious.

What I notice is that the powers of the human mind, and with that, of the human spirit, will, are in rapid decline. Even here, people actively object to substantive theses, are approaching high literacy as if it is an insult to their very being, and in the world “out there” it is ten times worse.

But more than that, I feel a level of powerlessness, of slavish surrender, in the western world. In the alien scenario, it could be that this weakness is being engineered.

Ah hell Im just talking here. But since I saw that Canadian military man a few years back talk about how aliens, various sorts of them, have been around here meddling, its always somewhere in the back of my mind that it might even be true.

For if you never took notice, its pretty odd and a fun watch:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKjfbzUHYvg[/youtube]

Weird shit is happening now, that is certain to me. Weird, high technological manipulations of human nature.
So I figured lets just address this, lightly.

What would you do, if you were in command of an alien invasion force from say, around Aldebaran, and tasked with making the human species docile to prepare for an eventual takeover or perhaps simply, peaceful cohabitation.

Thats also something to consider. Maybe they want to be here with us, peacefully, but we were too hostile and aggressive when they arrived.

[surreptitious75]

As this is a hypothethical question where the only limitation is imagination then I will push it as far as I can and also to restore your faith in the human mind
This intelligent species by virtue of having arrived here will be many orders of magnitude more advanced than we are for what they can do will be beyond us
So they may have the capability to change global consciousness through exposure to benign nano technology which will eventually result in universal altruism
Therefore instead of being individualistic we will be a unified collective working for a greater good like bees or ants but with a fundamental moral foundation
The consequences of that are truly mind bending because universal altruism has never been attainable during human existence due to the problem of free will

[Tab]

Never seen that clip. Mind officially blown. The issue of UFOs and the whole caboodle of alien/human interaction I’ve somehow filed under ‘conspiracy theory mis-information whackos’ and just left it there. Never knew anyone so high up in officialdom had ever broached the subject.

Need to process.

[Tab]

What would you do, if you were in command of an alien invasion force from say, around Aldebaran, and tasked with making the human species docile to prepare for an eventual takeover or perhaps simply, peaceful cohabitation.

I never agreed really with the alien invasion idea, because I could never figure out what aliens would want us for. To even get to us, let alone project enough power far enough to conquer a planet, they would either already possess, or have easy access to anything they could ever want. The universe is full of resources, it’s just a logistics problem. If the resources were things only ‘naturally’ occuring on planets that have had a long term functioning ecosystems - ie. fossil fuels lol - despite the irony of a space-faring species needing coal and oil, why wouldn’t they just synthesize them - it’s chemistry and energy, which they would already have in abundance. What’s left - Living space…? Asto-Naval bases…?

I dunno. So we are left with altruism I guess. Even we want to save the great apes.

So, how to save a planet without pushing them into global war…?

First they’d probably want to just deal with one planetary power. And maybe just one religion, or at least declaw religions in general.

So perhaps I buy the fostering of a ‘shadow global governing force’ bit. And it certainly looks like the Islamic middle-eastern nations are all slowly being knocked over, or bought out.

Another question is ‘why now…?’ If they’ve been around for 1000s of years, wouldn’t it have been much easier to step in earlier…? Before we’d wrecked the place and achieved the means to blow each other all to hell…?

[Tab]

Maybe an answer to ‘what they want’ and ‘why now’.

So they don’t want physical resources, living space, or presumably our women.

We’re almost certainly behind regarding technology. But that doesn’t necessarily mean we are behind on intelligence. Maybe the aliens have just been at it longer. Had one less extinction event in their planet’s history.

If you look at existence as a landscape, where instead of trees and lakes, there lie solutions to problems. And as a species, or as a universal collective of sentient intelligences, we explore this landscape probabalisticly, with varying degrees of randomness.

Easy problems are solved biologically, convergently, even octopuses have invented the elbow for example, despite a lack of joints or bones. Non-physical problems require brains, and humanity is looking like having 11 billion of them soonish, plus associated computing power.

In the universe, one resource is very scarce, true random. And so perhaps is intelligence.

Any particular species’ path through the solution-landscape as it progresses from sticks to fusion and beyond, will be coloured by its history of past discoveries. Its journey can only become less random over time. The problem of unknown unknowns is you never search for them. So your best chance of finding them is trying everything, and this is something a species would only do if it pretty much didn’t know very much about anything. A species like us, or at least us not so long ago.

So, as an alien, if you have a long enough attention span, any emergent intelligence would be worth keeping an eye on for either novel solutions to problems your species has aleady solved in a different way, or completely new solutions, possibly to problems you had never even considered.

This would also explain a policy of ‘look, but don’t interfere’, as an alien species wouldn’t want to disturb the intelligences they were observing’s ‘resource of randomness’. It would only become a necessity to step in overtly when that species looked like it was about to terminate itself. Like we are at the moment. Global warming being a thing etc.

[MagsJ (..a chic geek -all thoughts are my own-)]

Good posts Tab…

I hope this ‘big reveal’ happens within our lifetime, as we’re probably the living/breathing inhabitants that have collectively steered the planet to its current state, but why now indeed and what has enforced mass-migrations Westwards got to do with it?

There was a NASA broadcast aired on UK Terrestrial TV many years ago now… probably when you were still a UK resident, which was made by their top guy, saying pretty much the same things in that video, and he said it would be within our lifetime and that we would soon know the truth… probably why all the confidential UFO Sightings reports have been declassified, and then you get series like UFO Hunters and Ancient Aliens etc. then being allowed to be made and aired, in preparation for this ‘big reveal’.

On yesterday’s episode of Ancient Aliens, it was proposed that the Aliens who may have influenced and formed Earth are probably our distant relatives and that computer simulations show that we would evolve into the Greys over millennia. This could be why they have a vested interest in Earthly matters.

Fixed… a favourite topic of mine I would say, that the likelihood that they are related to us, would mean that whatever their agenda is, it would be unlikely to be a warring one. We have become physically weakened and almost hypnotised into a compliant trance-like state, but in advance of what? Or, perhaps it is the planet that is slowly choking us over time and causing this mass torpor… either way, I want to know already… I’ve been waiting my whole lifetime for this/from since I was a kid.

[Tab]

Thnx mags - I like this topic too.

I hope this ‘big reveal’ happens within our lifetime

Me too, they’ve got thirty years more to get their alien shit together.

There was a NASA broadcast aired on UK Terrestrial TV many years ago now…

never saw that, the last decade has been busy though for me. And the tv here is kinda erm, ‘narrow in scope’ is a nice way to put it. Getting better now though slightly.

Aliens [snip] are probably our distant relatives.

I believe this too, not because I think they are actually long-lost cousins but because of convergent evolution. Our shape, size, way of thinking, way of persisting (reproducing) etc. are all good biologic/sociologic solutions to the problem of becoming a dominant (and eventually space-going) lifeform. I think any alien lifeforms we ever meet will be more like us than not like us.

[Meno2 (Meno_)]

youtu.be/WI4D2yH4f5U

But seriously, there is a strain of sado masochism inherent in Man, and the Orson Wells’ created panic attack by Mars shows the less then benign aspect of human other world expectations.

[Fixed_Cross]

@surreptitious75

As this is a hypothethical question where the only limitation is imagination then I will push it as far as I can and also to restore your faith in the human mind
This intelligent species by virtue of having arrived here will be many orders of magnitude more advanced than we are for what they can do will be beyond us
So they may have the capability to change global consciousness through exposure to benign nano technology which will eventually result in universal altruism
Therefore instead of being individualistic we will be a unified collective working for a greater good like bees or ants but with a fundamental moral foundation
The consequences of that are truly mind bending because universal altruism has never been attainable during human existence due to the problem of free will

Dude that sounds horrible to me, though I agree that this is what is being done. I hate hive-being. I cant exist in it. Im not the type for it and thence Ive been excluded from every collective I was ever part of, even fired from work that I created.

To me, the human is an individual foremost, and that is the glory of being itself. Individuation. Unadaptedness. And Im early certain that only an individual s capable of holding morality, which begins with responsibility. Agency. A group has no such thing.

[Fixed_Cross]

Yeah I needed some time to adapt to the information as well when I came across it. A Spaniard showed it to me I the middle of the scorching planes around Madrid. I don’t know why I would add this information but I like physical context.

@Tab

Maybe an answer to ‘what they want’ and ‘why now’.

So they don’t want physical resources, living space, or presumably our women.

You might not be far off there man. It would surely be a good reason these days.
And there are myths of angels coming down to Earth for the daughters of men.

We’re almost certainly behind regarding technology. But that doesn’t necessarily mean we are behind on intelligence. Maybe the aliens have just been at it longer. Had one less extinction event in their planet’s history.

By definition we are behind any space force the has come from another inhabitable planet. We cant even decently go to Pluto.
Either they travel much faster than light, or just live overlong, perhaps frozen like Han Solo, or they know how to teleport or time travel. But I guess traveling faster than light would amount to both of these.

If you look at existence as a landscape, where instead of trees and lakes, there lie solutions to problems. And as a species, or as a universal collective of sentient intelligences, we explore this landscape probabalisticly, with varying degrees of randomness.

Easy problems are solved biologically, convergently, even octopuses have invented the elbow for example, despite a lack of joints or bones. Non-physical problems require brains, and humanity is looking like having 11 billion of them soonish, plus associated computing power.

In the universe, one resource is very scarce, true random. And so perhaps is intelligence.

Id find it more plausible that they’d be here for our women than for our brain-power. But I guess I should not be cynical and entertain this possibility too.
And also, the video talks of different species of them with very different characters. They would have different aims.

As far as processing power goes, would you agree with surreptitious that it would be an advantage for us to be forged into a hive-mind?
I have observed very few to no intellectual power emerging from hives, and all impressive feats of the mind seem to be coming form individuals, mostly those who have lived in isolation.

Any particular species’ path through the solution-landscape as it progresses from sticks to fusion and beyond, will be coloured by its history of past discoveries. Its journey can only become less random over time. The problem of unknown unknowns is you never search for them. So your best chance of finding them is trying everything, and this is something a species would only do if it pretty much didn’t know very much about anything. A species like us, or at least us not so long ago.

So, as an alien, if you have a long enough attention span, any emergent intelligence would be worth keeping an eye on for either novel solutions to problems your species has aleady solved in a different way, or completely new solutions, possibly to problems you had never even considered.

This would also explain a policy of ‘look, but don’t interfere’, as an alien species wouldn’t want to disturb the intelligences they were observing’s ‘resource of randomness’. It would only become a necessity to step in overtly when that species looked like it was about to terminate itself. Like we are at the moment. Global warming being a thing etc.

Your main point here, I agree with - If they’re out there lurking, they’re likely observing our consciousness evolve, and prodding it here and there.
Right now, and I guess politics does come in here, theyd be heating up the soup to see what reactions occur.

Im not personally too enthused about the reactions that do occur – one the other hand I’m no hovering above the theatre fed by a trillion monitoring devices. I have very little oversight on whats “truly” happening. For all the craziness that going on (and I just deleted a piece of text on politics to keep the craziness out of here) it might be seen as a kind of Ur-soup that is being prepared for new forms of consciousness to spontaneously come about.

[Fixed_Cross]

@Meno_

https://youtu.be/WI4D2yH4f5U

I was in a cheap hotel in Damascus once and in the main room, they were watching his film.
So a bunch of Syrians are sitting there, staring at the screen, not understanding it at all. They had no idea what was being meant as a joke or not. They were just like, when are the Americans going to begin shooting?

[Tab]

as far as processing power goes, would you agree with surreptitious that it would be an advantage for us to be forged into a hive-mind?

Hey Fixed,

Nah, I don’t think we need to, we already have some qualities of being a hive mind anyway - people working/thinking/researching the same problems separated by distance but connected through the internet, pooling results and incites.

I think I remember reading that in the time of Newton one person could ‘know’ everything the human race had discovered so far about science, but that time is long past and one of the problems faced today is simply the huge amount of published material on everything under the sun, (and the sun). Cross-discipline problems, which is now I guess most problems, require a lot better means of searching through already existent research for connections to whatever someone is working on. Standardization of papers, transparency of research, a central archive, and good search algorithms would go a long way to giving us hive-mind like advantages without glomming a lot of people’s heads together.

Hive minds also suffer from a lack of randomness, ‘exposure to serendipity’ or whatever you want to call it. Let’s say you have a 100 people in a search party at night with torches, combing a forest for a lost child. Kid’s unconscious. With a hive mind, 100 bodies linked to one will, all shining their torches at one area as they move in lockstep, the chance of them finding the lost child diminish, though their search of that single area will be of a much higher resolution. With 100 self-willed people connected only by voice with 100 torches pointed in all directions as they stumble and listen and follow hunches and remember things about the forest that maybe only they would know, the chances go up, though their searches of those multiple areas will be much more perfunctory than the hive mind’s singluar focus.

Hive minds would be better at some tasks, conventional minds better at others.

[Fixed_Cross]

I agree with that.

Serendipity, genius, important things leave traces as subtle as the order in the dew drops in the electrical field just before sunrise, a man must be crazy to even hope to catch them.

Most impressive things were invented so the inventing hyman could be impressed with himself. Only incidentally, this serves to impress mates sometimes, only incidentally does it lead to social status.

[MagsJ (..a chic geek -all thoughts are my own-)]

The Alien political discussion,
is being had as we speak…
the main agenda item being,
should they attend clothed or unclothed.

[Fixed_Cross]

Yes, thats what one would expect when things are beginning to get serious, the true presence, whats that like?
And humorously is the way to brave the first close encounters.

Has a consensus been reached?
I suppose people were bothered by the usual nakedness of the depicted travellers. Im trying to picture them in various outfits. I think Ferrari-yellow racing gear would be pretty nice. I cant see them in shirt and tie.

[Fixed_Cross]

They should wear bling.

Id want to see what kind of jewelry an alien representer comes out with. It says a lot about why one would be of a species - the way they self-ornament.

[perpetualburn]

@Fixed Cross

What if aliens are out there, like, in the sky above us right now, and they’re accumulating control of the planet, through government contacts. What would they be doing?

Incoherent question. But only because there’s no knowledge I have about this, I am only speculating, half jokingly, half mockingly, but wholly curious.

What I notice is that the powers of the human mind, and with that, of the human spirit, will, are in rapid decline. Even here, people actively object to substantive theses, are approaching high literacy as if it is an insult to their very being, and in the world “out there” it is ten times worse.

But more than that, I feel a level of powerlessness, of slavish surrender, in the western world. In the alien scenario, it could be that this weakness is being engineered.

Ah hell Im just talking here. But since I saw that Canadian military man a few years back talk about how aliens, various sorts of them, have been around here meddling, its always somewhere in the back of my mind that it might even be true.

For if you never took notice, its pretty odd and a fun watch:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKjfbzUHYvg[/youtube]

Weird shit is happening now, that is certain to me. Weird, high technological manipulations of human nature.
So I figured lets just address this, lightly.

What would you do, if you were in command of an alien invasion force from say, around Aldebaran, and tasked with making the human species docile to prepare for an eventual takeover or perhaps simply, peaceful cohabitation.

Thats also something to consider. Maybe they want to be here with us, peacefully, but we were too hostile and aggressive when they arrived.

Or maybe that’s what the left feels tasked with, so they can get in good with the aliens when the eventual takeover happens. Or maybe they’re doing the unwitting bidding of this alien force, thinking they will hold the reins once humanity is finally subjugated globally to their Egyptian-style hierarchy as you call it.

In a similar vein, if we ever manage to rip a hole in the fabric of space-time, unleashing all sorts of devils from a nearby hell dimension, will the gods finally show up? Or do the gods only show up in dreams?

[Fixed_Cross]

Gods are always here. Its a human spirit which needs to show up to them.

[MagsJ (..a chic geek -all thoughts are my own-)]

@Fixed Cross

Yes, thats what one would expect when things are beginning to get serious, the true presence, whats that like?
And humorously is the way to brave the first close encounters.

Has a consensus been reached?
I suppose people were bothered by the usual nakedness of the depicted travellers. Im trying to picture them in various outfits. I think Ferrari-yellow racing gear would be pretty nice. I cant see them in shirt and tie.

I envision boilersuits, Ferrari-yellow or otherwise. The Greys are always depicted unclothed, which means they must be highly non self-aware and probably genderless… reproduction being 100% lab-based.

@Fixed Cross

They should wear bling.

Id want to see what kind of jewelry an alien representer comes out with. It says a lot about why one would be of a species - the way they self-ornament.

Lol… do you think they would? I doubt they would, and even pomp and ceremony would be a thing of the very distant-past, as well as humour, they would be humourless… all the fun and feels sucked right outta them through breeding programmes. So then what would be the point of that life, if their objective is not one of hedonism… to any degree?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfdtiLx1364[/youtube]

[Tab]

Why would you expect that…?

I’d expect they would wear whatever they felt would further their agenda. I’m an alien everytime I walk into a classroom. Different face, skin colour, bone structure, belief, accent, syntax. 30 year age gap in experience, knowledge. I come from a place they’ve never been to, far away, a (at least in their minds) more advanced, more powerful civilization… I don’t walk in nude, or in classic monty python bowler hat, funny walk and umbrella.

They’d dress for their audience just as I do, clean jeans and a decent shirt with the sleeves rolled up.