No… I enjoy living in our hypocritical age of unreason.
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07.04.06.1360 INDEPENDENCE BITCHES!
Two-hundred and thirty years ago, thirteen colonies got off their knees and shouted to the rest of the world: “We’re not gonna take it; no, we ain’t gonna take it; we’re not gonna take it… anymore!” Thus was born a unified nation that stood as an omen of change for the world that spawned it!
Yet, I am sad on this day of my country’s birthday, for I have sought to see through the eyes of my founding fathers; Jefferson and Paine most of all, in an effort to retain a feel of the country they formed and envisioned. I am sad, because through their eyes, this country has become that which they most discouraged; that which they bled and fought against; that which inspired them to envision the free world.
Gather here, my fellow Americans, and join me in bringing to the world once more the Old America, while ridding the world of the New.
The French had a revolution and look how that turned out.
(I mean the Terror and Napoleon and all that shit, don’t get offended any of you French guys. You guys make great movies.)
That’s a common misunderstanding. If you look at the people that started up this nation, you would find that although they controversially contradicted themselves by owning slaves, they still advocated against it. Thomas Paine was the strongest voice against slavery at the time and an essay of his in 1775 led to the Gradual Abolition Act of 1780 in Pennsylvania; effectively freeing slaves in at least one of the United States way before Lincoln. The Colonial America was plagued by slavery but it was on the right track to ridding it.
Such things would have been destined to come if the Old America was here today. I think you’re missing the point of what I’ve been getting at. The difference between the Old and New America has nothing to do with physicality. It’s all about politics, economics, and the definition of freedom. These are intagible things that were unconstitutionally altered.
Again… you seem to only be looking at this from a physical point of view. Perhaps you may never be able to look through their eyes… but I have.
Hum, the USA of old was ruled by the wealthiest, land owning, white males. The founders did not really trust each other, but especially did not trust the “unwashed” masses. For insight, there are some great bios regarding Jefferson, Franklin, Adams, and Hamilton. Remember, we had slavery too. Not all was sunshine and light in the beginning.
I don’t understand why I’ve met such a rebuttal. Perhaps I have such an esteemed vision of what America should and could be that I’ve been blinded beyond doubt?
So the Old America wasn’t very nice… I know that. I’m not going to ignore the sad fact. It is true that Thomas Paine later resented Washington for allowing him to languish in a prison during the French Revolution. The Federalists and Republicans didn’t exactly get along… I know. So why did I make this thread? Is it so much to ask to take one day out of the year to at least dream about what should be… what could be?
Excuse me for feeling patriotic.
Excuse me for wanting to believe in a romantic dream.
Thanks for stepping on my pride. [Pardon my sarcasm.]
Sage, I too am a patriot. The Stars and Stripes are flying outside at this moment. However, I am a realist regarding our founders. I especially like Franklin. Sure, they had faults, but who does not.
Hum, remember the Revolutionary War was fought by the colonists as colonian Englishmen fighting for their rights, which Georgie denied them.
Again, super patriot here, just not blind. You will probably enjoy The First American and 1776, both have rave reviews. I loved the former, and haven’t got my hands on the latter yet.
You are right, I misspoke, it was Harding. Damn, why on earth did I think it was TR when he went after big business and was a conservationist. Temporary insanity on my part Peter.
The negaitive-romanticism of so called realism is no less of a fantasy than the positive-romanticism of idealism. Descriptions are temporary and always open for future review.
Facts baby, only the facts. Sure, the ideals are great, we often try to live up to them, our founders simply were realists and understood human nature much better than many on this board. Read their journals and letters for insight. Franklin had a problem with German immigrants not assimilating, but he held Native Americans in high esteem, often higher than European culture.
I’m afraid I agree with both Aspacia and Xander. Ideals drive to action while facts temper that action. It’s all about balance, without it thine folly is assured.
There are times to question the very idea of a common human nature. Maybe there isn’t some single common way of being. I would point towards the idea that humans are and ought to be diverse. There are plenty of different ways to lead a satisfying and successful life. There are many human essences.
Calling a bit of information a fact is a method of privileging it. Facts aren’t absolute. Facts aren’t final. Facts endure for a time, but not forever. Our facts will fade away with our civilization.
We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their Creator, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
Why does nobody understand that the old America that Sagesound is talking about is the romantacized, nostalgic, IMAGE, not physical representation where we focus on the bad more than the good, but THE IMAGE. It’s like I wish I could have been like Patton only living in to the nostalgic 50’s. I wish I were a kick-ass general who went to the Virginia Military Institute, served in WWI and WWII. But! I didn’t die in '45 and I went on to serve as a General in Korea, did some more ass kicking. Retired, and settled down. Dieing before the goddamn hippies perverted America.
