Almost every religion, no matter how simple or complex, assumes some sort of life after death. Other than wishful thinking, why? There is absolutely no evidence of such a thing despite all the projections of ‘spirits’ and minute descriptions of what awaits in heaven or hell. Is it the fear of death that inspires the myth? What is it that refuses to let us simply say, “I don’t know.” ??
Religion has often been described as “Man’s quest for immortality”. If we take that as an acceptable reason for religion, well, the question answers itself.
Though I would suggest that the emphasis on the world after death is a more modern invention. Most ancient religions (Greek, Chinese, Norse, even Jewish) had a rather ill-defined concept of an afterlife. I think that this rule of thumb applies fairly effectively to most orthopraxic religions that the afterlife is de-emphasized simply because it isn’t really all that important. Now, in an orthodoxic religion (Christianity and Buddhism being the two biggest heavy-hitters in this area) belief in an afterlife is stressed but, again, that makes sense since orthodoxic religions depend on the beliefs of the practitioners. If they just sprouted common-sense stuff, well, there wouldn’t be any controversy and nothing to separate the believers from the non-believers. In short, they wouldn’t have a religion at all!
Hey Xunz,
Is that a prescription for a better world, or just wishful thinking? ![]()
Well, there would still be orthopraxic religions and, on the whole, I’d say that orthopraxic religions tend to be a whole lot more racist than orthodoxic religions. There is something to be said for a community of believers (which is an open group) as opposed to other communities based on shared blood and tribal allegiances.
And how is communion different than tribal alliance? Orthopraxic or orthodox, both rely on exclusivism to sutain themselves, the better to insure that they are are the “right” side in the quest for an illusory afterlife.
Again, I would stress that orthopraxic religions don’t really have much of an afterlife. They are generally better for other reasons (like everybody else being barbarians who can’t talk, they just go bababababa).
As for exclusivity, that has always been an element of the human condition. You don’t need religion for that! For example, the Romans clearly had an orthopraxic religion and they clearly thought that other gods, such as those of Gaul, were the same as Roman gods. But that didn’t stop them from assuming their own innate superiority to other peoples (with notions like Romanitas). Religion is one of the many ways people divide themselves, it doesn’t have anything resembling a monopoly on this issue and even if we were to completely remove this element from religion I imagine people would still find things to kill each other over and ways to separate ins from outs. That doesn’t excuse religion’s lamentable history in this particular area, but focusing on religion doesn’t really make sense either.
I mean, let’s suppose we nationalized the petroleum industry. Now, that solves the problem of the capitalists in Big Oil having undue influence over our government, but there are plenty of other special interest groups that will fill that void quite quickly.
This is a problem that needs to be attacked at the root rather than merely suggesting that some branches be trimmed.
I might go as far to say almost every religion that exists is founded on the idea of an afterlife. Quite a mouthful, I know, and I don’t plan to back it up here really but it is my suspicion that behind religions’ constructed and elaborate texts and convoluted doctrines, at the core of it all is the inability to cope with the thought of death. That’s what makes the belief in it so strong and attractive, because the fear is also just as great and repulsive.
Give this a thought for a second; humans dislike the thought of death (naturally) and so refuse to count themselves in under its scythe which is, strangely enough, admittedly master of everything else. “We don’t have to die simply because we can give it more thought than another creature. A second life! And another after that! And another!” How conceded…
But you’re right, when it comes down to it, anybody’s word on the afterlife is speculation.
Your observation makes the point that belief in an after-life is a cross-cultural phenomenon.
“Absolutely” is a bit strong. After all Wordsworth had his “intimations of immortality.” People do report uncanny experiences after being clinically dead. And then there are the ghost stories.
Fear of death no doubt plays a role in the abiding fascination people have with the topic. Another factor is the desire for ultimate justice.
If only your body stops working, how can it be an afterlife when you still exist? You are the life, not your body, it is just a shell for you. Heck a car stops working not us. A body is merely a vehicle. Vehicles wear out. So there is no afterlife there is just life, if you believe or know.
Yes, that’s true.
By believing in an afterlife, is it not inevitable that we cheapen or lessen the significance of this life?
Would suicide bombers be quite so eager to blow themselves (and the innocents around them, as well) into bloody scraps if they believed this life was all there would ever be for them?
Possibly yes, but for most of them probably no.
How would believing in an after life cheapen this life?
The example you gave they died for their people…their country. To them it was an honorable thing to do, for this life.
Explain please how you came to that deduction.
Does anything not come under the heading, “Wishful Thinking”?
Those who don´t believe in the afterlife can´t be charged with wishful thinking (exluding suicidal non-believers). Then again, it depends on what kind of afterlife you envisage. It´s hardly a coincidence that all after-life believers construct the best possible type of “existence”. Who would willingly rationalise themselves into Hell?
Increased supply always drives down price.
If I own one classic porsche, I will probably drive it a bit more carefully than if I own ten.
. . . and, if you were a bit more candid you would also add, for their religion.
But I didn’t give a specific example, did I?
If you insist on a particular example though then let’s do this one: Is it your opinion that no Islamic martyr (just to pick one nutty group) actually believes that he will be rewarded with eternal life upon blowing himself and the innocent people around him to smithereens?
I believe I just did.
Hi Xunz,
Agreed. Humans owe much of their sentience to refined abilities to discriminate, but religion certainly makes it easy and increases the magnitude of saved-damned belief.
I suspect that no small part of the almost ‘universal’ belief in an afterlife is that it is untouchable by human intervention. No-one, no-thing can control the eventual destiny of “me”. You can kill me here, but I’ll go to a ‘better place’.
Of all human beliefs, the concept of an afterlife creates and controls so much human behavior and practice, that I never cease to be amazed that it isn’t challenged more often. It is almost as if it is the one giant “elephant in the room” for most of humanity.
felix,
I think in this case, absolutely can stand on its own. There are certainly all sorts of explanations offered to “prove” an afterlife. Some poetic, some superstition, (placating the ghosts of the departed) some in extremely elaborate detail such as we find in today’s major religions. There has been mention of the Islamic suicide bombers, but the inquisition could never have occurred without a belief in an afterlife.
The desire for ultimate justice is something I can wholeheartedly agree with. As I mentioned to Xunzian, the idea that “me” has a future untouchable by the happenings in this world is a powerful motivation behind such belief.
I would argue that an afterlife cheapens this one because it removes emphasis from it. First and foremost, it does so from a justice standpoint, like Felix was talking about. After all, if there is some judge later on, then what happens in the here-and-now is less important. It can both assuage guilt (there is literally an infinite amount of time to make amends and, more importantly, that amends shall be made is inevitable) and can weaken resolve (there will always be another chance). I think that such an ideology leads to a shrinking away from life rather than an embrace of it.
Furthermore, it presents this life as a sort of antechamber to the real deal. This is just a waiting room, so while away some time but it ultimately isn’t what is important, what is truly important is what comes next.
First bear with me on learning the ins and outs of posting on this board. Meaning the how to’s.
If you move past suicide bombers you used, what of people who would save another. Say if they saw someone drowning? Is it they charged into the waters to save another because they believe in another life? Or could it be they didn’t even stop to think and rationalize a afterlife, or their life at all. Was their life Cheapened?
What of firefighters? Using them as an example. Do they stop each time they go into a burning building? If they are doing this only for the thoughts of an afterlife, would it be the same as if it were just in their nature?
I think in this case, absolutely can stand on its own. There are certainly all sorts of explanations offered to “prove” an afterlife. Some poetic, some superstition, (placating the ghosts of the departed) some in extremely elaborate detail such as we find in today’s major religions.
Next time I come across verification of the after-life via controlled experimentation in a scientific journal, I’ll let you know. ![]()
I would argue that an afterlife cheapens this one because it removes emphasis from it. First and foremost, it does so from a justice standpoint, like Felix was talking about. After all, if there is some judge later on, then what happens in the here-and-now is less important. It can both assuage guilt (there is literally an infinite amount of time to make amends and, more importantly, that amends shall be made is inevitable) and can weaken resolve (there will always be another chance). I think that such an ideology leads to a shrinking away from life rather than an embrace of it.
Furthermore, it presents this life as a sort of antechamber to the real deal. This is just a waiting room, so while away some time but it ultimately isn’t what is important, what is truly important is what comes next.
But this assumes the precondition that the afterlife is the only thing that does matter.
While an afterlife may ‘cheapen’ this existence by removing it’s complete and absolute paramount nature (this is all you have) it doesn’t have to be a ‘waiting room’ in some sense. A lot of what you believe the afterlife is like can affect how you treat life.
Hi Xunz,
I can only agree that looking past this life to a supposed ‘better place’ takes away from our potential in the here and now. Not all after life beliefs create this problem. Buddhist believe that how we behave and care for this life may govern the conditions and qualities of reincarnation, and so a belief in an afterlife or re-birth can also be positive. BUT the vast majority of those in organized religion are assured of a second coming, or those deeds which will provide them front row seats at the next show. Indeed, many look at natural disasters and world violence as the ‘signs’ of the end of the world. They WANT the end of the world and they want it in their lifetime. And all of this based on a culturally instilled idea with no foundation beyond conjecture.
We is a strange animal if this is what passes for intelligence.
An Afterlife?.. NO! ![]()