The world becomes unreal only by those who have made the mistake of supposing that there is another world beyond the limit of expirience and of which the world as we know it in immediate expirience can be only a shadow.
In the very process of showing that we can have no knowledge of an external world but only of our own sensations perceiving it we have assumed that there is an eternal world and that we can have knowledge of it.
We assume the world is consistent, ordered and understandable.
An assumption: We assume that reality must be rationally explicable: must, that is, be ultimately rational and totally understandable.
Out of our various assumptions about the universe and cosmos our civilizations becomes the embodiement of such assumptions leading us into our own hyperrealities of assumption with the seperation of the outside world from us which is actual reality.
Is it possible that we are so obssesed with our own assumptions of existence altogether that through them we actually seperate ourselves from actual reality altogether?
Is it possible that by being so self absorbed through such assumptions our very assumptions become a simulated reality in the face of actual reality in existence?
What are assumptions? Forms of wishful thinking.
What is wishful thinking ? The art of lucid dreaming.
Yes, self delusion, is generally an option. Sometimes it’s even a useful tool people use to ‘get them through’ Difficult Times.
Not that I’m advocating continual or general usage - but there are situations where individuals legitimately use delusion like a temporary medication - rather like ‘compartmentalising’ to cope.
Not always… some people constantly make assumptions that are the complete opposite of what they might wish.
Other times there is very little thinking involved in assumption making…
I think I understand what joker is saying here. I think I agree in some ways.
I think it is wrong in philosophy to seperate our experience of the world from the world itself. To say that there is a reality beyond that which we experience is dualism. I don’t think our rational descriptions of the universe can ever fully describe the universe.
I don’t see how the world can be inconsistant though. What would this mean?
Also I don’t think that our creation of hyper realities such as society is a bad thing. I mean the terms good and Bad are part of the hyper reality any way. So even to say something is good just because it is reality and not an assuption is still to make the assumption that something is good and something is bad.
Yes and yes. But I think existence is more interesting that way. If we can always know that it is just a made up reality then we can always bend the rules.
Maybe we can run rings around those that still think their rational description of reality holds.
Part of my problem with rationality is the systemization of it where million of assumptions are built upon more assumptions where we call our imagined or fictitious construction of things real even where many of them are infact concocted delusions made to look real. ( More real than real.)
I really see no reason why one can’t call civilization, reason and rationality as the art or construction of delusion in reality seperate amongst itself.
I think that creation of these ‘hyper realities’ is natural. Evoloution led to the human condition. How else could they come about only the forces of nature existed before their creation. But then clearly you have to say that evrything that comes from these hyper realities is then in some sense ‘unatural’.
In comparison to all other biological organisms on earth.
Perhaps.
I believe religion was responsible for these hyperrealities not evolution or nature.
I think that if one is to call these hyperrealites natural one might as well call religion a natural inevitability followed by becoming a religionist praying to a imaginitive deity in the sky.
( Under such a statement one might as well call god natural and point upwards to his existence in heaven. )
Since I know all religion is absurd and believe that a omnipotent god in the sky watching all our activities is equally absurd unto being nonexistent I thus come to the conclusion that civilization which came to exist through the same absurdism is also a insane unnatural absurdity interfering with actuality by its many insane assumptions that it comes to rest on.
I think that religion came into existence via evolution. It was in the human races advantage to create it. But as soon as religion was created all that stemed from it was a hyper reality.
But what about science; this is a hyper reality too? But its not so absurbed. Its just an incomplete description of reality. One should not take it seriously but it is still useful. Although I except its only useful in creating what you describe as a disaster.
Being a pessimist doesn’t make you wrong. I think your logic is good your conclusions are also good but I think your reaction to your conclusions is a bit pessimistic.
Where science becomes a religion it stops being scientific. To me sciences says “I don’t know anything, I can never prove anything; all I can ever do is make descriptions of reality that seem to be accurate within certain limitations”. Science becomes religion when people start claiming that sciences proves thing or that science totally describes nature. Its just a description, but the description can be used to make planes, computers, space rockets nuclear bombs etc. whether these are good or bad is down to opinon.
I think to certain atheists science is becoming the new religion. I think this is due to a misunderstanding of what science is.
Maybe the same is/was true of religion. Maybe religion is just meant to give a description of the universe but not actually provide us with “the truth”. Its just that the marketing people for both science and religion who say this is the truth.
Words, numbers, symbols can only ever give a description of reality. If we take these descriptions to seriously we can as you say “actually seperate ourselves from actual reality altogether”.
True reality comes from the experience of world directly through our senses.
I’m currently trying to formulate a question…I don’t know the answer to the question…I can’t even pose the question…I’ll try.
If the reality of our experience is an illusion and we are just matter the same as all matter in the universe responding to the forces of nature is one not then forced to assume:
a) the mind which is experiencing the universe is seperate to the physical brain/body…dualism
or
b) All matter/ energy is an illusion and true reality is ‘behind’ this illusion…again a strange dualism
To me there is only reality as we experience it and thats it. Everything else is a description of that experience. Otherwise we seem to be forced into dualism which for me is unsatisfactory.
I think dualism is the result of us taking our descriptions of what we experience more seriously than the experience itself.
)