''Bad boy, RichardDawkins.net, bad boy!''

I recently encountered the RichardDawkins.net people or otherwise known as the I’d-perform-oral-sex-on-myself-but-it-could-cause-a-chronic-back-problem-so-I’ll just-have-to-do-by-being-condescending-and-in-no-way-helpful…um…people.

Seriously, though, have they missed the point?
I am an atheist and irreligious, and the problems I have with religion are the negative aspects of their dogma.

Religion has many positive aspects, but these are counter-acted by the vastly more numerous negative aspects of their dogma, i won’t go into it, you are all aware of them.

The lovely people at RichardDawkins seem to have forgotten that this is why we must remove religion. These people are giving bad names to atheists with their condescending and patronising attitude to believers. This can only make the religious fall back even more on their religious beliefs.

If you are unfamiliar with RichardDawkins or need a reminder as to their self-importance go to their web-site:

RichardDawkins.net
and be welcomed by the pious followers of Richie.

Are you reprimanding the intelligent for being proud of their intelligence or do you have some cultural standard of civility you adhere to and they break with their condescending remarks?

It seems to me that stupidity has been given a free ride for far too long and humoring absurdity on the grounds that everyone has the right to their opinions or that it isn’t right to treat people badly has given the absurd this false notion of relevance.

You offer a child undue respect by giving them the impression that their belief in fairytales doesn’t paint them as naive and gullible or that their fairytale beliefs are just as respectable as any other belief and you plant a seed of complacency and stagnation.

It’s time to disallow these retarded minds from portraying themselves as anything other than what they are: desperate, fearful, needy, childish minds hanging on to a delusion because it offers them relief.

Thank you, I thought I was the only Richard Dawkins-hatin’ atheist.

The whole point of atheism, at least in my opinion, is to oppose militancy, not promote it. It totally misrepresents atheism on a whole. Every time I proclaim that I’m an atheist, militant theist assholes jump down my throat with a whole accusative spiel about the evil Richard Dawkins. The only decent book he’s ever written was The Selfish Gene and that wasn’t even with regards to theism.

He should just stick to biology or whatever the hell it is he does.

I’ll agree with the gist of the thread here. It isn’t that Dawkins is wrong but rather that his methology is wrong. Replacing exclusivist, dogmatic theism with exclusivist, dogmatic atheism does no one any good – especially when said atheism is “herding cats” as Dawkins has described it so it even lacks the social cohesion of theism. As an American, I’ll say that the Religious Right and associated organizations in America are twelve kinds of wrong, but replacing them with the “Areligious Right” does not solve the problem at all and that is all Dawkins offers.

I appreciate that he is out there encouraging people to think about these issues, it’s just a pity that he himself hasn’t thought much of what he has said through. He is an atheist counter to the likes of Falwell, Buchanan, and other nut-jobs. I am sure that for Christians, nut-jobs like that allow for a very good starting point to start thinking about their faith (as opposed to taking it for granted) and Dawkins offers a similar avenue for atheists, but mistaking the beginning for the totality of a process is a terrible thing indeed.

Xunz,

You’ll like this one:

youtube.com/watch?v=zaKryi3605g

Indeed, his dogmatism almost crosses into religiosity.

And to dip my toe in ad hominem waters, his sycophants tend to be pubescent pseudo-intellectuals, the kids with bum-fluff beards, anarchy t-shirts, plastic lensed geeky glasses donning The God Delusion as their bible replacement bus-ride prop.

Pop them a few questions, wait ten minutes & Voila! …

you’ll get an outraged ‘just because’.

(I am, by the bye, an agnostic with atheistic proclivities)

So, he’s an atheist. That’s neat and everything, but just being an atheist doesn’t justify doing anything about it. Atheism isn’t a religion with all ritualistic or moral demands it makes upon the ‘adherent’. Richard Dawkins could be an atheist and a biologist, or an atheist and a used car salesman, or all sorts of things, and we’d never have to know what he thinks of God. Bertrand Russell never issued a Great Commission that I am aware of, and even if he did, nobody has any obligation to listen.
But somewhere Dawkins made this leap and turned atheism into some giant cause that he has to get all excited about. Now, maybe he’s right about that and maybe he’s not. But if he’s right, it’s not because atheism entails his fervor. It’s not because biology or the other physical sciences entail it. No, his reason for finding the Issue of Atheism (or indeed, any other issue) as important as he does has to be grounded in something else, and I don’t think talking about those sorts of something else’s has been shown to be his strong suit. So, no wonder then that many people who agree with his raw points disagree with the application of his passions.

That just goes over my head. Atheism is nothing other than exclusivistic. If it were to include anything, it would be called that something else instead of atheism. And I don’t get how one could be dogmatic in not holding dear an idea.

Are all grownups exclusivist, dogmatic asantaclausians?

Not the ones who tell their children he exists, I suppose.

Virtually all of even that group of grownups are ‘a-santaclaus-ists.’ Promoting a belief in something (i.e., a parent telling his child to be good because Santa is watching) does not necessarily mean the person who promotes the belief has a belief himself in the external reality of the putative object of the belief that he is promoting.

What is the extremist message that Dawkins preaches that scares everyone so anyway? Is it the one in which he insists that we should have good evidence for the things that we believe exist in external reality before we should expect anyone else to take our beliefs seriously?

I’m with Erlir on this one, I don’t get it either. How some people can hear Jerry Falwell say “God deservedly punished America on 9/11 for its profligate ways,” then hear Richard Dawkins say “Where is your evidence for that belief?” and then somehow believe that those two statements are roughly equivalent in terms of what they say about the world is puzzling to say the least.

He does it for the money

What a bunch of bullshit I see posted in this thread.

God forbid that a rational thinker shows any passion and fights fire with fire.

I think it’s one of those intellectual myths that mistakes aloofness for objectivity or that plays the part of someone taking the ‘high road’ in intellectual discourse when they offer an unwarranted respect to any opinion, no matter how pathetic or absurd.

Many in the west, living in this cocooned environment forget that these absurdities religions base their dogmas on are responsible for human suffering and the stifling of rational thought.
It is these minds, taken by childishness, which can then sacrifice themselves and the world in the name of a delusion.

To stand idly by, with this air of aloofness, humoring this tripe that infects humanity is dangerous.
Many do not recognize the dangers because they don’t have to face the results but only read them in newspapers or watch them on the television.

We’ve allowed stupidity such leeway that it not presents its products as alternative scientific theories, forcing its self into classrooms where young impressionable minds will be raised with the false insinuation that Creationism is no different than Evolution Theory.

It is time to cleanse ourselves from this cultural bias that associates pride with a vice and that teaches the unproductive practice of remaining unmoved so as to pretend to be a deep thinker or that connects the arrogance of an untested idiot with that of a thinking mind.

This distaste for a style that pronounces its superiority honestly is a product of Christian ethics and social rules that prevent any exhibitions that hurt or belittle others, no matter how much they deserve it.

I’ve read most of Dawkins and about the only thing I find him guilty of is his staunch unwillingness to accept less than rationality in any discussion of a God/Creator. For this he is just being a spoilsport meanie. A refusal to give religion a bye doesn’t make him wrong. I have yet to see where any theologian has answered his blunt sharp questions without wandering off into faith. And speaking of faith, why not include Sam Harris in this dust up? Harris is saying basically the same thing, isn’t he?

The only thing different about Dawkins and Harris is that they refuse to remain silent when confronted with the irrationality of religion.

Silence is a form of absentee consent, and religion has enjoyed silence from the dissenters far too long. That the theists get their feelings hurt when challenged is almost amusing. That Dawkins or Harris would encourage the “cats” to get organized to challenge the likes of Falwell, Robertson, and their ilk may make the religious right uncomfortable, but tough beans. Religion has had the easy ride for far too long.

I see Dawkins as an intermediary step in a direction that takes us into uncharted territory. Either religion finds ways to quell it’s own militancy or it will have to give way to better answers to help people with their pragmatic lives.

Has anyone seen the ironic parallel between Dawkins and Martin Luther? :astonished:

A lot of my objections to Dawkins are contained in this thread. Here is the OP, with emphasis added:

The closest parallel that I can think of is Bush and his rhetoric on the Middle East. If for the moment we give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he actually doesn’t want to eliminate Islam, he has done a very good job of convincing Muslims all over the world that the destruction of their faith and their way of life is what he wants. This makes diplomacy understandably difficult and furthermore, it ends up recruiting and galvanizing more opponents to the real objective he seeks to achieve. Perhaps I am naive in my view on human nature, but I don’t think it has come to the point in the culture war that religion need be extinguished entirely. It merely needs to have its influence relegated to a proper sphere. In that way I think he is fulfilling the same role as pop-Christian windbags like the people heading the Religious Right. I think meeting the Christians in the middle is an easier way to keep them and their nonsense out of the classroom. Look at Dover, the majority of people are a lot more moderate than the situation would have you believe. However, as long as Christians feel their faith is threatened by evolution and science in general, they will try harder and harder to push more of their nonsense onto us. Dawkins does nothing to assuage these fears, indeed he actively seeks to promote them.

I also have a problem with Dawkins on a philosophical level, since he claims to take a materialistic stance but then employs an idea-driven model of history. I don’t much care for that dissonance.

Exactly. Athiesm isn’t a religion.

Dawkins would say the onice is on you. He doesn’t have to justify anything, as he has a lack of belief.

Dawkins…

the weirdest looking man I’ve seen in my life. His accent is cute, though.

Let’s run with the Santa Claus idea for a second. As you’ve said, we can pretty much say that every rational adult does not believe in Santa Claus. Despite this, many adults teach their children about Santa Claus: there is some value that is placed on this belief that is separate from its validity. Likewise in basic chemistry courses, the acid-base chemistry that they teach you is often entirely wrong, but since it works in simple situations it is “good enough” for the moment, again having a value that is independent of its actual relationship to the truth.

“Hello, I’ve come to eat your brains out” Much?

Hmm, what value is there but a waste of time and a relearning process?