What’s your comment on this? What does it take to become a woman?
It could mean a lot of things. Personally, I don’t find a distinction between girl, female, or women. To me, the only use the word ‘women’ has would be to mean a women beyond the age of 18. But I would not hold anything else to it. Too many people draw distinction between age. I think people see your quote to either mean, that a person has to grow up (age) in order to become a women. Some others may see it as the whole sex thing, you know a person who has had sex once becomes a women. Or there are also those who don’t see themselves as a women until they have given birth to a child. I don’t think any of these to be a good ‘judgement’ on a person. I think the age thing comes closest, but even that has a big grey area - if we draw the line at 18, how do we differentiate a 17 and an 18 year old? Do all girls become women at 18? Some might mature at 14, some 16, some 18, and unfortunately there are those who don’t mature till 25 or at all. This is the same for guys ofcourse, but the topic at hand is women. I just wanna emphasis this so no one goes around saying that I am a male shovenist pig.
What’s your take?
what about being a man?
I don’t think the point is about when a girl becomes a women, but about if there are any psychological differences between men and women when they are born. For example; a girl start to play with dolls while a boy start to play with cars just because they are brought up this way by society and parents. One of the feminist branches tell us that those psychological differences are not something we are born with but it’s being learned. Another branch tell us that there is a small difference but society make it “worse”.
This is not one of my major fields, but my current my opinion is: There are differences between boys and girls from birth, but those differences are also increased by society. You can never say that an individual must follow any genes that they are supposed to be born with. Every individual is unique and must follow their own nature; and the nature changes over time by doing so. The differences between men and women start to get smaller, and this will also have effect on future genes. Genes have effect on our psychological behavior, but our psychological behavior also effect our genes. Every individual must find out their individual setup of genes and possibilities, and if it turns out that a boy want to play with dolls it is OK. The best thing a parent can do is to offer variety. Limitations should not be set where those only concern the individual. This is ofcource very idealistic and such children may have problems later in their life. But those problem does not reside inside the effected individual. I were brought up to become a strong individual. I were hated in school and never found a place in society. Today I have the intellectual tools to see that it’s not me that have those problems but it’s the social patterns in the society that are wrong.
Johan
what does it take and more of what does it mean to be human.
is that not the question,
that questions this,
what you suggest,
does not dismiss,
that we are,
whats to be,
is it how you,
or is it how,
i see me,
for what remains
is its or is it not,
that it sames,
in some issue maybe,
that we are,
as human be,
where still sum ego cognitively,
is thinking thinking,
is that not philosophy?
it is and is not,
this and more,
of issues as such,
on such issues then touch,
theres hope in both,
philosophical issues and poetry.
least thats how it is to me.
where just i be,
in mind or body,
that question me,
or something more,
than a or p,
in relation consciously,
and again the question should be,
not of gender,
but as many did see,
what defines us humanly.
maybe this
maybe that,
one consideration is that,
its humour,
and in some way this agree.
yet to see a smile
on a face that smiles can,
that smiles in eyes,
and lips forthright,
can be at times,
seen in sight,
and even heard in every sound,
to every sense,
could sense a smile,
not matter how far,
the distance of mile,
we have and we are,
as yet still this to unravel.
and far beyond,
in thinking must go,
for what we are,
we just don’t know,
and issues as such,
complexing too much,
when should be,
really,
addressed on grounds of simplicity,
one step and one step
beyond.
yoda
hey, don’t all foetus begin their existance as female?
<<hey, don’t all foetus begin their existance as female?>>
I’m not familiar with this statements validity, yet what I could say is; that if this statement were true, then would it not then be, as it implicates being some male existance prior to be?
yoda
Without any context to place this statement in, I would assume that in the current state of this phrase Simone is commenting on the necessity of worldly experience before a female can be considered a “woman”.
Much like traditional concepts of a boy not being truly considered a man until he fixed his first car, or got his first real job, or owned some parcel of land.
a boy becomes a man and a girl becomes a woman when they claim responsability for their actions. When they put others before themselves no matter the consequence. When they stand against their fears. When they burden their first glipse is sour truth.
~JL
Johnny stated:
Somehow, from reading your last posts I don’t you realize the meaning of the wisdom above…
Try not to take someone who has an avatar of a pink bunny smiley face with a chain-saw too seriously.
I do mean well…and I think from post to post I tend to change perspectives depending on the way what I have just read moved me.
~JL
You can tell me to just go away all in all…ill understand…i get that alot.
Please don’t misunderstand Johnny, I don’t wish you to leave, I too have been understood to mean that too many times. I only wish to guide you along the right path, maybe that is pretentious of me, since it presumes I know what the right path is - but take it as my opinion and as long as we use logic and rationality to debate we should be able to come to some coherent conclusion and understanding as to what is the most beneficial path in whatever context we are talking.
If I can advert your attention to my posts in a different fashion, look at my responses as a compliment. The more I respond to your posts the more you can be assured that you have my attention and that you have made me think. Which is always inviting for me, even when I don’t like what the other person is saying. For it takes patience and creativity for me to show you the right way, and if I can’t then I may be wrong, or you may bring my attention to a new way of looking at things and show me that I am wrong so that I may correct my view in order to see the world in a clearer light. Either way you look at it, we both benefit.
What’s your take?
Dont either of us are wrong on our concepts…but they are intresting none the less…
I think on this particular post I simply responded to the initial question instead of reading through the entire post…I usually respond to things in quotes and not to the whole topic…kind of half assed…but im still new here…Ill figure a way too rub your ego the right way soon…lol.
~JL
That was funny, about the whole rubbing me ego the right way…somehow I don’t think you will figure it out, I’m a little more complex than the average guy.
I’m confused about something you said…
What does that mean?
I dont think either of us are wrong on our personal concepts of any topic.
I also dont think either of us are right
~JL
Stateing that someone will never figure something out is a tad shallow of you eh? Average guy eh? If I wasnt about to hit the pillow id get into my definition of “average” rant…another time perhaps.
I’m confused about something you said…
What does that mean?
[/quote]
You can’t take this quote and argue about it without context of de Beauvoir works. You need to know her concept of ‘woman’.
The Second Sex was released in 1953 and much of what she said can’t be taken in consideration nowadays. Funny enough, my friend who lives in France said that she didn’t expect French society to be so machist.
Now I’m not sure, but I think what Jonny was saying… or somewhat at least, is the difference between boys and men/girls and women is in attitude more then actual age and/or experiences. He said that ‘a boy becomes a man when he takes responsibility for his actions’ (or something along those lines). So maybe a woman is a girl with wisdom… (shrug)
I hope I followed you correctly, and apologize if I misunderstood. Truthfully I too am new here and am hard pressed to keep up with some of these new-age-Platos.
no, I think it’s the same thing–
A person(girl) becomes a woman when she takes
responsibility for her actions…same deal for both genders.
All of you are so respective and kind. Smart and funny… Quick witty.
Only if i came here 8 yrs ago.
I think when a girl becomes a women it isn`t about physical change but a mental one. How she sees herself in her minds eye and what truly matters to her.
She’s saying that gender is just culture, womanhood is just nurtured into place and not innate. I disagree. But as far as what it take to become a woman…you are an adult female not via medical intervention or even possibly via.