Can it all be put right!

Can it all be put right!

Lets imagine there is a heaven or other-side of some kind, can adversity, suffering and loss be reconciled?
Even if we forgave everything, does that actually change much apart from what we feel about each other. Equally there are many ways loved ones can be injured or taken away from us that where forgiveness isn’t relevant.

Then what’s your basis for righteousness? For your religion?

Define “right”. :laughing:

It can’t be made right because all of the pieces are moving around and we can’t control how or where they move.

I’m a little bit confused.

Does your question assume that in this heaven-like place there would be ongoing adversity, suffering, and loss that we would have to forgive?

Or are you asking if, once in this heaven-like place, we are able to forgive the wrongs done to us while in our physical bodies on earth?

Ni, I would assume no suffering [we wouldn’t have material bodies but spiritual ones] etc ~ heaven.

That would be part of the equation. Some things are beyond forgiveness e.g. how would one put things right if you had lost a lover and married again. Or if someone had caused a death, even forgiving them wouldn’t change the harm they had done, if say it had caused such a loss as the former loved one.

If one can hypothetically assume humility exist’s in heaven, then there is only one forgiveness: Forgiveness of one’s self. “Forgive me for I have sinned” Absolution.

It’s possible that it could all be put right yes. The universe is an unfolding story. It’s still in the process of coming into being. The future is open. Who knows that adversity suffering and loss cannot be reconciled?

Ah, if only people would see this.

I don’t think forgiveness is about changing the harm that’s been done, though. It’s about accepting that harm has been done and not allowing that harm to become the main theme of our lives. I maintain that forgiveness is rarely, if ever, for the wrongdoer. Rather, it’s a way for the victim to find peace.

What is unfolding in the universe will fold back on itself. I see heaven as the final reclamation of all that exists. The reclaiming will be the creations of God coming back to God.

Ier, what does that explain? What follows the re-folding?

Paradise. All is made right.

Do you mean paradise like heaven? Paradise for all God’s creatures? Or perhaps a divine singularity, as opposed to the chaotic void that preceded the creation?

Forgive me, i do not even know if you are Christian, so i’m just trying to understand . . .

I’m a pantheistic Christian. So, I would say yes to all of the questions.

Not to be coy, but instead I mean this earnestly:

Should they be?

Probably not because it is from my suffering that I can comprehend yours.

Expand that even more, though.
Imagine no human having sadness or anger; literally.

Then try to imagine what culture would look like.

I don’t know that I would look forward to that identity.

Of course then you wouldn’t have a need to understand his suffering if he didn’t have any.

We are trained to Think these things are necessary for our full sense of Life. I do question that. There are Always challenges, say in creating Beautiful works of art, but do we have to have enemies? I Think we are so used to thinking that without these things Life would be boring or less meaningful - and I really do mean we, including myself - that it seems like something would be missing. But how could we know. And given the freedom from awefulness, we could likely allow ourselves more passion for the things we like. Right now we spend a lot of energy suppressing our passions, interests, emotions because the World is so judgmental and dangerous. Hence so much of our Entertainment offers us vicarious outlets, and every plot must have adversity that causes suffering. From where we are, brainwashed and trained and out of sorts with our own drives, we really cannot judge ‘what it would be like’.
I have so much longing to see what it would be like.

I’m actually taking a step beyond that.
I’m not suggesting that we need these things, though there’s a host of neurological and evolutionary justifications for that as well.

I’m stepping out there and saying that, as a species, these aspects of our humanity are in part what defines our art and culture; our way of relating and defining our taste and tempo.

To me; this is more than about need.
I wouldn’t want a humanity without sorrow or anger.

A very large part of passion is wrapped up in anxiety and loss being overcome, and anxiety and loss are intertwined with suffering.

You can’t have the concept that is wrapped up in the iconic image of “Rocky” without these things.

The net result wouldn’t be human anymore.
It would be something, and pretty interesting, but it wouldn’t be human.